"Santa Claus should be white"

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

What is wite? If you mean WHITE then yes even that photo looks white (tho tanned). Not that it means anything, everyone knows most forensic reconstructions are BS anyway. I remember when the CIA tried to 'reconstruct' Bin Laden to account for age and it wound up seriously pissing off some Spanish politician who looked identical. Then when they actually got him, he didn't look anything like that in any case.

And there is no difference. They are both objecting to Santa being a certain color because they are threatened by people who look different. Not exactly a helpful conversation in terms of healthy racial relations.

1) If we ignore FR we are left with regional characteristics (still deasnt in the 3rd century). For a 3rd century myra we lie between modern turkmens and namibians. That is between
and


2) Governor George Wallace didn't like any people who didn't look like him at University of Alabama. Conversely Thurgood Marshall didn't like that nobody like him was at Sumner Elementary. Wallace was a raciest Marshall was not. Similarly, Aisha Harris was concerned by an overwhelmingly white image; whereas, Megyn Kelly objected to a mix of representations.

Can you explain to me why Namibians are somehow native to Anatolia, which is 1000s km away from their traditional homeland?
Also you keep going on about Turkomen but fail to realize that there was no major migration from Central Asia for several more centuries.

Look at Anatolian Turks today. Look at Greeks. Look at Armenians. They are overwhelmingly lightskinned.
I've known many people from all three ethnic groups, even my grandmother is Greek!

[Lianhua (Ancient)]

OP almost a week ago..

1: Do you think that we should start to see black representations of Santa in popular culture?
2: Is wanting black representations of Santa in popular culture "racist", or just lobbying?
3: Is the "war on christmas" a legitimate political standpoint?
4: Generally, what are your views on black vs. white representations of popular culture figures in modern culture?

5 days into the thread..

Can you explain to me why Namibians are somehow native to Anatolia, which is 1000s km away from their traditional homeland?
Also you keep going on about Turkomen but fail to realize that there was no major migration from Central Asia for several more centuries.

Oh, NSG. Never ever change please.

[Alien Space Bats]

Dear God! Why does it matter?

Santa can only canonically be white, so when Black Fathers play Santa, they must always keep in mind they are playing a white man, and so, they must put on White-Face and do the whole White Minstrel Act.

NPR (nice acronym, BTW) is being facetious, but only just.

The real issue here is the "ownership" of Santa Claus, in the sense of whether he is merely a white cultural icon who may not be appropriated by minorities for any purpose, or whether he is universal.

God Kefka is adamant on this point: Santa Claus belongs to white people. Minorities living in places like America can "enjoy" Santa, but only to the extent that they don't think of him as "theirs". Black fathers and uncles should not dress up as Santa Claus (dressing as one of Santa's worker elves would be more appropriate, should they wish to partake of the fable), or — if they do — they should always remember (and presumably remind their children) that they are not the "real" Santa Claus, but rather a cheap imitation, because the "real" Santa is white. It's all a part of the "othering" of minorities, whereby we whites make it clear to minorities that this is OUR country and OUR culture, not theirs; they can enjoy it only as outsiders who have been invited to partake of it, not as natives, but as cultural visitors. If these foreign "others" want holiday traditions of their own, they should invent them (eg., Kwanzaa); but whatever they may wish, they're not getting their filthy hands on those things that WE own.

Thus, the War of White Christmas: It is OURS, and it must always BE ours. To accept multicultural dilution is unacceptable, and must be fought using any and all means necessary.

Multiculturalists like me understand that this sort of ethnic homesteading of a prominent holiday is harmful; we are much more open to the notion that different ethnic groups might appropriate Christmas and its symbols for their own use, and are not threatened by this. Thus, we see nothing wrong with Mexican depictions of Santa in a sombrero, accompanied by a magical burro; we have no problem seeing people make and break piñatas full of candy for the little ones, or set up luminarias to light the way for the Christ Child. To us, these are simply the way another culture (and the immigrant subculture that is related to it) celebrate the holidays, and they are as valid and as wonderful as the ways we are used to seeing Christmas celebrated.

