Americans, Never Forget: December 7, 1941

[The Victorian Empire]

I didn't see a thread on this, so...

Fellow Americans, let us never forget that dreadful 7th day of December, when... "...the United States of America, was suddenly and deliberately attacked, by naval and air forces, of the Empire of Japan..." ...and how that date... "...will live in infamy..." ...in the minds of Americans for years to come. We were cowardly attacked, at the beginning of dawn, by an imperialistic power seeking to acquire resources to sustain itself by whatever means necessary, and for the next 4 years we hoped island after island in order to drive this warmongering menace back to where it came from, many of our soldiers going to hell and back. Finally, in those last few hours, when Fat Man was dropped on Nagasaki, and the Japanese Emperor Hirohito decided to end the war before more damage could be done. Let us never forget the men who died at Pearl Harbor.

Feel free to discuss the bombing of Pearl Harbor, but I know that threads about death tend to draw out trolls, flamers, and baiters. So I will say that if you get all warm and fuzzy about American servicemen dying at Pearl Harbor, you might as well keep those feelings to yourself. Nobody likes a douchebag.

[Ifreann]

American's what?

[Imperializt Russia]

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

[Karthalia]

Japan's tactics was Impressive,

First attacking, Pearl Harbor, then Attack a Major US ''Colony''; Philippines, I find it amusing how the Japanese handled The Americans and the Filipinos, wherein, though it took them Months to finally Control The Philippines, they Actually Destroyed Fort Bataan and Fort Correggidor, Killing Tens of thousands of Americans/Filipinos, its Really creepy to live on a place where WWII Happened...

[Galloism]

American's what?

Exactly what I was thinking.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

The Japanese attacks were not cowardly, but they were fucking stupid.

They were even warned, don't touch the US, our dick was just waiting to just fly open, sure the giving our allies tanks bit was good for a bit, but there were some who were just hoping that we could get some shit started.

And then in the most ironic ways imaginable, the tentacles of the US military industrial complex managed to grab a hold of poor, poor stupid Imperial Japan....


But no, let me get back to my real point, they were not cowardly, but they were definitely stupid.

There was nothing Japan could have done but win a defensive war, The United States rest within arguably one of the most easy to defend land masses in the world, while it falls short on history and possibly geography, the political landscape around the US makes it a bad idea to even try to fight the US.

Regardless, Pearl Harbor was a sad day, because it sparked the United States involvement in the war, which just increased the overall bloodshed that was spread.

The only real good that came from it was the United States rise as a super power from the war, because no matter the bad that occurred between the Cold War that would start afterwards, the advancements and such post WW2 lead to today, and I cannot see anything else that could be a better result.

It is sad that it happened, but right now, from what I know, I wouldn't have it any other way.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Oh yeah, and I just woke up, so I may sound stupid....

[The USOT]

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

Very much this. Its hard to think of something braver than taking on the US in a suicide attack.

Before somebody jumps on me for saying that, brave =/= good. Bank Robbers are brave, but they are a detriment to society.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

Very much this. Its hard to think of something braver than taking on the US in a suicide attack.

Before somebody jumps on me for saying that, brave =/= good. Bank Robbers are brave, but they are a detriment to society.

This, it irks me when people connect bravery with being good.

[Bezombia]

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

Indeed. A coward wouldn't think about attacking a major world power.

[Evil Lord Bane]

I'm reminded of what the Admiral of the fleet that bombed Pearl Harbor (Isoroku Yamamoto) was quoted with saying after the attack:
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

And he was right.

[The Victorian Empire]

American's what?

American's what?

Exactly what I was thinking.

Ah, thank you for pointing that out, my bad...

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm reminded of what the Admiral of the fleet that bombed Pearl Harbor (Isoroku Yamamoto) was quoted with saying after the attack:
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

And he was right.

I think a much better quote is that of the Emperor's radio address to Japan following the Hiroshima bombing.

"The war has developed, not necessarily to our advantage."

[The USOT]

Very much this. Its hard to think of something braver than taking on the US in a suicide attack.

Before somebody jumps on me for saying that, brave =/= good. Bank Robbers are brave, but they are a detriment to society.

This, it irks me when people connect bravery with being good.

To be fair, it does make sense. I mean we have medals and honours specifically for bravery. Bravery and good are practically so bound up together in modern culture that the idea of someone doing something bad that would require bravery forces cognitivly that its opposite must be the factor of evil. Literally, people do the whole opposites thing of "This guy is GOOD and Brave" so the bad guy must be "EVIL and COWARDLY". This mentality was often used to describe the 9/11 bombers, and frankly the meme has gone so far that saying "the brave terrorists" sounds like support.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

This, it irks me when people connect bravery with being good.

To be fair, it does make sense. I mean we have medals and honours specifically for bravery. Bravery and good are practically so bound up together in modern culture that the idea of someone doing something bad that would require bravery forces cognitivly that its opposite must be the factor of evil. Literally, people do the whole opposites thing of "This guy is GOOD and Brave" so the bad guy must be "EVIL and COWARDLY". This mentality was often used to describe the 9/11 bombers, and frankly the meme has gone so far that saying "the brave terrorists" sounds like support.

I know that well, and I understand that perfectly, I just mean from a general point in an average conversation.

[The Victorian Empire]

This, it irks me when people connect bravery with being good.

To be fair, it does make sense. I mean we have medals and honours specifically for bravery. Bravery and good are practically so bound up together in modern culture that the idea of someone doing something bad that would require bravery forces cognitivly that its opposite must be the factor of evil. Literally, people do the whole opposites thing of "This guy is GOOD and Brave" so the bad guy must be "EVIL and COWARDLY". This mentality was often used to describe the 9/11 bombers, and frankly the meme has gone so far that saying "the brave terrorists" sounds like support.

