NATION

PASSWORD

What gender do you identify with?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What gender do you identify with?

Man
351
74%
Woman
68
14%
Other
53
11%
 
Total votes : 472

User avatar
Luveria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:23 am

Lost heros wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:76% are men, knew it was a sausage fest in here, I guess that's why we have so many circle jerks.

Wow, misunderstanding the definition of gender and stereotyping men in one post.


Also it implied that when enough males are in a room, instant sausagefest.

What is this... a gay/bi club? I wish.
Last edited by Luveria on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:21 am

Luveria wrote:What is this... a gay/bi club? I wish.

Well, NSG does have disproportionately many non-hetero people, so...
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Vareiln
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13052
Founded: Aug 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Vareiln » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:43 am

Aurora Novus wrote:I don't now how beneficial it is for me to reply to a topic like this, given my views on gender...but, maybe I can share something useful. Given the choices, I would undoubtably identify as genderless. Though, if given the standard "male/female" choice of society, I would almost always pick female. I feel more associated with "feminine" things than "masculine" things. Furthermore, most of my friends, and all of my close friends, are women. In fact for me it has been something of a major issue, always feeling this wall of seperation from the people I am closest to. And it's been a rather painful experience for me, which may at least in part explain my deep hatred (I feel comfortable describing it as such) of sex and gender orientated thinking. My heart's true desire is to walk the line, so as to be able to fluidly move in and out of either social circle, and in effect, creating my own, unique circle. But in the event I cannot do that, I would surely wish to be on the side of those I long to be with the most. Something which has been denied to me, due to my sex, both by society at large, and in many cases even my own friends.


I detest gender. With every fiber of my being, I hate it. I hate the groupism. I hate the ostracization. I hate the pain. And I will never stop hating it.


Perhaps for some of you that will explain, in part, the reasons I've taken up the positions I have in previous debates.

Hmmm... It seems I had mistaken you.


User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Luveria wrote:
The question is;

Masculine male, masculine female, or masculine androgyne?

No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:34 pm

Jormengand wrote:
Conscentia wrote:No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.
Last edited by Conscentia on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:39 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:48 pm

Jormengand wrote:
Conscentia wrote:Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

Sexual dimorphism isn't gender.

User avatar
Crownariam
Envoy
 
Posts: 264
Founded: Oct 24, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Crownariam » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:54 pm

Jormengand wrote:
Conscentia wrote:Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

That's not very nice, and you have nothing to back it up as well. Well done. :|

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Crownariam wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

That's not very nice, and you have nothing to back it up as well. Well done. :|

You're standing up for stereotyping‽ :eyebrow:

User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:00 pm

Crownariam wrote:That's not very nice, and you have nothing to back it up as well. Well done. :|

Stereotypes are, by definition, false and born of ignorance.
Conscentia wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

Sexual dimorphism isn't gender.

Of course not. Which is why it's a pity I'm not talking about anything of the sort.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.


User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Of course not. Which is why it's a pity I'm not talking about anything of the sort.

If you aren't talking about sexual dimorphism in the brain, then I demand much sauce.

If anything, I'm talking about Gender dimorphism in the brain.

People who know what they're talking about wrote:Differences in the brain's white matter that clash with a person's genetic sex may hold the key to identifying transsexual people before puberty.

...

and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain


Sauce and pasta, for your convenience.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 32383
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Aurora Novus wrote:I don't now how beneficial it is for me to reply to a topic like this, given my views on gender...but, maybe I can share something useful. Given the choices, I would undoubtably identify as genderless. Though, if given the standard "male/female" choice of society, I would almost always pick female. I feel more associated with "feminine" things than "masculine" things. Furthermore, most of my friends, and all of my close friends, are women. In fact for me it has been something of a major issue, always feeling this wall of seperation from the people I am closest to. And it's been a rather painful experience for me, which may at least in part explain my deep hatred (I feel comfortable describing it as such) of sex and gender orientated thinking. My heart's true desire is to walk the line, so as to be able to fluidly move in and out of either social circle, and in effect, creating my own, unique circle. But in the event I cannot do that, I would surely wish to be on the side of those I long to be with the most. Something which has been denied to me, due to my sex, both by society at large, and in many cases even my own friends.


I detest gender. With every fiber of my being, I hate it. I hate the groupism. I hate the ostracization. I hate the pain. And I will never stop hating it.


Perhaps for some of you that will explain, in part, the reasons I've taken up the positions I have in previous debates.



I can understand that. I was lucky in some ways in that my friends in general don't care. They are also mainly female, but most of us fall into the LGBT spectrum. However there are times when I am classified by other people simply due to the fact that my sex is female. The pain you feel at the classification is very similar to the pain others feel when they are excluded from the group they should be part of. For me, I could never identify with any gender, it confused me when we had girls night out or boys teams and girls teams. I don't detest gender, I detest the fact that sex is used to divide people when there is no reason for it. I hate that since I am of a specific sex. I detest even more that it took me coming to NSG to have a word for what I am feeling. I knew of transmen and transwomen, those who identify as someone inside the gender binary still have the words to explain what they are feeling, but for those of us outside the binary, the words are only now just coming into existence.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Zottistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14854
Founded: Nov 26, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Zottistan » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:19 pm

Jormengand wrote:
Conscentia wrote:No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:22 pm

Zottistan wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

Yeah, but that's the our ambiguous tongue for you. No, I don't mean the pink thing in my mouth. :p

Yes, that was deliberate.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 32383
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:23 pm

Zottistan wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.


