Judge orders Colorado baker to serve gay couples

[Starkiller101]

People need to understand that you can't refuse people anymore because of their sexual orientation. So the judge made the right call in this one.

[Jormengand]

Swim across the ocean and you have different facts and reality.

Facts do not change when you stop looking at them. If you can cite a study, American, Asian or otherwise, which actually goes against the APA, we may start caring. Unlikely, but we might.

[Liriena]

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx these are facts
And the facts disprove your second argument: it is normal.

American site.

Swim across the ocean and you have different facts and reality. American culture is one of the youngest and in some ways craziest and decadent cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Asia

That's an argumentum ad hominem. You haven't proven the APA's assertions wrong. You have merely attacked the APA as an organization, on the basis of their cultural origins. Your argument is invalid.

[Kelinfort]

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx these are facts
And the facts disprove your second argument: it is normal.

American site.

Swim across the ocean and you have different facts and reality. American culture is one of the youngest and in some ways craziest and decadent cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Asia

What about Europe? That is an extremely old culture: http://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/s ... hs_web.pdf
Please stop moving the goalposts. Also, merely saying a nation doesn't provide rights for its LGBT populace is not "proof" of a civilized culture (then again, the term itself is nebulous.)

I don't know where you're sourcing your facts for your argument. You merely use the lack of rights to prove your argument, which it certainly fails at providing. Culture may change, but facts and reality do not.

[G3rmany]

Just thought I'd get my opinion in. I'm pro-homosexual rights/marriage, and I was the first to stand up and defend my homosexual friends in highschool (I don't like using the word gay, because it sounds insulting and isn't the correct term. Gay means happy, not homosexual), however, I don't agree with the couple. The biggest thing about private business is that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Hell, if they wanted to, they could refuse the President. So for a judge to force the baker to serve the couple is a breach of his rights as a private business. However, refusing the couple is a breach of civil rights. If I could have it my way, they wouldn't be refused and the baker wouldn't mind. However, as I said before, he's a private business, he shouldn't be forced to do anything against his religion or views. Plus, it's kinda unfair that the couple gets to play the discrimination card.

[Jormengand]

The biggest thing about private business is that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

Did you read the thread, which has already proven that to be wrong at least seven times?

Plus, it's kinda unfair that the couple gets to play the discrimination card.

It's not playing the X card if X is something entirely relevant, and indeed the entire point of the discussion.

[Caninope]

Just thought I'd get my opinion in. I'm pro-homosexual rights/marriage, and I was the first to stand up and defend my homosexual friends in highschool (I don't like using the word gay, because it sounds insulting and isn't the correct term. Gay means happy, not homosexual), however, I don't agree with the couple. The biggest thing about private business is that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Hell, if they wanted to, they could refuse the President. So for a judge to force the baker to serve the couple is a breach of his rights as a private business. However, refusing the couple is a breach of civil rights. If I could have it my way, they wouldn't be refused and the baker wouldn't mind. However, as I said before, he's a private business, he shouldn't be forced to do anything against his religion or views. Plus, it's kinda unfair that the couple gets to play the discrimination card.

They may refuse service to anyone, provided it is not because of a protected class. Sexual orientation is a protected class in Colorado.

[Kelinfort]

Just thought I'd get my opinion in. I'm pro-homosexual rights/marriage, and I was the first to stand up and defend my homosexual friends in highschool (I don't like using the word gay, because it sounds insulting and isn't the correct term. Gay means happy, not homosexual), however, I don't agree with the couple. The biggest thing about private business is that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Hell, if they wanted to, they could refuse the President. So for a judge to force the baker to serve the couple is a breach of his rights as a private business. However, refusing the couple is a breach of civil rights. If I could have it my way, they wouldn't be refused and the baker wouldn't mind. However, as I said before, he's a private business, he shouldn't be forced to do anything against his religion or views. Plus, it's kinda unfair that the couple gets to play the discrimination card.

Firstly, he could refuse to serve them...but the reason he gave not to serve them is because they are homosexual. No other reason. That is discrimination, not a right
Secondly, he has to abide by regulations in place by the government; it's how he got his business license. He can still refuse service, but not discriminate.

[Northfront]

American site.

Swim across the ocean and you have different facts and reality. American culture is one of the youngest and in some ways craziest and decadent cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Asia

What about Europe? That is an extremely old culture: http://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/s ... hs_web.pdf
Please stop moving the goalposts. Also, merely saying a nation doesn't provide rights for its LGBT populace is not "proof" of a civilized culture (then again, the term itself is nebulous.)

I don't know where you're sourcing your facts for your argument. You merely use the lack of rights to prove your argument, which it certainly fails at providing. Culture may change, but facts and reality do not.

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

[Jormengand]

the Russians... do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do.

Not de jure, but they do de facto.

[Ifreann]

Just thought I'd get my opinion in. I'm pro-homosexual rights/marriage, and I was the first to stand up and defend my homosexual friends in highschool (I don't like using the word gay, because it sounds insulting and isn't the correct term. Gay means happy, not homosexual)

The English language isn't that strict. Gay has come to be a synonym for homosexual and there's nothing wrong with using it as such.

, however, I don't agree with the couple. The biggest thing about private business is that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

In fact they do not. If they did this lawsuit would never have happened, and certainly the baker wouldn't have lost.

