"Santa Claus should be white"

[Mavorpen]

3. All the sources for his inspiration (Sinterklass, Odin, St Nicholas etc) were white

Quote the legends saying that.

[God Kefka]

the presumption is when

1. ALL pictures of him in the pre-modern era show him as white
2. Europeans came up with him
3. All the sources for his inspiration (Sinterklass, Odin, St Nicholas etc) were white

that he is white unless shown otherwise.

3. Definitely not true, St. Nick, Sinterklaas (basically the same thing) and Odin were all attested to be Anatolian.

Saint Nicholas was still a Greek, and Greeks are white.

Odin is a Norse god and is white.

At any rate, by the time he materialized as the Dutch Sinterklauss and the British Father Christmas, he is most certainly WHITE.

[God Kefka]

3. All the sources for his inspiration (Sinterklass, Odin, St Nicholas etc) were white

Quote the legends saying that.[/quote

I've already told you.

1. When ALL pictures of him from before the 1900s show him as white, the presumption is that people understood him to be white unless shown otherwise.

2. When Europeans come up with a legend, the presumption is that the people they describe are white unless explicitly stated otherwise.

3. The Dutch Sinterklauss and other sources that inspired the modern Santa, are white.

[Mavorpen]

3. The Dutch Sinterklauss and other sources that inspired the modern Santa, are white.

Again, legends. Quote them. Now.

[Liberated Dixieland]

Saint Nicholas was still a Greek, and Greeks are white.

Odin is a Norse god and is white.

At any rate, by the time he materialized as the Dutch Sinterklauss and the British Father Christmas, he is most certainly WHITE.

Actually he was most certainly NOT REAL and thus capable of being "materialized" however any culture wanted to.

Look, the Dutch Sinterklauss changed the portrayal of Nicolas from how he had always been portrayed before! It's a desecration of the myth! Only the very original stories of Saint Nicolas from Anatolia are valid, the rest have altered the portrayal, just like altering the race does!

[The Godly Nations]

3. All the sources for his inspiration (Sinterklass, Odin, St Nicholas etc) were white

Quote the legends saying that.

Gesta Danorum, Saxo Grammaticus:

"But the gods, whose chief seat was then at Byzantium,seeing that Odin had tarnished the fair name of godhead by diverse injuries to its majesty, thought that he ought to be removed from their society. And they had him not only ousted from the headship, but outlawed and stripped of all worship and honour at home..."

He then latter recounts how Odin moves up north and set himself up as a peddling magicians, gaining, through trickery, the worship of the northerners.


One source for Odin's being Anatolian.

[The Godly Nations]

Saint Nicholas was still a Greek, and Greeks are white.

Greek, at that time, had very little racial connotation, and was used to mean the Greek Cultural World, of which Alexandria in Eygpt, Anatolia, and parts of North Africa, was part. He certainly wasn't white.

Odin is a Norse god and is white.

But the gods, whose chief seat was then at Byzantium, seeing that Odin had tarnished the fair name of godhead by divers injuries to its majesty, thought that he ought to be removed from their society. And they had him not only ousted from the headship, but outlawed and stripped of all worship and honour at home...
-Saxo Grammaticus, Gesta Danorum

At any rate, by the time he materialized as the Dutch Sinterklauss and the British Father Christmas, he is most certainly WHITE.

Father Christmas was not white as he was simply a athromorphic representation of Christmas,

Sinterklaas was simply Saint Nicholas, the name itself being a Dutch corruption, as is evident, thus he is anatolian.

[God Kefka]

Quote the legends saying that.

Gesta Danorum, Saxo Grammaticus:

"But the gods, whose chief seat was then at Byzantium,seeing that Odin had tarnished the fair name of godhead by diverse injuries to its majesty, thought that he ought to be removed from their society. And they had him not only ousted from the headship, but outlawed and stripped of all worship and honour at home..."

He then latter recounts how Odin moves up north and set himself up as a peddling magicians, gaining, through trickery, the worship of the northerners.


