Americans, Never Forget: December 7, 1941

[Herskerstad]

Great idea on paper, terrible idea in practice. The Japanese would have been much better off declaring war on the USSR and forcing the Soviets to relocate forces from the Eastern Front.

That would have been tricky without suing for some kind of peace-meal with nationalist China. Their Asian mainland force stood stretched thin as it was.

[Cameroi]

america and great britain together put japan in a position, with their trans pacific agreement of that era, where it really didn't have a hell of a lot of other choice.

all of these kinds of things, it was our (america's) own prejudice that created these kinds of situations.

that's the thing we need to never forget. that the evil of prejudice begets the evil of war.

[Ursen]

america and great britain together put japan in a position, with their trans pacific agreement of that era, where it really didn't have a hell of a lot of other choice.

all of these kinds of things, it was our (america's) own prejudice that created these kinds of situations.

that's the thing we need to never forget. that the evil of prejudice begets the evil of war.

Only if you completely disregard the fact that Japan was invading China at the time, leading to the deaths of millions of Chinese.

How were sanctions not justified in that scenario?

[Vase]

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

Not as cowardly as a drone strike.

When your enemy uses force of arms without standing upon a field of honor, but takes his prey from the shadows like a beast in the night, then you hunt him accordingly.
The aggressor sets the rule, after all.

[Saiwania]

Any enmity that Japanese and Americans had for each other should be gone now. The bombing of Pearl Harbor was supposed to buy Imperial Japan plenty of time to capture and hold the Pacific before the US could manage to rebuild its Pacific fleet, the Japanese counted on the aircraft carriers being there. The attack could have gone better in that a third strike force was not sent which could have ensured that the fuel and torpedo depots were destroyed.

[The Victorian Empire]

While I agree that Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked attack by an imperialistic enemy, I highly doubt that Japanese deserved Nagasaki in the end.

It's not about if they deserved it or not, it's not about if it was the right thing to do or not, it was the only thing to do. The Japanese refused to surrender. They would've preferred having their country turned into a heaping rubble of corpses, fire, smoke, ash, and ruins than surrender. Invading the country would've resulted in even more death and destruction than the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

It was either wipe out two whole cities, or prolong an already tiring war by launching a campaign that would result in more cons than pros, and that's what makes it justified, even if it wasn't the most moral choice, it was the most logical choice.

[Geilinor]

Very much this. Its hard to think of something braver than taking on the US in a suicide attack.

Before somebody jumps on me for saying that, brave =/= good. Bank Robbers are brave, but they are a detriment to society.

This, it irks me when people connect bravery with being good.

This^. You can call people brave without agreeing with them.

[Geilinor]

america and great britain together put japan in a position, with their trans pacific agreement of that era, where it really didn't have a hell of a lot of other choice.

all of these kinds of things, it was our (america's) own prejudice that created these kinds of situations.

that's the thing we need to never forget. that the evil of prejudice begets the evil of war.

Japan wanted resources to fuel their expansion.

[Arumdaum]

Great idea on paper, terrible idea in practice. The Japanese would have been much better off declaring war on the USSR and forcing the Soviets to relocate forces from the Eastern Front.

The USSR didn't have oil there~

[Arumdaum]

It was a cowardly act. America would never do something like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war

[Arumdaum]

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

I somehow doubt you find the idea of a "preemptive strike" cowardly when countries you like do it

[Kistan]

Well, I forgive them nowadays. After all, near all modern Japanese aren't the ones who attacked us, and we got revenge with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Forgive but remember, that's my method.

[The Orson Empire]

Japan's preemptive strike on Pearl Harbor was a dumb move. They essentially fucked themselves when they decided to attack America.

[Norantron]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

[Geilinor]

It was a cowardly act. America would never do something like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war

Politicians have also been throwing around the idea of a "preemptive strike" on Iran. America would do something like that and has considered it often.

[Kistan]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

Unfortunately, it also fed its brother ideology.

[Timsvill]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

AHEM! THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH WITH AMERICA STOPPING FASCISM!

[Norantron]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

Unfortunately, it also fed its brother ideology.

I'm guessing you're talking about capitalism.

[ControlHQ]

Well, I forgive them nowadays. After all, near all modern Japanese aren't the ones who attacked us, and we got revenge with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Forgive but remember, that's my method.

The point of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings wasn't "revenge" (that was the Doolittle Raid ). The point was to cripple and scare a fanatical enemy into compliance with the Potsdam Declaration. They were terrible occurrences in human history, as was the whole war, but revenge isn't quite the word I'd use to define the higher goals of the war.

[Arumdaum]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

Unfortunately, it also fed its brother ideology.

Oh man, capitalism.

[Norantron]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

AHEM! THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH WITH AMERICA STOPPING FASCISM!

Well, at least America wasn't full blown fascist back then...

[Arumdaum]

Why they attacked America was beyond me.
I understand they cut off their oil supply, but they were steam rolling across Asia, the Chinese might as well have been shooting blanks at them.
What ever, its good thing for the human race though! It dragged America into the war helping to stop fascism.

Japan was to run out of oil in a year or two, and they needed oil supplies.

They thought of attacking British colonies such as Malaysia first, but it was thought that America would go to war with Japan regardless, so they tried to wipe out out the Pacific Fleet

or something like that

[Souseiseki]

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

I somehow doubt you find the idea of a "preemptive strike" cowardly when countries you like do it

i only just now made the connection between "people who think japan are cowards" and "people who think israel are smart and awesome" and it's really blowing my mind and i can't wait to see someone say it

[Geilinor]

I somehow doubt you find the idea of a "preemptive strike" cowardly when countries you like do it

i only just now made the connection between "people who think japan are cowards" and "people who think israel are smart and awesome" and it's really blowing my mind and i can't wait to see someone say it

They're the same people.

[Lemanrussland]

While I agree that Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked attack by an imperialistic enemy, I highly doubt that Japanese deserved Nagasaki in the end.

It's not about if they deserved it or not, it's not about if it was the right thing to do or not, it was the only thing to do. The Japanese refused to surrender. They would've preferred having their country turned into a heaping rubble of corpses, fire, smoke, ash, and ruins than surrender. Invading the country would've resulted in even more death and destruction than the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

It was either wipe out two whole cities, or prolong an already tiring war by launching a campaign that would result in more cons than pros, and that's what makes it justified, even if it wasn't the most moral choice, it was the most logical choice.

That was part of Truman's political calculation, yes, but he also wanted to intimidate the Soviets by displaying the capabilities of the weapon. He had actually boasted about the nuclear program to Stalin during the Yalta conference, who, much to Truman's chagrin, was not that impressed. He had already known about it, since Soviet intelligence had infiltrated the Manhattan project since at least 1942.

It should also be said that another huge (even bigger than the atomic bombings, in the estimation of the Japanese government) contributor to the Japanese surrender was the Soviet declaration of war and invasion of Manchuria and Korea in April 1945. The atomic bombings themselves, though impressive, actually didn't kill that many people compared to many of the other air raids conducted during the war (the famous March 9/10 1945 firebombing raid on Tokyo killed something like 80,000-100,000 people, and displaced over 1,000,000 others, making it comparable to each of the atomic bombings).

Would the Japanese have surrendered without the use of the atomic bombs? There was no way to tell at that point, and it's still debatable today (really, the only thing which pushed the Japanese cabinet into accepting surrender was the intervention of Hirohito, which probably wouldn't have happened without the atomic attacks).