"Santa Claus should be white"

[Mavorpen]

Still waiting on that legend.

it's common sense that he can change his clothes. It's not common sense that he can change his race. The first is assumed by canon, the second must be established by canon (in fact, the canon contradicts it because he's always white).

Just like common sense would assume that wizards in Harry Potter use the bathroom (unless proven otherwise). It's a common sense presumption. HOWEVER, if you are asserting wizards can teleport between galaxies... THEN you need proof.

Still waiting on that legend.

[New Bierstaat]

Why should Santa be white? He's from the North Pole, of course, and in the North Pole, they couldn't possibly get enough sunlight to make his skin dark.

Jesus was an Arab, he wasn't white. He was born in what is now Palestine. Let's be realistic about this.

[God Kefka]

The ability to change clothes and quit smoking is assumed. That's why you barely ever see books saying, "He could change his clothes, like everyone else in the world!".

Of course not.

Because they actually say they changed their clothes.

If he could change his race, it would have to be mentioned, or he can't do it. That's because it's not assumed.

If he could change his clothes, it would have been mentioned, or he can't do it. That's because it's not assumed.

no... changing clothes doesn't need to be mentioned because it is an assumed capability of all human-like beings.

If you assert that Santa can magically change his race, THAT needs proof.

As such, there is no such proof. Hence, Santa is white and remains white. Use common sense...

[Siaos]

The ability to change clothes and quit smoking is assumed. That's why you barely ever see books saying, "He could change his clothes, like everyone else in the world!".

Of course not.

Because they actually say they changed their clothes.

If he could change his race, it would have to be mentioned, or he can't do it. That's because it's not assumed.

If he could change his clothes, it would have been mentioned, or he can't do it. That's because it's not assumed.

So Harry Potter can't go to the bathroom and Luke Skywalker doesn't know how to eat or sleep?

I give up, you are completely ignoring common sense because your refuse to admit you're wrong on even the most basic facts. In fact, I bet you'll just quote this and say something like, "I accept this concession of defeat"

[God Kefka]

Why should Santa be white? He's from the North Pole, of course, and in the North Pole, they couldn't possibly get enough sunlight to make his skin dark.

Jesus was an Arab, he wasn't white. He was born in what is now Palestine. Let's be realistic about this.

That's EXACTLY what I want to hear... that's EXACTLY what i want to hear...

Santa has to be white. If you want a different character with a different race, put the effort into writing him up. Don't ruin Santa...

[Mavorpen]

no... changing clothes doesn't need to be mentioned because it is an assumed capability of all human-like beings.

Yes it does.

Which is why most books actually do that.

If you assert that Santa can magically change his race, THAT needs prove.

No, it doesn't.

As such, there is no such proof. Hence, Santa is white and remains white. Use common sense...

Still don't have that legend, eh?

[Aeken]

Why should Santa be white? He's from the North Pole, of course, and in the North Pole, they couldn't possibly get enough sunlight to make his skin dark.

Jesus was an Arab, he wasn't white. He was born in what is now Palestine. Let's be realistic about this.

That's EXACTLY what I want to hear... that's EXACTLY what i want to hear...

Santa has to be white. If you want a different character with a different race, put the effort into writing him up. Don't ruin Santa...

Changing his race doesn't change what he stands for. It doesn't ruin anything.

[Mavorpen]

So Harry Potter can't go to the bathroom and Luke Skywalker doesn't know how to eat or sleep?

Considering all of those people were said in their stories to do those things, no.

I give up, you are completely ignoring common sense because your refuse to admit you're wrong on even the most basic facts. In fact, I bet you'll just quote this and say something like, "I accept this concession of defeat"

So do you have the legend or not?

[God Kefka]

no... changing clothes doesn't need to be mentioned because it is an assumed capability of all human-like beings.

Yes it does.

Which is why most books actually do that.

If you assert that Santa can magically change his race, THAT needs prove.

No, it doesn't.

As such, there is no such proof. Hence, Santa is white and remains white. Use common sense...

Still don't have that legend, eh?

Mavorpen, you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Mavorpen]

Yes it does.

Which is why most books actually do that.

No, it doesn't.

Still don't have that legend, eh?

Mavorpen, you are being deliberately obtuse.

No, I'm asking you for a source for your silly claims.

You've claimed there are "legends" that explicitly state Santa is white. Where are they?

[God Kefka]

Mavorpen, you are being deliberately obtuse.

No, I'm asking you for a source for your silly claims.

You've claimed there are "legends" that explicitly state Santa is white. Where are they?

I've just told you its a common sense presumption in fiction that all human-like beings can what they wear and change their habits unless shown otherwise.

it is not a common sense presumption that characters can just change their race...