One source for Odin's being Anatolian.

it does not explicitly say he was non-white, just that his seat of power was in Byzantium. And Byzantium has for hundreds of years been ruled by the Eastern Roman Empire which was led by whites.

[God Kefka]

Saint Nicholas was still a Greek, and Greeks are white.

Greek, at that time, had very little racial connotation, and was used to mean the Greek Cultural World, of which Alexandria in Eygpt, Anatolia, and parts of North Africa, was part. He certainly wasn't white.

Odin is a Norse god and is white.

But the gods, whose chief seat was then at Byzantium, seeing that Odin had tarnished the fair name of godhead by divers injuries to its majesty, thought that he ought to be removed from their society. And they had him not only ousted from the headship, but outlawed and stripped of all worship and honour at home...
-Saxo Grammaticus, Gesta Danorum

At any rate, by the time he materialized as the Dutch Sinterklauss and the British Father Christmas, he is most certainly WHITE.

Father Christmas was not white as he was simply a athromorphic representation of Christmas,

Sinterklaas was simply Saint Nicholas, the name itself being a Dutch corruption, as is evident, thus he is anatolian.

It is non-material that ''Greeks'' back then were not considered white. It is material that he WAS Greek and that TODAY we would consider Greeks whites. His physical appearance, being attributed to those of a Greek, would have been white in appearance back then even if people back then did not label such a set of physical appearance as white.

the material facts are that Father Christmas AND Sinterklaas are the most recent interpretations before the cannonical Santa was born (arguably, Father Christmas was the canonical Santa).

Both of these were conceived by Europeans and all visual depictions of these two specific figures in their historical era...

HAVE BEEN WHITE

A picture is greater than a thousand words, and all of them have shown a white Father Christmas.

[Mavorpen]

A picture is greater than a thousand words, and all of them have shown a white Father Christmas.

No they haven't.

[God Kefka]

A picture is greater than a thousand words, and all of them have shown a white Father Christmas.

No they haven't.

the date of this picture?

[Mavorpen]

No they haven't.

the date of this picture?

There is none.

[God Kefka]

the date of this picture?

There is none.

exactly... it's non-canon... all pre-modern pictures of Santa and ESPECIALLY the ones around the time of the conception of Father Christmas such as the ones wikipedia...

shown him to be white. THAT my friend is the key...

[Gauthier]

Because Santa is a representation of joy, giving, etc.

And apparently a black person can't represent those things because only white people are the one true master race.

Does it have to be represented by a black person, though? Is it that ungodly important?

Again, I am stating my thought: Santa should become a fucking polar bear. There is no possible way that any race can bitch about it after that.

"Fucking furries are trying to anthromorphize Santa!"

[Mavorpen]

exactly... it's non-canon...

None of them are.

Since, you know, there isn't a Santa Claus book of canon.

[Reddogkeno101]

"Santa should be what he is and what he is is white"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XYlJqf4dLI

So it appears that not only is a major media news outlet claiming that a Turkish bishop is, and should be, white, but also that jesus was white, and that these two factually incorrect things are in some way related.

She also infers that black people are all liars about racial issues. Which isn't surprising.

So NSG, this may seem irrelevant, but it opens up quite a few opportunities for debate:

1: Do you think that we should start to see black representations of Santa in popular culture?
2: Is wanting black representations of Santa in popular culture "racist", or just lobbying?
3: Is the "war on christmas" a legitimate political standpoint?
4: Generally, what are your views on black vs. white representations of popular culture figures in modern culture?


My views, in order:

1: I think it wouldn't hurt. Honestly can't remember the last time I saw black santa, black jesus, black easter bunny, etc.
2: I don't think so, no.
3: I don't think so, and this video almost extremizes the point to the verge of laughability.
4: I think it's heavily skewed towards the white, and that this should be remedies.

So NSG, what you say?

As some one said, Saint Nicholas was not Turkish, he was Greek. He would have been a tanned colour, so a bit of both. But honestly, they should stop with Santa, it's bad enough lying to your kids, but worse still that it is a religious event taking huge significance world wide in secular nations.

[God Kefka]

exactly... it's non-canon...

