"Santa Claus should be white"

[Gulf of Nungfienrt]

You could say Santa is all ethnicity's but he appears as white because it is also the color of snow. Not the skin itself but the name of the skin.

[Nervium]

You could say Santa is all ethnicity but he appears as white because it is also the color of snow. Not the skin itself but the name of the skin.

I've never heard anyone describe me as snowman.

[United British Union]

I think I spent too much time off Nationstates. I find myself looking around in horrified incredulity and wondering who the hell could actually care about something so ridiculous.

I thought Fox News' piece on it was pretty funny, though, but Jon Stewart's reaction to it was even funnier.

Here here!

[Gulf of Nungfienrt]

You could say Santa is all ethnicity but he appears as white because it is also the color of snow. Not the skin itself but the name of the skin.

I've never heard anyone describe me as snowman.

Neither have I am just listing a compromise.

[Immoren]

You could say Santa is all ethnicity but he appears as white because it is also the color of snow. Not the skin itself but the name of the skin.

Santa is an anthropomorphic personification of winter solstice and new year. Thus his appearance is shaped by people's beliefs about him.

[Immoren]

You could say Santa is all ethnicity but he appears as white because it is also the color of snow. Not the skin itself but the name of the skin.

I've never heard anyone describe me as snowman.

Yer the Hogfather.

[Gulf of Nungfienrt]

You could say Santa is all ethnicity but he appears as white because it is also the color of snow. Not the skin itself but the name of the skin.

Santa is an anthropomorphic personification of winter solstice and new year. Thus his appearance is shaped by people's beliefs about him.

That could work as well, IMO if people have a big issue with whatever he is, just put a mask on him and then people can use their imagination to picture him.

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

Dear God! Why does it matter?

Because God Kefka is an idol-worshiping white supremacist who officially founded the Church of Santa on this thread. God will be pissed.

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

One of these, you say?

If Tseng didn't look like this, he isn't canon.

You could saw someone's head off with those graphics.

If Heidegger isn't as fat as portrayed in FFVII, he ain't no goddamn canon, boy.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Dear God! Why does it matter?

Because God Kefka is an idol-worshiping white supremacist who officially founded the Church of Santa on this thread. God will be pissed.

God Kefka is right, according the Nazi Occultist, the Pure Aryan race comes from the far north, an ancient civilisation called "Thule" or "Hyperborea", invented back when the greeks just put random names onto imaginary lands, that was so north, it is even more north than north, which is also where Santa is said to be. Therefore, Santa is a pure Aryan ubermensch.

[God Kefka]

Santa Claus is definitely white.

His modern, canonical incarnation was not born until ALL of the sources of inspiration including the British Father Christmas were incorporated into it (along with St. Nicholas, Sinterklass and so on).

The material factor is... by that point in history, when the canon was just formed... what did the majority of the people imagine? They universally imagined and depicted Santa as a white man.

Therefore... he has been white for hundreds of years and it has formed the basis for the modern canonical tradition. A lot of you are focusing on the wrong things such as was Odin white or was St Nicholas white. This doesn't matter. What matters is... WHEN the modern canonical Santa was first formed and since then starting from some point perhaps in the eighteenth or nineteenth century (having incorporated all elements including traits from the British Father Christmas)... WHAT did the majority of believers, tale-tellers, and artists depict and imagine Santa as? Clearly... white. It doesn't matter if this is based on some misunderstanding that St Nicholas was white or not what matters is what is believed and what forms the popular imagination. And in that eurocentric age and in that age of colonization and warfare... you will not convince me that people in western europe, where this myth was born and finalized, were imagining Santas that were anything but white. Certainly, all the artwork depicted caucasian features. Hence this is what I mean by saying Santa was always white. To prove this, I don't need to show that St Nick was white or that Odin was white. I just need to show that since the day the modern Santa Claus was born the overwhelming consensus... the OVERWHELMING European concensus and thus the foundation for the modern canon, has always incontrovertibly been the image of a WHITE Santa Claus.

People in the 18th and 19th century when the canon was finally born (having sufficiently absorbed elements of Father Christmas, Sinterklass, St NIck and other influential figures to form a RECOGNIZABLE face of the modern Santa Claus canon) were not scientifically trying to determine what race any of these people were to decide on a race. No, they just arbitrarily decided that it was going to be white. Since this is art and this is fiction, that is what is material. What did the founders of the canon imagine? When the modern legend was born... WHAT was in the minds of consensus of believers? And in that day and age of imperialism and eurocentrism in Western Europe, they were imagining white Santas.