Santa is white. Someone else just gave you a good list...

[Mavorpen]

No, I'm asking you for a source for your silly claims.

You've claimed there are "legends" that explicitly state Santa is white. Where are they?

I've just told you its a common sense presumption in fiction that all human-like beings can what they wear and change their habits unless shown otherwise.

it is not a common sense presumption that characters can just change their race...

Santa is white.

So you don't have the legends and are lying.

Cool.

[The Godly Nations]

Anatolians were essentially white. They had some middle-eastern mixed in, but they looked caucasian.

No, no they don't.

Source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas

Baam.

Who is always displayed as a white male

Bam, black father Christmas

He is the spirit of a white man, from the looks of it. Probably a king.

The Christmas Carol is a text. Whatever the original illustration looks like, it has no bearing on the text itself.

Source? And considering he was worshipped in Scandinavia, it's liable he's white.

Considering that the Danish Saxo-Grammaticus, in his Gesto Danorum, wrote the following:

But the gods, whose chief seat was then at Byzantium, seeing that Odin had tarnished the fair name of godhead by divers injuries to its majesty, thought that he ought to be removed from their society. And they had him not only ousted from the headship, but outlawed and stripped of all worship and honour at home...

So we resolved Odin's ethnicity as well, Anatolian, just like St. Nick, and so ain't fucking white.

Considering it's probably to look good and multi-cultural, not really, no.
Also, he's not aryan. Aryans have blonde hair and blue eyes.

Doesn't your white Santa have blue eyes? The blondness could have turn white with age.

So, really, if you don't want to hold on to the Coca Cola standard, you are just insisting on a white Santa because you are a racist.

[God Kefka]

I've just told you its a common sense presumption in fiction that all human-like beings can what they wear and change their habits unless shown otherwise.

it is not a common sense presumption that characters can just change their race...

Santa is white.

So you don't have the legends and are lying.

Cool.

Go do a wikipedia search and tell me where on earth Santa is not white in the old legends... he has always been white.

[Saruhan]

Odin, a white God who contributed to Father Christmas and Sinterklaas after Christianization.

Odin was associated with Mercury, who was associated with the Egyptian Thoth. Therefore, he is liable to be North African.

But this isn't really true. As the Norse and Greeks were originally from the same base Indo-European groups, their religions share similarities. A sky god, father of everything, twin sun god and moon goddess, the gods of rivers and creatures within nature, etc. The connection between Thoth and Hermes (if there even is one, considering Thoth was a god of writing and justice whereas Hermes/Mercury was a god of messengers and travelers mostly) came later with greek and Egyptian trade of ideas and culture along with economic trade and was really only shared by Greeks and Egyptians, as the Germanic pagans wouldn't have had much contact with them.

Even then, Odin was the Norse's Zeus and Dievas and Perun rather than Hermes. Hermes was more of a Loki of the Greeks

[Mavorpen]

I just want to emphasize how silly this argument is. Apparently Santa Claus can't change his race. He can break the laws of physics by going to every single house in one night. He can change his mass to fit down any chimney. He can magically monitor every child on Earth. He can sneak through house undetectable.

But he can't change his skin color or facial features?

This is seriously like arguing that Superman can't move Mars because he's never been shown to. Yet, we've seen him move the Earth in comics and thus can infer based off of that other feats. And if you seriously want to argue that Santa is incapable of changing his race but also capable of demolishing the laws of physics, well, that sounds like a personal problem.

[Mavorpen]

So you don't have the legends and are lying.

Cool.

Go do a wikipedia search and tell me where on earth Santa is not white in the old legends... he has always been white.

Quote the legend. And cite it. Specifically where it explicitly states he is white.

[God Kefka]

I just want to emphasize how silly this argument is. Apparently Santa Claus can't change his race. He can break the laws of physics by going to every single house in one night. He can change his mass to fit down any chimney. He can magically monitor every child on Earth. He can sneak through house undetectable.

But he can't change his skin color or facial features?

This is seriously like arguing that Superman can't move Mars because he's never been shown to. Yet, we've seen him move the Earth in comics and thus can infer based off of that other feats. And if you seriously want to argue that Santa is incapable of changing his race but also capable of demolishing the laws of physics, well, that sounds like a personal problem.

when you are dealing with magic... you can only assume that a character HAS certain magical capabilities IF it is shown that he has them in a cannonical work.

when you are dealing with everyday non-magical capabilities like using the toilet and changing clothes, the common sense presumption is that all human-like beings can do them unless explicitly shown in a work of cannonical nature that he or she can't.

Got it?

I'm surprised I have to outline these basic principles to you.

So as it stands, Santa is shown to be white. It has not been shown that he can change his race... hence in the canon, he cannot do so and so is and remains WHITE.