None of them are.

Since, you know, there isn't a Santa Claus book of canon.

when you look at the all the recognized and surviving pictures of Santa (such as some of the ones on wikipedia) from before the 1900s you find they all have one thing in common...

He's white.

Hence, Santa has always been white. It doesn't get any simpler. I could repeat my assertion that it's safe to assume he's white because he's a European legendary figure and cite that presumption (white unless shown otherwise) but it's just extra stuff at this point.

It's blatantly obvious, just look at all the pictures. Go on the street and ask people to describe what they think Santa Claus looks like. Over 99% of people will say a white old man with a beard in red and white suit. That's been the case for hundreds of years... He's always been white...

[God Kefka]

exactly... it's non-canon...

None of them are.

Since, you know, there isn't a Santa Claus book of canon.

all the pictures of Santa Claus from before the modern age and especially the ones around the conception and height of the Father Christmas character... show him to be white.

That says enough... go on wikipedia and tell me what you see. White old men all over...

[New Octopucta]

As some one said, Saint Nicholas was not Turkish, he was Greek. He would have been a tanned colour, so a bit of both. But honestly, they should stop with Santa, it's bad enough lying to your kids, but worse still that it is a religious event taking huge significance world wide in secular nations.

Christmas isn't a religious event unless you want it to be. Drive through a suburb and see how many references there are to the religious form of Christmas versus the secular form.

[Mavorpen]

when you look at the all the recognized and surviving pictures of Santa (such as some of the ones on wikipedia) from before the 1900s you find they all have one thing in common...

He's white.

And still no legends actually saying so.

Over 99% of people will say a white old man with a beard in red and white suit. That's been the case for hundreds of years...

Stop lying. No red suit to be found.

He's always been white...

Wrong.

But it's good to see you own up to your racism. Keep up the good fight.

[Lunamyst]

Some people sure seem to act like it...

I think the point that was trying to be made was that African American children find it odd when the image of white Santa is forced down their throat and thus makes it less relatable to them, so they should be able to see Santa depicted as a black man if they want.

I just got a movie idea!

I don't think it'll beat Exploding Penguins 3.

I don't see how white santa is forced down anyone's throat when he has been depicted as white since forever. Come to think of it, I've never in my life heard of a single black man complaining about santa being white. I'm pretty sure this whole issue was made by some white multiculturalist liberals trying to bring up a new issue that doesn't matter.

[Mavorpen]

all the pictures of Santa Claus from before the modern age and especially the ones around the conception and height of the Father Christmas character... show him to be white.

That says enough... go on wikipedia and tell me what you see. White old men all over...

We get it, you don't like black people.

[The Godly Nations]

Gesta Danorum, Saxo Grammaticus:

"But the gods, whose chief seat was then at Byzantium,seeing that Odin had tarnished the fair name of godhead by diverse injuries to its majesty, thought that he ought to be removed from their society. And they had him not only ousted from the headship, but outlawed and stripped of all worship and honour at home..."

He then latter recounts how Odin moves up north and set himself up as a peddling magicians, gaining, through trickery, the worship of the northerners.


One source for Odin's being Anatolian.

it does not explicitly say he was non-white, just that his seat of power was in Byzantium. And Byzantium has for hundreds of years been ruled by the Eastern Roman Empire which was led by whites.

It states explicitly that he was not European (therefore not white), and this confirms with what is recounted in the Volunspa, that Odin and the Aesirs migrated north and fought with the Vanirs, with whom they eventually established peace.

Second, the Eastern Roman Empire was not white, nor was it 'ruled by whites'. As stated above, it was located in the Eastern Portion of the Roman Empire (by and by mostly covering Asia), and Leo III the Isaurian, for example, was himself a Syrian.

[Mavorpen]

Come to think of it, I've never in my life heard of a single black man complaining about santa being white.

Evidently you don't meet any in real life.

[Lunamyst]

Come to think of it, I've never in my life heard of a single black man complaining about santa being white.

Evidently you don't meet any in real life.

being from seattle I've met plenty.