Americans, Never Forget: December 7, 1941

[Estado Paulista]

But the Monroe Doctrine was never repealed, and was still technically in effect.

How does one repeal a doctrine? Anyway, technically yes. Pratically no. Using the Monroe Doctrine to justify the Japanese attack on the US is a little...odd and a sloppy attempt to do it. Everyone was well-aware the Monroe Doctrine was over. Japan probably wouldn't have used it as an excuse since they weren't very connected to what was happening in Europe. Or because they had their own Monroe Doctrine.

[Kanaria]

It was a brave attempt, but dumb, to try and wipe the enemy fleet off the map before it mobilized. The US aircraft carriers and subs were safe from the attack, which Japan forgot to take notice of. I think Isoroku Yamamoto was right to be cautious about fighting America.
Also, didn't he say, " I fear we have woken up a monstrous and sleeping giant" after Pearl Harbor?
The attack itself was a horrific tragedy. I shall never forget the attack either.

[Tuthina]

It was a brave attempt, but dumb, to try and wipe the enemy fleet off the map before it mobilized. The US aircraft carriers and subs were safe from the attack, which Japan forgot to take notice of. I think Isoroku Yamamoto was right to be cautious about fighting America.
Also, didn't he say, " I fear we have woken up a monstrous and sleeping giant" after Pearl Harbor?
The attack itself was a horrific tragedy. I shall never forget the attack either.

No. He probably thought something similar back then, in line of what he thought of the war in general, but the line itself came from a (very good) movie: Tora! Tora! Tora!

The Japanese also forgot to take into consideration of two things: the oil storage that can be used to power the fleet, and the fact that sinking ships in a shallow harbour means it is a lot easier to raise them and fuel them with the aforementioned oil. Well, to be fair, they did take consideration, but the latter cannot be easily solved, and the former is because the aircraft would have to land in night, which no one had tried before, if they continue the attack.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

But the Monroe Doctrine was never repealed, and was still technically in effect.

1: How does one repeal a doctrine? 2: Anyway, technically yes. Pratically no. Using the Monroe Doctrine to justify the Japanese attack on the US is a little...odd and a sloppy attempt to do it. Everyone was well-aware the Monroe Doctrine was over. Japan probably wouldn't have used it as an excuse since they weren't very connected to what was happening in Europe. Or because they had their own Monroe Doctrine.

1: I imagine the same way that a lawmaking body would repeal a normal law; but, then again, I ain't an expert on American politics.
2: Considering the fact that Japan had a pact with two European nations(Italy and the Third Reich), Japan could have easily used the Monroe Doctrine as an excuse to intervene against the US on behalf of their European allies.

[Estado Paulista]

1: I imagine the same way that a lawmaking body would repeal a normal law; but, then again, I ain't an expert on American politics.

Except it wasn't a law. It was a doctrine.

2: Considering the fact that Japan had a pact with two European nations(Italy and the Third Reich), Japan could have easily used the Monroe Doctrine as an excuse to intervene against the US on behalf of their European allies.

As I said, they wouldn't use it because they weren't well connected to what was happening to Europe
and because they had their own Monroe Doctrine. Using "they broke the Monroe Doctrine!" as an excuse to justify their attack wouldn't give them any legitimacy.

They wisely choosed the US' oil embargo on Japan as an excuse, because that would give them some legitimacy.

[Czechanada]

Didn't the US engineer a boycott of the oil shipments of Japan, thereby inflaming the Japanese?

[Katganistan]

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

Extremely less compared to the dropping of the little boy and fat man to Japan.

As horrific as they were, if you kick someone in the teeth, don't be surprised when you get your skull shattered by a lead pipe.

[Lianhua (Ancient)]

It happens. At least there are not many ネトヨウ in NSG.

I suppose that's some consolation, yes. Still doesn't make this any more pleasant. But oh well, America.

[Estado Paulista]

Didn't the US engineer a boycott of the oil shipments of Japan, thereby inflaming the Japanese?

Didn't Japan invade Indochina, thereby inflaming the US?

[Tuthina]

Didn't the US engineer a boycott of the oil shipments of Japan, thereby inflaming the Japanese?

It also cut the fuel towards the already-struggling Japanese war machine in China, along with other things.

[Katganistan]

More people died in individual firebombing raids.

The actions came with lovely repercussions of people still dying unnatural deaths related to radiation.