Throughout modern history this has continued to form a rich and respectable artistic tradition. Even when America benevolently inherited the legacy and carried it on, their alterations never touched on the issue of race. Santa has always been a western European legend and America respected that. He has been always been overwhelmingly depicted as white and thus the whiteness is a fundemental part of his depiction... to deny this is to deny reality I have to say.

Yes there are off-shoots and different depictions in other parts of the world but these are non-canon... these are responses to the European canon and not part of the canon. The canon I insist, was born in Western Europe and it's what these original creators imagined that matters. And in the 19th and 18th century when the British Father Christmas was finally considered, looking at all the historical, social and cultural factors of the day in Western Europe and all the artwork from the era and ethos of the day... it is self-evident that white Santas were at the time universally imagined.

This tradition is sacred and can no longer be altered because it forms such a great artistic legacy and has (thankfully) left such a deep mark on the minds of everyone.

Even to this day this is the popular image. The European roots are respected and Santa's whiteness remained. A simple google search will suffice to tell you what the popular image of Santa is in the heads of remaining believers. If you were to go out into the Western world and write this survey (''Describe Santa Claus as you imagine him using as many descriptors as you can'') you will undoubtedly get almost 99% mention of ''whiteness'' or ''Caucasian'' where race is mentioned.

To assume that Santa is color-blind or somehow a multicultural legacy is to deny a very European legacy and to alter an artistic legacy to the cultural detriment of mankind.

Hence Santa Claus has been and shall always remain white.

[Tekania]

Ok, irrespective of the fact that St. Nicholas was white (which lets face it; he was), I think it's somewhat hypocritical of the author of the slate article to demand we make Santa black so as to represent everyone.

If she really feels so alienated by a white santa then why shouldn't Megyn Kelly feel equally alienated by a black one? The entire article is blatant race bait which Fox, unsurprisingly, gulped up like a hungry hippo.

I think before you make comments on an article you should actually fucking read it.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Santa Claus is definitely white.

His modern, canonical incarnation was not born until ALL of the sources of inspiration including the British Father Christmas were incorporated into it (along with St. Nicholas, Sinterklass and so on).

Prove it.

The material factor is... by that point in history, when the canon was just formed... what did the majority of the people imagine? They universally imagined and depicted Santa as a white man.

Therefore... he has been white for hundreds of years and it has formed the basis for the modern canonical tradition. A lot of you are focusing on the wrong things such as was Odin white or was St Nicholas white. This doesn't matter. What matters is... WHEN the modern canonical Santa was first formed and since then starting from some point perhaps in the eighteenth or nineteenth century (having incorporated all elements including traits from the British Father Christmas)... WHAT did the majority of believers, tale-tellers, and artists depict and imagine Santa as? Clearly... white. It doesn't matter if this is based on some misunderstanding that St Nicholas was white or not what matters is what is believed and what forms the popular imagination. And in that eurocentric age and in that age of colonization and warfare... you will not convince me that people in western europe, where this myth was born and finalized, were imagining Santas that were anything but white. Certainly, all the artwork depicted caucasian features. Hence this is what I mean by saying Santa was always white. To prove this, I don't need to show that St Nick was white or that Odin was white. I just need to show that since the day the modern Santa Claus was born the overwhelming consensus... the OVERWHELMING European concensus and thus the foundation for the modern canon, has always incontrovertibly been the image of a WHITE Santa Claus.

They also pictured black people as savage cannibals who are inferior to white men, and Asia as a hoard of murderers, rapists, and theives just waiting to immigrate to America and Europe to spread their vile blood...that is simply canonical...why should what they depict Santa as matter in our modern era when we have moved beyond the idea that sending children down coal mines was the smart thing to do?

People in the 18th and 19th century when the canon was finally born (having sufficiently absorbed elements of Father Christmas, Sinterklass, St NIck and other influential figures to form a RECOGNIZABLE face of the modern Santa Claus canon) were not scientifically trying to determine what race any of these people were to decide on a race. No, they just arbitrarily decided that it was going to be white. Since this is art and this is fiction, that is what is material. What did the founders of the canon imagine? When the modern legend was born... WHAT was in the minds of consensus of believers? And in that day and age of imperialism and eurocentrism in Western Europe, they were imagining white Santas.

And they imagined the heathen Chinee trying to rape white woman at any chance they can get...I guess we should keep this image up for all Chinese men because it is "canonical", am I right?

Throughout modern history this has continued to form a rich and respectable artistic tradition. Even when America benevolently inherited the legacy and carried it on, their alterations never touched on the issue of race. Santa has always been a western European legend and America respected that. He has been always been overwhelmingly depicted as white and thus the whiteness is a fundemental part of his depiction... to deny this is to deny reality I have to say.