And if black fathers and uncles dress up as Santa, what's the harm in that? Black children are entitled to hang out stockings, leave milk and cookies out on the table, and wait for Santa to place presents under the tree for them. And if that Santa ends up being their father — who is also black — then that's no cultural violation; rather, it's the spirit of the season, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Unless, of course, you're the kind of Grinch who thinks that black kids don't deserve a wonderful Christmas, the way white kids do.

[Cannot think of a name]

Santa can only canonically be white, so when Black Fathers play Santa, they must always keep in mind they are playing a white man, and so, they must put on White-Face and do the whole White Minstrel Act.

NPR (nice acronym, BTW) is being facetious, but only just.

The real issue here is the "ownership" of Santa Claus, in the sense of whether he is merely a white cultural icon who may not be appropriated by minorities for any purpose, or whether he is universal.

God Kefka is adamant on this point: Santa Claus belongs to white people. Minorities living in places like America can "enjoy" Santa, but only to the extent that they don't think of him as "theirs". Black fathers and uncles should not dress up as Santa Claus (dressing as one of Santa's worker elves would be more appropriate, should they wish to partake of the fable), or — if they do — they should always remember (and presumably remind their children) that they are not the "real" Santa Claus, but rather a cheap imitation, because the "real" Santa is white. It's all a part of the "othering" of minorities, whereby we whites make it clear to minorities that this is OUR country and OUR culture, not theirs; they can enjoy it only as outsiders who have been invited to partake of it, not as natives, but as cultural visitors. If these foreign "others" want holiday traditions of their own, they should invent them (eg., Kwanzaa); but whatever they may wish, they're not getting their filthy hands on those things that WE own.

Thus, the War of White Christmas: It is OURS, and it must always BE ours. To accept multicultural dilution is unacceptable, and must be fought using any and all means necessary.

Multiculturalists like me understand that this sort of ethnic homesteading of a prominent holiday is harmful; we are much more open to the notion that different ethnic groups might appropriate Christmas and its symbols for their own use, and are not threatened by this. Thus, we see nothing wrong with Mexican depictions of Santa in a sombrero, accompanied by a magical burro; we have no problem seeing people make and break piñatas full of candy for the little ones, or set up luminarias to light the way for the Christ Child. To us, these are simply the way another culture (and the immigrant subculture that is related to it) celebrate the holidays, and they are as valid and as wonderful as the ways we are used to seeing Christmas celebrated.

And if black fathers and uncles dress up as Santa, what's the harm in that? Black children are entitled to hang out stockings, leave milk and cookies out on the table, and wait for Santa to place presents under the tree for them. And if that Santa ends up being their father — who is also black — then that's no cultural violation; rather, it's the spirit of the season, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Unless, of course, you're the kind of Grinch who thinks that black kids don't deserve a wonderful Christmas, the way white kids do.

Here's where I wonder how the light switch doesn't go on. Like, I don't get it. You'd think that at some point where they're freaking out that a fictional character isn't white all the time a light bulb would go off and they'd start to understand the power of representation and have a naked lunch moment of realizing how representation must be effecting those who don't 'own' the culture so to speak.

But nope. The just trudge forward insisting on their dominance without an ounce of awareness as to the very similar reasons why this might be important to other people in the culture.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

After RAW, I can so see a Black Santa Claus

[Tekania]

The whole cultural misappropriation argument becomes even funnier when you consider the our (the US) "Santa Claus" is a "misappropriation" from multiple other cultures. Like just about everything else culturally "American" it's nothing but an amalgamation and modification of things pulled from some other culture(s). As such, there is nothing more intrinsically American in culture than modifying it to adapt to the populace.... As such, there is nothing more culturally American than a Santa who can appear as any race.

If you want to see someone attempting to thwart American Culture, look no further than the dude arguing that it should not change.... Look no further than to someone like God Kefka.