Because it wasn't a brand new weapon, and because everyone knew EXACTLY what the consequences would be.

[Capital Zealand]

Let's end war on terrorism and war on drugs and any other war out there by the use of nuclear weapons.

That is retarded my pal. But on the other hand, there is no peaceful way to tell terrorists than to stop bombing you then by taking action. I think that if we accept their cultures more whle working to fix their problems and suppressing their illegal actions and considering them simple criminals. We can get them to back down.

Also regarding your post abut Cannabis in the middle east, I hope you understand that the Middle East does not harbor the worst terrorist cells, nor the greatest drug industry.

I never said cannabis is prominent in Middle East. More like South America, as well as various other drugs. But yeah, I also apologized for letting feelings trample over my reasoning.

[Katganistan]

Yes, the US was a very isolationist country during most of its history.

After the Spanish-American War, the European nations noted the United States was beginning to emerge as a great power. That's when the American Isolationism and the Monroe Doctrine died.

That's why it's a little odd to use it as a justification. The America of the 1940's was well inside the world's affairs, differently from the America of the 1850's.

But the Monroe Doctrine was never repealed, and was still technically in effect.

So are sodomy laws in the US but do we see them enforced?

[Lianhua (Ancient)]

The actions came with lovely repercussions of people still dying unnatural deaths related to radiation.

It isn't cowardice but rather apathetic feelings for the well being of the Japanese populace by the United States.

Pretty much. The new technology had been tested - the Americans knew its potential - the firepower and repercussions of the bomb. They dropped two, and were planning to drop more.

[Czechanada]

These kinds of discussions always perturb me. This hasn't been the case of anyone on this thread, nor anyone on NSG for that matter, but when I hear a WWII discussion, I always see: "Americans and the Allies are the absolutely infallible good guys that did no wrong!"

[Estado Paulista]

It isn't cowardice but rather apathetic feelings for the well being of the Japanese populace by the United States.

Pretty much. The new technology had been tested - the Americans knew its potential. They dropped two, and were planning to drop more.

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

But the Monroe Doctrine was never repealed, and was still technically in effect.

So are sodomy laws in the US but do we see them enforced?

Um...'sodomy' laws in the US were universally repealed in 2003.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

[Benuty]

Pretty much. The new technology had been tested - the Americans knew its potential. They dropped two, and were planning to drop more.

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

With millions of dead young Americans and Japanese the president (Truman) would have been impeached by a massively pissed off generation of American parents come election time in 1946. Especially once the fact of the atomic bomb had been revealed to the greater public it would have been a relations disaster( to the Soviets) who would presumably be occupying the northern half of Japan.

[Vamtrl]

Ever heard of diplomacy and treaties? Let's end the war on terrorism the same way! Oh, and the war on drugs! How about that?

Aw you are so cute!

[Estado Paulista]

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

With millions of dead young Americans and Japanese the president (Truman) would have been impeached by an angry and massively pissed off generation of American parents come election time in 1946. Especially once the fact of the atomic bomb had been revealed to the greater public it would have been a relations disaster( to the Soviets) who would presumably be occupying the northern half of Japan.

Indeed. Dropping the bombs was the lesser of two evils.

[Lianhua (Ancient)]

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

Definitely, but a tragedy it was nonetheless. I suppose it's just hard to accept that something so horrific was still "the lesser of two evils".

[Benuty]

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

Definitely, but a tragedy it was nonetheless. I suppose it's just hard to accept that something so horrific was still "the lesser of two evils".

To be fair it avoided the possibility of a Korean-esque cluster situation in occupied Japan. Which was a certainty (considering the ideological extremes of Truman and Stalin in creating governments in occupied countries).

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

Definitely, but a tragedy it was nonetheless. I suppose it's just hard to accept that something so horrific was still "the lesser of two evils".

It is easy for me to except that stuff, when faced with one bad choice or another, you have to pick which is the less worse, especially if nothing else could do.

It was a Godzilla Threshold, and it sucked.

[Estado Paulista]

They could have gone with Operation Downfall. It would have been even bloodier, though.

Definitely, but a tragedy it was nonetheless. I suppose it's just hard to accept that something so horrific was still "the lesser of two evils".

I agree. But statistically, it was the lesser of two evils.

[The Serbian Empire]

Two imperialist powers run into each other with the Japanese doing a strategy-driven strike on the US. Gave Japan about a year of rampaging throughout the Pacific unchecked.