Your thoughts on communism?

[Pandeeria]

I submit you already are for all practical purposes. The only help you need is a constable, a fire department, and an ambulance. Everything else could be handled at the local level. It once was ya know.

We don't need state, maybe. We need national identity for social, uhm, "connections" (not sure if I'm translating that right) and a government to mediate and negotiate policy on the national level. State... I dunno.

What's wrong with a state?

[Kaspias]

Communism is the only ideology that has failed every time but still has people that say it could work

So the evolution of the human race, the discovery of fire, the development of language, and the agrarian revolution count as failures? Because all of them were products of primitive communist societies. Also, communism cannot be said to have failed in the Paris Commune, Anarchist Catalonia, or the Free Territory as it was extinguished by superior military force and not internal circumstance. Communism has been the most common form of government in human history and continues to exist in the modern world.

so because it worked in primitive tribes it will work in developed nations? nothing left to argue here, and the Paris Commune existed for 10 days, quite a pathetic argument

[Clone Creatures]

Nonsense, it isn't idealistic at all. Most people's only encounter with government is at the end of night stick or the threat of that, if not worse. Rarely has any government been of any assistance, and considering what I am compelled to surrender to it, mostly to murder people far away with robotic airplanes, well I don't have much use
for them, especially when they start to make veiled threats against their own populations.

In the last century something like 300 million people have democided. Murdered by their own goverments.
You're more likely to murdered by your own government, or one of their mercenaries, than by an invader or
a criminal. Who needs them? They only serve corporate sponsors and they are enslaving the people of the planet.

What is your alternative?

Well you're living in anarchy right now, just that it's corporate sponsored and ruled anarchy. The solution is obvious.
Outlaw lobbyists, prosecute for racketeering under the existing statutes, break up organized business, out law unions because they were the inspiration behind the whole damn thing. Those would be good starts.

[Duvniask]

So the evolution of the human race, the discovery of fire, the development of language, and the agrarian revolution count as failures? Because all of them were products of primitive communist societies. Also, communism cannot be said to have failed in the Paris Commune, Anarchist Catalonia, or the Free Territory as it was extinguished by superior military force and not internal circumstance. Communism has been the most common form of government in human history and continues to exist in the modern world.

so because it worked in primitive tribes it will work in developed nations? nothing left to argue here, and the Paris Commune existed for 10 days, quite a pathetic argument

You argued, that it has failed every time, and you have obviously just been proven wrong. Also, you forgot Anarchist Catalonia and Free Territory, conveniently.

There are plenty more example where that came from.

[4years]

So the evolution of the human race, the discovery of fire, the development of language, and the agrarian revolution count as failures? Because all of them were products of primitive communist societies. Also, communism cannot be said to have failed in the Paris Commune, Anarchist Catalonia, or the Free Territory as it was extinguished by superior military force and not internal circumstance. Communism has been the most common form of government in human history and continues to exist in the modern world.

If it can easily be conquered like that, that's all the more reason why it doesn't work.

Easily conquered?

Paris Commune: One city against all of France with Prussian armies supporting the French government and it held out for months.

Anarchist Catalonia: Part of Spain involved in a civil war against Franco with Germany and Italy both actively supporting Franco. Plus the official Republican government and the USSR stabbed Catalonia in the back a few times for good measure. Yet is held out for years.

Free Territory: First fought off the whites then held out against the USSR for years and it was a little chunk of the Ukraine.

[Pandeeria]

What is your alternative?

Well you're living in anarchy right now, just that it's corporate sponsored and ruled anarchy. The solution is obvious.
Outlaw lobbyists, prosecute for racketeering under the existing statutes, break up organized business, out law unions because they were the inspiration behind the whole damn thing. Those would be good starts.

Those would be terriable starts to a horrible thing.

[Kaspias]

so because it worked in primitive tribes it will work in developed nations? nothing left to argue here, and the Paris Commune existed for 10 days, quite a pathetic argument

You argued, that it has failed every time, and you have obviously just been proven wrong. Also, you forgot Anarchist Catalonia and Free Territory, conveniently.

There are plenty more example where that came from.

somebody else addressed those two, I guess you conveniently missed it

[Pandeeria]

If it can easily be conquered like that, that's all the more reason why it doesn't work.

Easily conquered?

Paris Commune: One city against all of France with Prussian armies supporting the French government and it held out for months.

Anarchist Catalonia: Part of Spain involved in a civil war against Franco with Germany and Italy both actively supporting Franco. Plus the official Republican government and the USSR stabbed Catalonia in the back a few times for good measure. Yet is held out for years.

Free Territory: First fought off the whites then held out against the USSR for years and it was a little chunk of the Ukraine.

Were they not conquered?

[Clone Creatures]

We don't need state, maybe. We need national identity for social, uhm, "connections" (not sure if I'm translating that right) and a government to mediate and negotiate policy on the national level. State... I dunno.

What's wrong with a state?

Americans had no problems with invading British in two invasions, but we need a Global Identity. Like what? The Chinese people who crushed rocks with their bare hands to make runways for B-29 Bombers are now suddenly different people who what to skewer me with a bayonet? No.

Ever hear of the Central Bank and Warfare Model? Katherine Austin Fitts is credited with that term. This is what has ruled the planet. It's a game, and we are the pawns.

[Duvniask]

You argued, that it has failed every time, and you have obviously just been proven wrong. Also, you forgot Anarchist Catalonia and Free Territory, conveniently.

There are plenty more example where that came from.

somebody else addressed those two, I guess you conveniently missed it

Addressing*, and 4years is already arguing against them.
Doesn't change the fact, that your original claim was wrong.

[Pandeeria]

What's wrong with a state?