[Alien Space Bats]

Here's where I wonder how the light switch doesn't go on. Like, I don't get it. You'd think that at some point where they're freaking out that a fictional character isn't white all the time a light bulb would go off and they'd start to understand the power of representation and have a naked lunch moment of realizing how representation must be effecting those who don't 'own' the culture so to speak.

But nope. The just trudge forward insisting on their dominance without an ounce of awareness as to the very similar reasons why this might be important to other people in the culture.

You're describing a problem general to the conservative movement overall. It's sort of a "My view and perspective are right, and damn you if you don't just accept my view and my perspective as the only valid ones" blindness that, when you really look at it, is quite shocking. It explains the stupid rape remarks (or decisions to attach abortion bills to motorcycle safety laws ['cause motorcycles and vaginas are both things you ride... oh wait...], or to send abortion bills to legislative committees overseeing animal husbandry ['cause laws pertaining to women are just like regulating livestock... oh, wait...]), the stupid race remarks, the stupid remarks about "makers" and "takers", and all the rest. There's a near-complete inability to actually step outside themselves, look at their own words and actions, and say, "Damn, you know, what I'm saying and doing here really looks BAAAADDDD..."

I'd almost go so far as to say that this is probably the deciding factor in determining who's conservative and who's liberal. If you're capable of stepping outside yourself long enough to think about your larger place in the world, you're probably going to be liberal; in contrast, if you've been taught certain things are right or wrong and you can't examine your won premises at all (or think about what it means to be somebody other than... well, YOU), then you're likely to be conservative.

And so we have the same thing here: One side is screaming: "Santa is WHITE!!! Santa has ALWAYS been WHITE!!! I LOVE Santa!!!! YOU BASTARD, YOU'RE STEALING MY SANTA!!!!"" while the other side is thinking, "What is your problem? Why are you against little black kids enjoying Christmas, too? Why do you feel the need to tell them in this holiest of seasons that they're outsiders who don't belong in the country of their birth? WTF?!?" We're completely talking past each other: We can't understand why they find any possible change in their deepest beliefs so threatening, and they can't understand why we care about the feelings of people to whom they can't even begin to relate.

Governor George Wallace didn't like any people who didn't look like him at University of Alabama.

One more proof that we live in degenerate times: I cannot for the life of me even BEGIN to imagine George Corley Wallace, Jr. getting upset about black fathers dressing up as Santa Claus, even at the height of his career as a segregationist demagogue.

That kind of tells you something, doesn't it?

The picture, such as the one above [of Bill Cosby dressed as Santa]... is mostly satire/non-canon. Everyone knows that even where a black man dresses up as a Santa and seeks to play him, he is still paying tribute to and playing a fundamentally white role.

Actually, black children don't.

But you'd spoil Christmas for those children if you could, wouldn't you, Mr. Grinch? I mean, Christmas must be White! Minorities can't have it!

Well, O.K. maybe that's unfair. It's not that you WANT to spoil Christmas for little black children; that would require an element of deliberate hatred you lack. No, it's much more likely (per the discussion above) that you can't relate to little black children who mean nothing to you, and can't understand why the rest of us bother to TRY to relate to them, either.

"Imagine you were black."
"But I'm not."
"But imagine that you were..."
"But I'm not."
"Look, just imagine it."
"Why should I?"
"Because then you'd see things their way."
"Why would I want to do that?"

[Sociobiology]

2) Governor George Wallace didn't like any people who didn't look like him at University of Alabama. Conversely Thurgood Marshall didn't like that nobody like him was at Sumner Elementary. Wallace was a raciest Marshall was not. Similarly, Aisha Harris was concerned by an overwhelmingly white image; whereas, Megyn Kelly objected to a mix of representations.

Can you explain to me why Namibians are somehow native to Anatolia, which is 1000s km away from their traditional homeland?
Also you keep going on about Turkomen but fail to realize that there was no major migration from Central Asia for several more centuries.