The vocabulary came about because the easiest to understand are those on the gender binary.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:26 pm

Jormengand wrote:
Conscentia wrote:If you aren't talking about sexual dimorphism in the brain, then I demand much sauce.

If anything, I'm talking about Gender dimorphism in the brain.

People who know what they're talking about wrote:Differences in the brain's white matter that clash with a person's genetic sex may hold the key to identifying transsexual people before puberty.

...

and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain


Sauce and pasta, for your convenience.

It's most likely caused by one of the mechanisms that causes sexual dimorphism, as in ambiguous genitalia and other such things.
It is not "gender dimorphism".
All that demonstrates is that sexual dimorphism in the brain influences self-perception & therefore the gender one identifies with.
Last edited by Conscentia on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:28 pm

Conscentia wrote:most likely

I assume this means that you haven't got a source, and assume you know better than every psychologist in the world who knows what he's about on principle?
Last edited by Jormengand on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Jormengand wrote:
Conscentia wrote:most likely

I assume this means that you haven't got a source, and

Good. It's obvious that this is my hypothesis, which is what intended to present it as.
My sources would be the evidence you presented. Additional data collection is necessary to falsify or assert my hypothesis. But, I'm sure you're familiar with the workings of science...
Jormengand wrote:assume you know better than every psychologist in the world who knows what he's about on principle?

Every psychologist? :eyebrow:
Please don't present thy own hypotheses as though they're universal consensus.
Last edited by Conscentia on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Tundra
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1228
Founded: Sep 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Tundra » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:39 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

that is masculine androgyne
Last edited by The Tundra on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I suffer from many communicative disorders with the written word do to brain damage sustained during surgery, i apologies for appalling grammar and spelling.
Conservative Conservationists wrote:Too many puns and bad media lines
Must... Stop.... Self....

Stuff it

Despite anal probe, no crack found by police
Anal probe was shitty
Implements inserted for a crap reason
Man seeking a rears for police brutality
Man sues asses for penetrating his own
Police demand to spread went too far
Long arm of law goes inside
Lesson: Only stick it up there with permission.


Jormengand wrote:If you wish to continue this banal line of thought about the whys and the wherefores, the wall is over there and is very interested in what you have to say

User avatar
Jormengand
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8414
Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:43 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Jormengand wrote:I assume this means that you haven't got a source, and

Good. It's obvious that this is my hypothesis, which is what intended to present it as.
My sources would be the evidence you presented. Additional data collection is necessary to falsify or assert my hypothesis. But, I'm sure you're familiar with the workings of science...
Jormengand wrote:assume you know better than every psychologist in the world who knows what he's about on principle?

Every psychologist? :eyebrow:
Please don't present thy own hypotheses as though they're universal consensus.

Except that they're not my own hypotheses, but the generally agreed conclusion from the facts.

In any case, whatever you or I or anyone else thinks about the why, the what is that gender is almost irrevocably set in stone - or rather, in the brains of human beings. Thus, it is most certainly not just a stereotype, rendering your original statement demonstrably incorrect. If you wish to continue this banal line of thought about the whys and the wherefores, the wall is over there and is very interested in what you have to say - far more so than I am. I wished only to refute your obviously incorrect statement, and if you have no further thoughts of relevance, you are dismissed.
Jormengand wrote:It would be really meta if I sigged this.

User avatar
Phocidaea
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5316
Founded: Jul 21, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Phocidaea » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:48 pm

Zottistan wrote:
Jormengand wrote:Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

And what alternative terminology do you propose? :P
Call me Phoca.
Senator [Unknown] of the Liberal Democrats in NSG Senate.
Je suis Charlie: Because your feels don't justify murder.

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:05 pm

The Tundra wrote:
Conscentia wrote:Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

that is masculine androgyne

That doesn't make sense. Androgynous refers to a mixing of masculine and feminine traits.

Jormengand wrote:Except that they're not my own hypotheses, but the generally agreed conclusion from the facts.

I've seen no reason to think that.
Jormengand wrote:In any case, whatever you or I or anyone else thinks about the why, the what is that gender is almost irrevocably set in stone - or rather, in the brains of human beings.

Genders are not what is set in stone. Brain physiology is set in stone. This physiology manifests in behavioural tendencies. Brain physiology is affected by sexual dimorphism, thus the tendencies have been reflected in our culture, society, and stereotypes about the sexes. From these ideas evolved what we know as gender. In a minority, sexual dimorphism can become mixed up during development, and this can manifest as transgenderism. Masculinity & femininity has become detached from biological sex as those who did not conform have become accepted, thus we have the modern male & female genders.

In case of misunderstanding:
Gender is the state of being male or female used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/
Jormengand wrote:Thus, it is most certainly not just a stereotype, rendering your original statement demonstrably incorrect. If you wish to continue this banal line of thought about the whys and the wherefores, the wall is over there and is very interested in what you have to say - far more so than I am. I wished only to refute your obviously incorrect statement, and if you have no further thoughts of relevance, you are dismissed.

Explain to me the flaws in my position, and I will gladly correct my position.
Last edited by Conscentia on Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Condunum
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26273
Founded: Apr 26, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Condunum » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:17 pm

Conscentia wrote:
The Tundra wrote:that is masculine androgyne

That doesn't make sense. Androgynous refers to a mixing of masculine and feminine traits.

Think in the way we use North, Northwest, North by Northwest...
password scrambled

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States, Page, The New California Republic

Advertisement

Remove ads