We also have a rich, and respected, art tradition of white people dressing up as black men and singing and dancing about how happy they are being "darkies" and inferior to white folks. That is clearly a reason to continue doing so today, right?

Yes there are off-shoots and different depictions in other parts of the world but these are non-canon... these are responses to the European canon and not part of the canon. The canon I insist, was born in Western Europe and it's what these original creators imagined that matters. And in the 19th and 18th century when the British Father Christmas was finally considered, looking at all the historical, social and cultural factors of the day in Western Europe and all the artwork from the era and ethos of the day... it is self-evident that white Santas were at the time universally imagined.

Which implies that there is a canon Santa in the first place, just as there is a canon MacBeth, or a canon Hamlet, or a canon King Lear, who must all be white. That is why there are never any all black, all asian, or all latino production of those plays.

This tradition is sacred and can no longer be altered because it forms such a great artistic legacy and has (thankfully) left such a deep on the minds of everyone.

Somehow, actual religious figures, like Jesus and Mary, are allowed to be protrayed as Asian, Black, White, or Arab, but the sacredness of the race of Father Christmas is beyond adaptation! Sieg Heil!

Even to this day this is the popular image. The European roots are respected and Santa's whiteness remained. A simple google search will suffice to tell you what the popular image of Santa is in the heads of remaining believers. If you were to go out into the Western world and write this survey (''Describe Santa Claus as you imagine him using as many descriptors as you can'') you will undoubtedly get almost 99% mention of ''whiteness'' or ''Caucasian'' where race is mentioned.

To this day, we tend to think of Santa as a fictional anthromorphic representation of the Holiday seasons, and, more specifially, the spirit of giving and generousity during the holiday season.

What is why he must be white, because obviously black people or latino people can be givers...they are all on welfare.

To assume that Santa is color-blind or somehow a multicultural legacy is to deny a very European legacy and to alter an artistic legacy to the cultural detriment of mankind.
Hence Santa Claus has been and shall always remain white.

You forgot to puncuate that with a "Sieg Heil" or a "Heil Hitler". Because Santa is obviously only limited to Europe, and only to White Europe.

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

Santa Claus is definitely white.

His modern, canonical incarnation was not born until ALL of the sources of inspiration including the British Father Christmas were incorporated into it (along with St. Nicholas, Sinterklass and so on).

The material factor is... by that point in history, when the canon was just formed... what did the majority of the people imagine? They universally imagined and depicted Santa as a white man.

Therefore... he has been white for hundreds of years and it has formed the basis for the modern canonical tradition. A lot of you are focusing on the wrong things such as was Odin white or was St Nicholas white. This doesn't matter. What matters is... WHEN the modern canonical Santa was first formed and since then starting from some point perhaps in the eighteenth or nineteenth century (having incorporated all elements including traits from the British Father Christmas)... WHAT did the majority of believers, tale-tellers, and artists depict and imagine Santa as? Clearly... white. It doesn't matter if this is based on some misunderstanding that St Nicholas was white or not what matters is what is believed and what forms the popular imagination. And in that eurocentric age and in that age of colonization and warfare... you will not convince me that people in western europe, where this myth was born and finalized, were imagining Santas that were anything but white. Certainly, all the artwork depicted caucasian features. Hence this is what I mean by saying Santa was always white. To prove this, I don't need to show that St Nick was white or that Odin was white. I just need to show that since the day the modern Santa Claus was born the overwhelming consensus... the OVERWHELMING European concensus and thus the foundation for the modern canon, has always incontrovertibly been the image of a WHITE Santa Claus.

People in the 18th and 19th century when the canon was finally born (having sufficiently absorbed elements of Father Christmas, Sinterklass, St NIck and other influential figures to form a RECOGNIZABLE face of the modern Santa Claus canon) were not scientifically trying to determine what race any of these people were to decide on a race. No, they just arbitrarily decided that it was going to be white. Since this is art and this is fiction, that is what is material. What did the founders of the canon imagine? When the modern legend was born... WHAT was in the minds of consensus of believers? And in that day and age of imperialism and eurocentrism in Western Europe, they were imagining white Santas.

Throughout modern history this has continued to form a rich and respectable artistic tradition. Even when America benevolently inherited the legacy and carried it on, their alterations never touched on the issue of race. Santa has always been a western European legend and America respected that. He has been always been overwhelmingly depicted as white and thus the whiteness is a fundemental part of his depiction... to deny this is to deny reality I have to say.