There's nothing brave about blowing yourself up.

Courage is the ability and willingness to confront fear, pain, danger, uncertainty, or intimidation.

Notice how it doesn't say "death".

Oh, and please don't derail.

[Tuthina]

I'm reminded of what the Admiral of the fleet that bombed Pearl Harbor (Isoroku Yamamoto) was quoted with saying after the attack:
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

And he was right.

Actually, he did not really say that. While it is recorded that Admiral Yamamoto is, among a few others, against starting a war with USA for reasons that are now obvious, there are no records of him saying that after the attack. On top of that, the attack was not supposed to be launched before the formal declaration of the war: the Japanese tried engineering it so that the attack happened just after the declaration of war was sent. Too bad they kind of failed the timing.

By the way, the line was quoted from Tora! Tora! Tora!, which is an awesome movie, and I have rewatched it just for the occasion.

-snip-

I do not think it was overly stupid a plan, seeing that Japan never really expected to win USA per se: it was relying on knocking the US navy from the table through the attack, forcing USA to a swift peace that stopped it from embargoing oil that Japan needed to fuel its war machine. In hindsight, it would probably have worked if the attack succeed in not only blowing up the carrier fleets, but also the oil storage, seeing that then USA would not only be left without a large enough fleet to continue the war for the while, but also without oil to fuel the rebuilt fleet for a while. Then Japan would be able to claim the Pacific ocean as its own backyard for quite a while, which might just be enough to force a truce.

[The Victorian Empire]

I'm reminded of what the Admiral of the fleet that bombed Pearl Harbor (Isoroku Yamamoto) was quoted with saying after the attack:
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

And he was right.

Actually, he did not really say that. While it is recorded that Admiral Yamamoto is, among a few others, against starting a war with USA for reasons that are now obvious, there are no records of him saying that after the attack. On top of that, the attack was not supposed to be launched before the formal declaration of the war: the Japanese tried engineering it so that the attack happened just after the declaration of war was sent. Too bad they kind of failed the timing.

By the way, the line was quoted from Tora! Tora! Tora!, which is an awesome movie, and I have rewatched it just for the occasion.

-snip-

I do not think it was overly stupid a plan, seeing that Japan never really expected to win USA per se: it was relying on knocking the US navy from the table through the attack, forcing USA to a swift peace that stopped it from embargoing oil that Japan needed to fuel its war machine. In hindsight, it would probably have worked if the attack succeed in not only blowing up the carrier fleets, but also the oil storage, seeing that then USA would not only be left without a large enough fleet to continue the war for the while, but also without oil to fuel the rebuilt fleet for a while. Then Japan would be able to claim the Pacific ocean as its own backyard for quite a while, which might just be enough to force a truce.

They also severely underestimated America's industrial capacity and prowess.

[Tuthina]

They also severely underestimated America's industrial capacity and prowess.

Well, to be fair, everyone else did as well. Japan just happened to be at the short end of the stick when USA mobilised.

[Estado Paulista]

Should I congratulate America? I'm confused.

[Imperializt Russia]

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

No. It's called a pre-emptive strike. It would have been how the Cold War went hot.
Besides, the strike was well after dawn and lasted for several hours. This is the time at which air defence troops should have been most alert. In fact, there were a series of points at which an attack could have been predicted and prepared for. All were either missed or outright ignored.

And, had Japanese intelligence correctly pinpointed the American carrier location, then it would have been a successful one.

Besides, assault is not the action of the coward.

[StellarGate]

American's what?

Exactly what I was thinking.

Ah, thank you for pointing that out, my bad...

What makes the Pearl Harbour attack "cowardly"?

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

The Japanese did try to deliver a declaration of war, the person typing it out didn't get it done before the attack

If that had been delivered, then It wouldn't have been as much of a surprise.

[The Victorian Empire]

They also severely underestimated America's industrial capacity and prowess.

Well, to be fair, everyone else did as well. Japan just happened to be at the short end of the stick when USA mobilised.

Actually, this seems to be a recurring event in American History. Every time we finish kicking somebody's ass, everybody is all like "Pfft, America, what are they gonna do?", and some fool decides to get involved in a war with us. I can't understand for the life of me why people underestimate America's resolve.

Should I congratulate America? I'm confused.

No, you should discuss/mourn. Depending on which you prefer.

[The Victorian Empire]

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

No. It's called a pre-emptive strike. It would have been how the Cold War went hot.
Besides, the strike was well after dawn and lasted for several hours. This is the time at which air defence troops should have been most alert. In fact, there were a series of points at which an attack could have been predicted and prepared for. All were either missed or outright ignored.

And, had Japanese intelligence correctly pinpointed the American carrier location, then it would have been a successful one.

Besides, assault is not the action of the coward.

Nobody thought the Japanese were stupid enough to attack the US, and if they did, they figured that the Philippines would be attacked first.

[The Victorian Empire]

So striking a country you're not at war with a sneak attack while most of them are sleeping isn't cowardly to you?

No. It's called a pre-emptive strike. It would have been how the Cold War went hot.
Besides, the strike was well after dawn and lasted for several hours. This is the time at which air defence troops should have been most alert. In fact, there were a series of points at which an attack could have been predicted and prepared for. All were either missed or outright ignored.

And, had Japanese intelligence correctly pinpointed the American carrier location, then it would have been a successful one.

Besides, assault is not the action of the coward.

Alright, point taken.