What gender do you identify with?

[Luveria]

76% are men, knew it was a sausage fest in here, I guess that's why we have so many circle jerks.

Wow, misunderstanding the definition of gender and stereotyping men in one post.

Also it implied that when enough males are in a room, instant sausagefest.

What is this... a gay/bi club? I wish.

[Jormengand]

What is this... a gay/bi club? I wish.

Well, NSG does have disproportionately many non-hetero people, so...

[Vareiln]

I don't now how beneficial it is for me to reply to a topic like this, given my views on gender...but, maybe I can share something useful. Given the choices, I would undoubtably identify as genderless. Though, if given the standard "male/female" choice of society, I would almost always pick female. I feel more associated with "feminine" things than "masculine" things. Furthermore, most of my friends, and all of my close friends, are women. In fact for me it has been something of a major issue, always feeling this wall of seperation from the people I am closest to. And it's been a rather painful experience for me, which may at least in part explain my deep hatred (I feel comfortable describing it as such) of sex and gender orientated thinking. My heart's true desire is to walk the line, so as to be able to fluidly move in and out of either social circle, and in effect, creating my own, unique circle. But in the event I cannot do that, I would surely wish to be on the side of those I long to be with the most. Something which has been denied to me, due to my sex, both by society at large, and in many cases even my own friends.


I detest gender. With every fiber of my being, I hate it. I hate the groupism. I hate the ostracization. I hate the pain. And I will never stop hating it.


Perhaps for some of you that will explain, in part, the reasons I've taken up the positions I have in previous debates.

Hmmm... It seems I had mistaken you.

[Conscentia]

I am masculine

The question is;

Masculine male, masculine female, or masculine androgyne?

No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

[Jormengand]

The question is;

Masculine male, masculine female, or masculine androgyne?

No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

[Conscentia]

No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

[Jormengand]

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

[Conscentia]

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

Sexual dimorphism isn't gender.

[Crownariam]

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

That's not very nice, and you have nothing to back it up as well. Well done. :|

[Conscentia]

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

That's not very nice, and you have nothing to back it up as well. Well done. :|

You're standing up for stereotyping‽

[Jormengand]

That's not very nice, and you have nothing to back it up as well. Well done. :|

Stereotypes are, by definition, false and born of ignorance.

Except that genders are observable brain structures, and stereotypes are the opinions of idiots.

Sexual dimorphism isn't gender.

Of course not. Which is why it's a pity I'm not talking about anything of the sort.

[Conscentia]

Sexual dimorphism isn't gender.

Of course not. Which is why it's a pity I'm not talking about anything of the sort.

If you aren't talking about sexual dimorphism in the brain, then I demand much sauce.

[Jormengand]

Of course not. Which is why it's a pity I'm not talking about anything of the sort.

If you aren't talking about sexual dimorphism in the brain, then I demand much sauce.

If anything, I'm talking about Gender dimorphism in the brain.

Differences in the brain's white matter that clash with a person's genetic sex may hold the key to identifying transsexual people before puberty.

...

and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain

Sauce and pasta, for your convenience.

[Neutraligon]

I don't now how beneficial it is for me to reply to a topic like this, given my views on gender...but, maybe I can share something useful. Given the choices, I would undoubtably identify as genderless. Though, if given the standard "male/female" choice of society, I would almost always pick female. I feel more associated with "feminine" things than "masculine" things. Furthermore, most of my friends, and all of my close friends, are women. In fact for me it has been something of a major issue, always feeling this wall of seperation from the people I am closest to. And it's been a rather painful experience for me, which may at least in part explain my deep hatred (I feel comfortable describing it as such) of sex and gender orientated thinking. My heart's true desire is to walk the line, so as to be able to fluidly move in and out of either social circle, and in effect, creating my own, unique circle. But in the event I cannot do that, I would surely wish to be on the side of those I long to be with the most. Something which has been denied to me, due to my sex, both by society at large, and in many cases even my own friends.


I detest gender. With every fiber of my being, I hate it. I hate the groupism. I hate the ostracization. I hate the pain. And I will never stop hating it.


Perhaps for some of you that will explain, in part, the reasons I've taken up the positions I have in previous debates.

I can understand that. I was lucky in some ways in that my friends in general don't care. They are also mainly female, but most of us fall into the LGBT spectrum. However there are times when I am classified by other people simply due to the fact that my sex is female. The pain you feel at the classification is very similar to the pain others feel when they are excluded from the group they should be part of. For me, I could never identify with any gender, it confused me when we had girls night out or boys teams and girls teams. I don't detest gender, I detest the fact that sex is used to divide people when there is no reason for it. I hate that since I am of a specific sex. I detest even more that it took me coming to NSG to have a word for what I am feeling. I knew of transmen and transwomen, those who identify as someone inside the gender binary still have the words to explain what they are feeling, but for those of us outside the binary, the words are only now just coming into existence.