The works of canon do not (none of them do) suggest that Santa can't change his clothes or change his habits (which by common sense presumption rule, it is assumed he can do both unless shown otherwise). So according to cannon, he can change his clothes and change his habits. Common sense much?

[Mavorpen]

when you are dealing with magic... you can only assume that a character HAS certain magical capabilities IF it is shown that he has them in a cannonical work.

Uh... that's not how it works at all. Every person that's actually reads a work like a comic or a manga knows that's not at all how it works. There are two things you need to make inferences about what a character can do: hype and notable feats.

Notable feats is more applicable here. When you want to determine whether a character can do something, you need to find out if the character has done something that requires more power, skill, etc. than something else than what you're claiming that they can do. Since demolishing the laws of physics, changing your mass, being able to see every child in the world at once, etc. are all feats that require more power than changing your race, it's easy to infer he can do so.

Also, still waiting on those legends.

[The Godly Nations]

Odin was associated with Mercury, who was associated with the Egyptian Thoth. Therefore, he is liable to be North African.

But this isn't really true. As the Norse and Greeks were originally from the same base Indo-European groups, their religions share similarities. A sky god, father of everything, twin sun god and moon goddess, the gods of rivers and creatures within nature, etc. The connection between Thoth and Hermes (if there even is one, considering Thoth was a god of writing and justice whereas Hermes/Mercury was a god of messengers and travelers mostly) came later with greek and Egyptian trade of ideas and culture along with economic trade.

Even then, Odin was the Norse's Zeus and Dievas and Perun than Hermes. Hermes was more of a Loki of the Greeks

If you did some research, you would find that it is Thor, not Odin, who is associated with Zeus. Odin, being the God of Magic, Witchcraft, and Runes, was associated with Mercury, the God of Magic, Witchcraft, and Writing, who was, in turn, linked with Thoth, the God of Magic, Witchcraft, and Writing, (both of whom were latter incorporated into a semi-mystical figure of Hermes Trismegistus). Tactitus, I believe, made the Comparison first, and it would make sense, in that Mercury and Odin were, in a sense, both Trickster figures, and Odin displays this most prominently in his bullying Flyting with Thor in Hárbarðsljóð.

[Greed and Death]

Shouldn't he be Inuit.

[The Godly Nations]

Shouldn't he be Inuit.

How about we just have a blank sheet of paper for everyone to draw their own fucking Santa. He can wear whatever he want, be whatever race, and this will please not only Saois and God Kefka, who insist on a pure Ayran Santa, but also everyone else.

[Mavorpen]

Shouldn't he be Inuit.

Actually he should be a waterbender.

And they don't look white to me.

[God Kefka]

when you are dealing with magic... you can only assume that a character HAS certain magical capabilities IF it is shown that he has them in a cannonical work.

Uh... that's not how it works at all. Every person that's actually reads a work like a comic or a manga knows that's not at all how it works. There are two things you need to make inferences about what a character can do: hype and notable feats.

Notable feats is more applicable here. When you want to determine whether a character can do something, you need to find out if the character has done something that requires more power, skill, etc. than something else than what you're claiming that they can do. Since demolishing the laws of physics, changing your mass, being able to see every child in the world at once, etc. are all feats that require more power than changing your race, it's easy to infer he can do so.

Also, still waiting on those legends.

there's a reason why EVERY bloody picture of him on the wikipedia page depicts a white man.

Also, if you read the whole article, the source of the legend is clearly European. The presumption with Europeans is that when they are looking at people like St. Nick, Odin, Sinterklass and Father Christmas... they have a white man in mind unless shown otherwise.

People in China don't have mythical figures that we assume are white or black unless they expressly state so.

With myths, the presumption is that the people who come up with them see the figures as being of their own race... UNLESS explicitly shown otherwise.

Therefore, because they all came from Europe, they are white unless shown otherwise.

Plus, as you can see from wikipedia and pretty much all depictions of him from prior to the 1900s... he has ALWAYS been shown as white.

[Hathradic States]

I just want to emphasize how silly this argument is. Apparently Santa Claus can't change his race. He can break the laws of physics by going to every single house in one night. He can change his mass to fit down any chimney. He can magically monitor every child on Earth. He can sneak through house undetectable.

But he can't change his skin color or facial features?

This is seriously like arguing that Superman can't move Mars because he's never been shown to. Yet, we've seen him move the Earth in comics and thus can infer based off of that other feats. And if you seriously want to argue that Santa is incapable of changing his race but also capable of demolishing the laws of physics, well, that sounds like a personal problem.

I'm still wondering why a black/white/other race Santa is so important. Christ on his fucking rotting cross, does the colour of a mythical man matter?