Yes there are off-shoots and different depictions in other parts of the world but these are non-canon... these are responses to the European canon and not part of the canon. The canon I insist, was born in Western Europe and it's what these original creators imagined that matters. And in the 19th and 18th century when the British Father Christmas was finally considered, looking at all the historical, social and cultural factors of the day in Western Europe and all the artwork from the era and ethos of the day... it is self-evident that white Santas were at the time universally imagined.

This tradition is sacred and can no longer be altered because it forms such a great artistic legacy and has (thankfully) left such a deep mark on the minds of everyone.

Even to this day this is the popular image. The European roots are respected and Santa's whiteness remained. A simple google search will suffice to tell you what the popular image of Santa is in the heads of remaining believers. If you were to go out into the Western world and write this survey (''Describe Santa Claus as you imagine him using as many descriptors as you can'') you will undoubtedly get almost 99% mention of ''whiteness'' or ''Caucasian'' where race is mentioned.

To assume that Santa is color-blind or somehow a multicultural legacy is to deny a very European legacy and to alter an artistic legacy to the cultural detriment of mankind.

Hence Santa Claus has been and shall always remain white.

You have yet to source us this 'Santa' canon even existing and not being just a figment of your imagination.

[ALMF]

If you call this wite (center) I call it turkoman/namibian.
One is objecting to wite only and the other is objecting to a (singular) black santa: see the difference.

What is wite? If you mean WHITE then yes even that photo looks white (tho tanned). Not that it means anything, everyone knows most forensic reconstructions are BS anyway. I remember when the CIA tried to 'reconstruct' Bin Laden to account for age and it wound up seriously pissing off some Spanish politician who looked identical. Then when they actually got him, he didn't look anything like that in any case.

And there is no difference. They are both objecting to Santa being a certain color because they are threatened by people who look different. Not exactly a helpful conversation in terms of healthy racial relations.

1) If we ignore FR we are left with regional characteristics (still deasnt in the 3rd century). For a 3rd century myra we lie between modern turkmens and namibians. That is between
and


2) Governor George Wallace didn't like any people who didn't look like him at University of Alabama. Conversely Thurgood Marshall didn't like that nobody like him was at Sumner Elementary. Wallace was a raciest Marshall was not. Similarly, Aisha Harris was concerned by an overwhelmingly white image; whereas, Megyn Kelly objected to a mix of representations.

[ALMF]

Nelson Mandela was a real person, Santa isn't.


Just like Shakespeare was a real person, and white, but Hamlet isn't, and so can be any race you want him to be.

Yes, but he is St Nicholas. St Nicholas was white...

As has been REPEATEDLY shown, he was not.

[God Kefka]

Santa Claus is definitely white.

His modern, canonical incarnation was not born until ALL of the sources of inspiration including the British Father Christmas were incorporated into it (along with St. Nicholas, Sinterklass and so on).

The material factor is... by that point in history, when the canon was just formed... what did the majority of the people imagine? They universally imagined and depicted Santa as a white man.

Therefore... he has been white for hundreds of years and it has formed the basis for the modern canonical tradition. A lot of you are focusing on the wrong things such as was Odin white or was St Nicholas white. This doesn't matter. What matters is... WHEN the modern canonical Santa was first formed and since then starting from some point perhaps in the eighteenth or nineteenth century (having incorporated all elements including traits from the British Father Christmas)... WHAT did the majority of believers, tale-tellers, and artists depict and imagine Santa as? Clearly... white. It doesn't matter if this is based on some misunderstanding that St Nicholas was white or not what matters is what is believed and what forms the popular imagination. And in that eurocentric age and in that age of colonization and warfare... you will not convince me that people in western europe, where this myth was born and finalized, were imagining Santas that were anything but white. Certainly, all the artwork depicted caucasian features. Hence this is what I mean by saying Santa was always white. To prove this, I don't need to show that St Nick was white or that Odin was white. I just need to show that since the day the modern Santa Claus was born the overwhelming consensus... the OVERWHELMING European concensus and thus the foundation for the modern canon, has always incontrovertibly been the image of a WHITE Santa Claus.

People in the 18th and 19th century when the canon was finally born (having sufficiently absorbed elements of Father Christmas, Sinterklass, St NIck and other influential figures to form a RECOGNIZABLE face of the modern Santa Claus canon) were not scientifically trying to determine what race any of these people were to decide on a race. No, they just arbitrarily decided that it was going to be white. Since this is art and this is fiction, that is what is material. What did the founders of the canon imagine? When the modern legend was born... WHAT was in the minds of consensus of believers? And in that day and age of imperialism and eurocentrism in Western Europe, they were imagining white Santas.