[Zottistan]

No. The question is "what gender do you identify with?".
Masculine is a gender.

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

[Jormengand]

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

Yeah, but that's the our ambiguous tongue for you. No, I don't mean the pink thing in my mouth.

Yes, that was deliberate.

[Neutraligon]

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

The vocabulary came about because the easiest to understand are those on the gender binary.

[Conscentia]

If you aren't talking about sexual dimorphism in the brain, then I demand much sauce.

If anything, I'm talking about Gender dimorphism in the brain.

Differences in the brain's white matter that clash with a person's genetic sex may hold the key to identifying transsexual people before puberty.

...

and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain

Sauce and pasta, for your convenience.

It's most likely caused by one of the mechanisms that causes sexual dimorphism, as in ambiguous genitalia and other such things.
It is not "gender dimorphism".
All that demonstrates is that sexual dimorphism in the brain influences self-perception & therefore the gender one identifies with.

[Jormengand]

most likely

I assume this means that you haven't got a source, and assume you know better than every psychologist in the world who knows what he's about on principle?

[Conscentia]

most likely

I assume this means that you haven't got a source, and

Good. It's obvious that this is my hypothesis, which is what intended to present it as.
My sources would be the evidence you presented. Additional data collection is necessary to falsify or assert my hypothesis. But, I'm sure you're familiar with the workings of science...

assume you know better than every psychologist in the world who knows what he's about on principle?

Every psychologist?
Please don't present thy own hypotheses as though they're universal consensus.

[The Tundra]

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

that is masculine androgyne

[Jormengand]

I assume this means that you haven't got a source, and

Good. It's obvious that this is my hypothesis, which is what intended to present it as.
My sources would be the evidence you presented. Additional data collection is necessary to falsify or assert my hypothesis. But, I'm sure you're familiar with the workings of science...

assume you know better than every psychologist in the world who knows what he's about on principle?

Every psychologist?
Please don't present thy own hypotheses as though they're universal consensus.

Except that they're not my own hypotheses, but the generally agreed conclusion from the facts.

In any case, whatever you or I or anyone else thinks about the why, the what is that gender is almost irrevocably set in stone - or rather, in the brains of human beings. Thus, it is most certainly not just a stereotype, rendering your original statement demonstrably incorrect. If you wish to continue this banal line of thought about the whys and the wherefores, the wall is over there and is very interested in what you have to say - far more so than I am. I wished only to refute your obviously incorrect statement, and if you have no further thoughts of relevance, you are dismissed.

[Phocidaea]

Masculine is a gender stereotype. Male is a gender. Male is also a sex, which is a source of moderate confusion, but primarily a gender.

The vocabulary used for this topic is nothing short of retarded, really. Using the same names for genders and sexes isn't helping to overcome the misconception that the two are the same thing, and frankly, it gets downright confusing.

And what alternative terminology do you propose?

[Conscentia]

Genders are stereotypes. Stereotypes associated with sexes up until relatively recently. Genders have become increasingly detached from sex as people who don't conform have been become more accepted, but refused to give up their labels.

that is masculine androgyne

That doesn't make sense. Androgynous refers to a mixing of masculine and feminine traits.

Except that they're not my own hypotheses, but the generally agreed conclusion from the facts.

I've seen no reason to think that.

In any case, whatever you or I or anyone else thinks about the why, the what is that gender is almost irrevocably set in stone - or rather, in the brains of human beings.

Genders are not what is set in stone. Brain physiology is set in stone. This physiology manifests in behavioural tendencies. Brain physiology is affected by sexual dimorphism, thus the tendencies have been reflected in our culture, society, and stereotypes about the sexes. From these ideas evolved what we know as gender. In a minority, sexual dimorphism can become mixed up during development, and this can manifest as transgenderism. Masculinity & femininity has become detached from biological sex as those who did not conform have become accepted, thus we have the modern male & female genders.

In case of misunderstanding:
Gender is the state of being male or female used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/

Thus, it is most certainly not just a stereotype, rendering your original statement demonstrably incorrect. If you wish to continue this banal line of thought about the whys and the wherefores, the wall is over there and is very interested in what you have to say - far more so than I am. I wished only to refute your obviously incorrect statement, and if you have no further thoughts of relevance, you are dismissed.

Explain to me the flaws in my position, and I will gladly correct my position.

[Condunum]

that is masculine androgyne

That doesn't make sense. Androgynous refers to a mixing of masculine and feminine traits.

Think in the way we use North, Northwest, North by Northwest...