Look at Anatolian Turks today. Look at Greeks. Look at Armenians. They are overwhelmingly lightskinned.
I've known many people from all three ethnic groups, even my grandmother is Greek![/quote]
you do realize light skinned and white are not treated as the same thing.
for example non of the people you just listed were considered white.
I don't know if I should be happy that past racism has dwindled to the point people don't remember what "white" meant or be ashamed that people still care whether some is white.

but just to remind everyone this guy


is more closely related to this guy (and vice versa)



than either is to this guy.


so its not like skin color means all that much.

[Microsol]

Well have you ever seen a black santa?

[The Damnatius]

I'd always assumed Jesus was no different than anyone else of that region, and just as well as Santa in his region of origin. Of course, I always viewed God as black, thanks to Bruce Almighty, this seems friendlier than just another white man in a position of great power.

[Sociobiology]

Well have you ever seen a black santa?

all the time

[Sociobiology]

I'd always assumed Jesus was no different than anyone else of that region, and just as well as Santa in his region of origin. Of course, I always viewed God as black, thanks to Bruce Almighty, this seems friendlier than just another white man in a position of great power.

well santa was invented in america, so...

[Tekania]

I'd always assumed Jesus was no different than anyone else of that region, and just as well as Santa in his region of origin. Of course, I always viewed God as black, thanks to Bruce Almighty, this seems friendlier than just another white man in a position of great power.

well santa was invented in america, so...

Best Santa ever.

[Shaggai]

well santa was invented in america, so...

Best Santa ever.

Who, the random person in the background?

[Luveria]

(Image)

Varg!? I was not expecting to see him in a Santa thread.

[Chinese Regions]

which lets face it; he was

It's settled, Santa is either a Geisha Girl, a Vampire or a Snowman.

[Sociobiology]

Best Santa ever.

Who, the random person in the background?

should it bother me more or less, that gender of Santa matter less than race to you?
gender equality but not racial equality...

" it doesn't matter if its a dude or a chick as long as Santa's white..."

[Sociobiology]

which lets face it; he was

It's settled, Santa is either a Geisha Girl, a Vampire or a Snowman.

Santa is Odin, he wanted to expand into the Christian market.
And now hes gone global, a true win for the underdog, I bet more kids have heard of Santa than Jesus.

[Vamtrl]

He lives in the North Pole, most logical conclusion would be that he would be white.* I have no problems with Santa being black or Asian though, and it probably is outside of USA.

*considering he exists.

[Bezombia]

He lives in the North Pole, most logical conclusion would be that he would be white.* I have no problems with Santa being black or Asian, and it probably is outside of USA.

*considering he exists.

How on earth did you make THAT correlation?

[Vamtrl]

He lives in the North Pole, most logical conclusion would be that he would be white.* I have no problems with Santa being black or Asian, and it probably is outside of USA.

*considering he exists.

How on earth did you make THAT correlation?

People from the North = White but I guess Native Indian would be more apt.

[Bezombia]

How on earth did you make THAT correlation?

People from the North = White

[Citation Needed]

[Mavorpen]

Ok, irrespective of the fact that St. Nicholas was white (which lets face it; he was), I think it's somewhat hypocritical of the author of the slate article to demand we make Santa black so as to represent everyone.

If she really feels so alienated by a white santa then why shouldn't Megyn Kelly feel equally alienated by a black one? The entire article is blatant race bait which Fox, unsurprisingly, gulped up like a hungry hippo.

You might want to actually read the Slate article.

Because the Slate author didn't say we should make Santa black. Like, at all.

[Vamtrl]

People from the North = White

[Citation Needed]

Look at the map.

[Tekania]

It's settled, Santa is either a Geisha Girl, a Vampire or a Snowman.

Santa is Odin, he wanted to expand into the Christian market.
And now hes gone global, a true win for the underdog, I bet more kids have heard of Santa than Jesus.

Better marketing target...... it's not hard to sell free gifts to children.