Throughout modern history this has continued to form a rich and respectable artistic tradition. Even when America benevolently inherited the legacy and carried it on, their alterations never touched on the issue of race. Santa has always been a western European legend and America respected that. He has been always been overwhelmingly depicted as white and thus the whiteness is a fundemental part of his depiction... to deny this is to deny reality I have to say.

Yes there are off-shoots and different depictions in other parts of the world but these are non-canon... these are responses to the European canon and not part of the canon. The canon I insist, was born in Western Europe and it's what these original creators imagined that matters. And in the 19th and 18th century when the British Father Christmas was finally considered, looking at all the historical, social and cultural factors of the day in Western Europe and all the artwork from the era and ethos of the day... it is self-evident that white Santas were at the time universally imagined.

This tradition is sacred and can no longer be altered because it forms such a great artistic legacy and has (thankfully) left such a deep mark on the minds of everyone.

Even to this day this is the popular image. The European roots are respected and Santa's whiteness remained. A simple google search will suffice to tell you what the popular image of Santa is in the heads of remaining believers. If you were to go out into the Western world and write this survey (''Describe Santa Claus as you imagine him using as many descriptors as you can'') you will undoubtedly get almost 99% mention of ''whiteness'' or ''Caucasian'' where race is mentioned.

To assume that Santa is color-blind or somehow a multicultural legacy is to deny a very European legacy and to alter an artistic legacy to the cultural detriment of mankind.

Hence Santa Claus has been and shall always remain white.

You have yet to source us this 'Santa' canon even existing and not being just a figment of your imagination.

99% of artistic depictions of Santa have shown him as white. He's always been white in the popular imagination... that's what is material.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

You have yet to source us this 'Santa' canon even existing and not being just a figment of your imagination.

99% of artistic depictions of Santa have shown him as white. He's always been white in the popular imagination... that's what is material.

I can post several thousands like this:

[Rocopurr]

You have yet to source us this 'Santa' canon even existing and not being just a figment of your imagination.

99% of artistic depictions of Santa have shown him as white. He's always been white in the popular imagination... that's what is material.

That is tradition, yes, but tradition alone isn't a good reason.

[Aeken]

99% of artistic depictions of Santa have shown him as white. He's always been white in the popular imagination... that's what is material.

That is tradition, yes, but tradition alone isn't a good reason.

You know he claimed it is copyrighted by Europe to be white.

[God Kefka]

99% of artistic depictions of Santa have shown him as white. He's always been white in the popular imagination... that's what is material.

I can post several thousands like this:

for every ''several thousand'' pictures you can post I can post ''several thousand multiplied by 99'' times the number of pictures of him as white... and out of every ''several thousand'' pictures you post most of them will be satire and all of them non-canon.

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

You have yet to source us this 'Santa' canon even existing and not being just a figment of your imagination.

99% of artistic depictions of Santa have shown him as white. He's always been white in the popular imagination... that's what is material.

I asked sources for a Santa canon and I get a set of millions of Santa pictures. I demand a refund.

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

I can post several thousands like this:

for every ''several thousand'' pictures you can post I can post ''several thousand multiplied by 99'' times the number of pictures of him as white... and out of every ''several thousand'' pictures you post most of them will be satire and all of them non-canon.

That alone proves there's no canon and that you're a disturbed white supremacist who feels the need to alter evidence to back his claims.

[Aeken]

I can post several thousands like this:

for every ''several thousand'' pictures you can post I can post ''several thousand multiplied by 99'' times the number of pictures of him as white... and out of every ''several thousand'' pictures you post most of them will be satire and all of them non-canon.

You do know what satire is, don't you?

[God Kefka]

for every ''several thousand'' pictures you can post I can post ''several thousand multiplied by 99'' times the number of pictures of him as white... and out of every ''several thousand'' pictures you post most of them will be satire and all of them non-canon.

That alone proves there's no canon and that you're a disturbed white supremacist who feels the need to alter evidence to back his claims.

in the 18th and 19th century in Western Europe where this legend was just born (having sufficiently synthesized all the elements from the inspirations... Saint Nick, Odin, Sinterklass, Father Christmas to form the coherent modern Santa etc)... did they imagine a white man or a black man?

In that age of glory in Europe there is no doubt that the popular imagination unanimously imagined a white Santa. All of the artworks and literature of the day attest so... That is what forms the canon.

The picture, such as the one above... is mostly satire/non-canon. Everyone knows that even where a black man dresses up as a Santa and seeks to play him, he is still paying tribute to and playing a fundamentally white role.