Hell, if they wanted to, they could refuse the President.

Yes, they could. But not on the grounds of his race, or religion, or sexuality.

So for a judge to force the baker to serve the couple is a breach of his rights as a private business.

No it isn't.

However, refusing the couple is a breach of civil rights.

Which is why the baker must serve the couple the same as he would any straight couple. If that bothers him so, he can shut down his business.

If I could have it my way, they wouldn't be refused and the baker wouldn't mind. However, as I said before, he's a private business, he shouldn't be forced to do anything against his religion or views.

Yes he should. His personal beliefs are not a shield against his legal responsibilities as a business owner.

Plus, it's kinda unfair that the couple gets to play the discrimination card.

There is nothing unfair about people who are discriminated against using anti-discrimination laws to protect their rights.

Your earlier claim about being a supporter of gay rights now seems extremely dubious.

[Kelinfort]

What about Europe? That is an extremely old culture: http://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/s ... hs_web.pdf
Please stop moving the goalposts. Also, merely saying a nation doesn't provide rights for its LGBT populace is not "proof" of a civilized culture (then again, the term itself is nebulous.)

I don't know where you're sourcing your facts for your argument. You merely use the lack of rights to prove your argument, which it certainly fails at providing. Culture may change, but facts and reality do not.

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

Yeah, because equal rights is such a revolutionary idea...there is no pro gay propaganda, it's a civil rights movement, much like the 1960's in America. Russia is not ready for change yet, but one day they shall be.

Your whole understanding of homosexuality is rooted in fallacies and in argument ad hominem's. Read scientific articles about the subject and if you still hold your position, provide facts to support your claim homosexuality is a mental illness.

[Dyakovo]

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx these are facts
And the facts disprove your second argument: it is normal.

American site.

Irrelevant. Do you have any peer-reviewed source supporting homosexuality being a mental illness?

[Othelos]

What about Europe? That is an extremely old culture: http://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/s ... hs_web.pdf
Please stop moving the goalposts. Also, merely saying a nation doesn't provide rights for its LGBT populace is not "proof" of a civilized culture (then again, the term itself is nebulous.)

I don't know where you're sourcing your facts for your argument. You merely use the lack of rights to prove your argument, which it certainly fails at providing. Culture may change, but facts and reality do not.

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

What propaganda?

[Estado Paulista]

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

Also, it's homosexuality.

[Kelinfort]

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

What propaganda?

All that equal rights demanding, it gets loud and annoying

[Mavorpen]

American site.

Irrelevant. Do you have any peer-reviewed source supporting homosexuality being a mental illness?

Why am I not surprised that his argument is almost identical to those who were against blacks being given rights, specially the right to marry.

[The Holy Therns]

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

What propaganda?

You know, wanting basic recognition as equals. The fiends.

[G3rmany]

*Wishes people still believed the "my little brother used my computer while I went to the bathroom" excuse*
Well, I accept that I made myself look like a ignorant 12 year old. To be honest, I didn't really think about it or research into it, nor did I read the rest of the posts. I was more just looking to state my opinion, and leave.

Hopefully, I'm not branded as a pre-pubescent 12 year old.
Anyways, have a good day, NS.

[Mavorpen]

*Wishes people still believed the "my little brother used my computer while I went to the bathroom" excuse*
Well, I accept that I made myself look like a ignorant 12 year old. To be honest, I didn't really think about it or research into it, nor did I read the rest of the posts. I was more just looking to state my opinion, and leave.

Hopefully, I'm not branded as a pre-pubescent 12 year old.
Anyways, have a good day, NS.

...Who are you?

[Ifreann]

*Wishes people still believed the "my little brother used my computer while I went to the bathroom" excuse*
Well, I accept that I made myself look like a ignorant 12 year old. To be honest, I didn't really think about it or research into it, nor did I read the rest of the posts. I was more just looking to state my opinion, and leave.

Try Facebook.

[G3rmany]

*Wishes people still believed the "my little brother used my computer while I went to the bathroom" excuse*
Well, I accept that I made myself look like a ignorant 12 year old. To be honest, I didn't really think about it or research into it, nor did I read the rest of the posts. I was more just looking to state my opinion, and leave.

Hopefully, I'm not branded as a pre-pubescent 12 year old.
Anyways, have a good day, NS.

...Who are you?

Who am I?
Batman..
*Jumps off roof of skyscraper*

[Swedish Realm]

What about Europe? That is an extremely old culture: http://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/s ... hs_web.pdf
Please stop moving the goalposts. Also, merely saying a nation doesn't provide rights for its LGBT populace is not "proof" of a civilized culture (then again, the term itself is nebulous.)

I don't know where you're sourcing your facts for your argument. You merely use the lack of rights to prove your argument, which it certainly fails at providing. Culture may change, but facts and reality do not.

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

Yeah, that I can agree with. Sweden needs help.

[Kelinfort]

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

Yeah, that I can agree with. Sweden needs help.

Sweden's actually at the forefront of Same sex rights.

[Othelos]

Western Europe is very much like USA.

In Europe I think the Russians have the most rational approach on homosexualism.

They do not hunt them or kill them like the muslims do. But they do not allow pro gay people to spread the propaganda.

Yeah, that I can agree with. Sweden needs help.

Yeah. People who are inherently different should be forced to conform.