Americans had no problems with invading British in two invasions, but we need a Global Identity. Like what? The Chinese people who crushed rocks with their bare hands to make runways for B-29 Bombers are now suddenly different people who what to skewer me with a bayonet? No.

Ever hear of the Central Bank and Warfare Model? Katherine Austin Fitts is credited with that term. This is what has ruled the planet. It's a game, and we are the pawns.

What are you getting at exactly?

[4years]

So the evolution of the human race, the discovery of fire, the development of language, and the agrarian revolution count as failures? Because all of them were products of primitive communist societies. Also, communism cannot be said to have failed in the Paris Commune, Anarchist Catalonia, or the Free Territory as it was extinguished by superior military force and not internal circumstance. Communism has been the most common form of government in human history and continues to exist in the modern world.

1. so because it worked in primitive tribes it will work in developed nations? nothing left to argue here, and 2. the Paris Commune existed for 10 days, quite a pathetic argument

1. I said nothing of the sort, I have separate the arguments for why it would work in developed nations after the socialist transitional period. That was just to prove he claim that it "always failed" wrong.

2. The Commune lasted months, not days.

[The Norgan Alliance]

Americans had no problems with invading British in two invasions, but we need a Global Identity. Like what? The Chinese people who crushed rocks with their bare hands to make runways for B-29 Bombers are now suddenly different people who what to skewer me with a bayonet? No.

Ever hear of the Central Bank and Warfare Model? Katherine Austin Fitts is credited with that term. This is what has ruled the planet. It's a game, and we are the pawns.

What are you getting at exactly?

Tin-foil-hat-verified truth.

[Clone Creatures]

Well you're living in anarchy right now, just that it's corporate sponsored and ruled anarchy. The solution is obvious.
Outlaw lobbyists, prosecute for racketeering under the existing statutes, break up organized business, out law unions because they were the inspiration behind the whole damn thing. Those would be good starts.

Those would be terriable starts to a horrible thing.

Because you happen to be the CEO of Boeing or what? Hello? You want a depression, or worse, civil war?
Capitalism is a dead end, and it isn't even a political ideology. It's a form of economics. Not a way to
rule a nation unless you like fascism of course, because that's what you got pretty much.

Fascism also ends the same way every time. Under the rain of bombs by an outraged world. Think about it.

[Kaspias]

somebody else addressed those two, I guess you conveniently missed it

Addressing*, and 4years is already arguing against them.
Doesn't change the fact, that your original claim was wrong.

you can debate my claim all you want, it won't change the truth, and if you have such a problem with it there's nothing stopping you from joining him

[Tokora]

Personally I am a communist. But I belive it should be TRUELY free religion and a democracy. Communism is meant for the people, not a paranoid dictator or a narcistic oligarch (reffering to Stalin, Mao, and Brezhnev).

[Pandeeria]

1. so because it worked in primitive tribes it will work in developed nations? nothing left to argue here, and 2. the Paris Commune existed for 10 days, quite a pathetic argument

1. I said nothing of the sort, I have separate the arguments for why it would work in developed nations after the socialist transitional period. That was just to prove he claim that it "always failed" wrong.

2. The Commune lasted months, not days.

The commune lasted 10 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

[Independent Islands]

On pen and paper communism sounds like a good idea, but in execution it fails spectacularly.

[Clone Creatures]

What are you getting at exactly?

Tin-foil-hat-verified truth.

Obviously you don't know who she is do you? Then again, I did misspell her name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Austin_Fitts

[The Ben Boys]

An outdated philosophy that should have died with Marx.

[Pandeeria]

Those would be terriable starts to a horrible thing.

Because you happen to be the CEO of Boeing or what? Hello? You want a depression, or worse, civil war?
Capitalism is a dead end, and it isn't even a political ideology. It's a form of economics. Not a way to
rule a nation unless you like fascism of course, because that's what you got pretty much.

Fascism also ends the same way every time. Under the rain of bombs by an outraged world. Think about it.

Outlawing lobbyists and Unions aren't the way to go if worker's rights are in your mind.

I'm pretty sure organized business isn't going to start a civil war.

That is all.

[Gaviski]

I am a believer in Socialism, which does differ from communism.

[Unitaristic Regions]

What's wrong with a state?

Americans had no problems with invading British in two invasions, but we need a Global Identity. Like what? The Chinese people who crushed rocks with their bare hands to make runways for B-29 Bombers are now suddenly different people who what to skewer me with a bayonet? No.

Ever hear of the Central Bank and Warfare Model? Katherine Austin Fitts is credited with that term. This is what has ruled the planet. It's a game, and we are the pawns.

Hmmm, I'm too tired to debate right now, but dude...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

It's good reading.

[4years]

Easily conquered?

Paris Commune: One city against all of France with Prussian armies supporting the French government and it held out for months.

Anarchist Catalonia: Part of Spain involved in a civil war against Franco with Germany and Italy both actively supporting Franco. Plus the official Republican government and the USSR stabbed Catalonia in the back a few times for good measure. Yet is held out for years.

Free Territory: First fought off the whites then held out against the USSR for years and it was a little chunk of the Ukraine.

Were they not conquered?

In time yes.

Is the American defeat in Vietnam proof that the American system doesn't work?
Is the fact that France was crushed in WW2 proof that capitalism doesn't work?
Is the red victory in the Russian civil war proof of Bolshevikism's validity?

Of course not; even if the examples I mentioned were easily defeated and not only vanquished after long bloody struggles your point would be invalid.

[Kaspias]

1. I said nothing of the sort, I have separate the arguments for why it would work in developed nations after the socialist transitional period. That was just to prove he claim that it "always failed" wrong.

2. The Commune lasted months, not days.

The commune lasted 10 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

no point in posting that, communists don't believe in facts