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Alternative medicine

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DesAnges
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Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:12 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Source? Also, doctors generally only prescribe medicines when the perceived benefit is seen to outweigh the harm.

:eyebrow: There is nothing to source.

I guess homeopathy would generally be better for your health than LSD, true.
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The Puritan Empire
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Puritan Empire » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Alternative medicines either have yet been proven to work; or has been proven not to work!
Alternative medicines that have been proven to work are called Medicine!

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Vanagon
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Founded: Dec 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

homeopathy

Postby Vanagon » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:14 pm

I have quite a lot of allergies and when I was young my eyes would often swell till I could not see anymore. Luckily my neighbor has a homeopathy clinic and afther I got some medicine my eyes hurt less and the swelling would gradually dissapear so I think it works.

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:16 pm

Vanagon wrote:I have quite a lot of allergies and when I was young my eyes would often swell till I could not see anymore. Luckily my neighbor has a homeopathy clinic and afther I got some medicine my eyes hurt less and the swelling would gradually dissapear so I think it works.


What you think is entirely irrelevant.
You are not a doctor, I trust. Or a biologist. Nor any type of scientist i'll bet.
Homeopathy has been consistently shown to be bullshit.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Vazdania
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Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:16 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Superiority is subjective.

So on what subjective basis did you determine homeopathy to be superior?

:eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is. How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:17 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So on what subjective basis did you determine homeopathy to be superior?

:eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is. How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.



1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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An All-Natural Nation
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Founded: Oct 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby An All-Natural Nation » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:17 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vazdania wrote: :eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is. How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.



1. Naturalistic Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.

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http://www.whale.to/b/pfeiffer_h.html
End industrial civilization! Dismantle the science-industrial complex!

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Geilinor
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Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:17 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So on what subjective basis did you determine homeopathy to be superior?

:eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is. How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.

Natural does not mean good.
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New Laikland
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Father Knows Best State

Postby New Laikland » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:18 pm

I'm not a big fan of it, really. I mean, doctors are too quick to give you a prescription for it. I prefer actual medicine, with herbs and whatnot.


/sarcasm

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:19 pm

An All-Natural Nation wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:

1. Naturalistic Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.

Image

http://www.whale.to/b/pfeiffer_h.html



Do you not understand what a source is?
Look mate.
We're at an impasse here.
You do not know what the hell you are doing, and you are clearly unable to debate properly. Go learn how sources work then come back.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:19 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So on what subjective basis did you determine homeopathy to be superior?

:eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is.

Homeopathy is entirely artificial, how is that superior?
How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.

Show that is helps one's immune system.

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Chishimotata
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Founded: Jun 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Chishimotata » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:19 pm

An All-Natural Nation wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:

1. Naturalistic Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.

Image

http://www.whale.to/b/pfeiffer_h.html

You... cited whale.to.

*invokes Scopie's Law* :rofl:

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Vazdania
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Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vazdania wrote: :eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is. How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.



1. Naturalistic Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.


1.) The naturalistic fallacy in this case is Irrelevant. Some people prefer natural over artificial, the "naturalness" of anything can serve as a basis for superiority.
2.) ...I never claimed anything helping your immune system? I said these things may be used to subjectively determine what is superior.

:eyebrow:
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Vazdania
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Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Vazdania wrote: :eyebrow: Things such as how natural vs artifical it is. How well it, in the future, helps your immune system....things like that.

Natural does not mean good.

To certain people it does. :eyebrow: As stated previously, its entirely subjective.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 57854
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:22 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:

1. Naturalistic Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.


1.) The naturalistic fallacy in this case is Irrelevant. Some people prefer natural over artificial, the "naturalness" of anything can serve as a basis for superiority.
2.) ...I never claimed anything helping your immune system? I said these things may be used to subjectively determine what is superior.

:eyebrow:


You literally just claimed it. You were asked on what basis YOU determine the superiority of homeopathy.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Vazdania
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Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:22 pm

Vanagon wrote:I have quite a lot of allergies and when I was young my eyes would often swell till I could not see anymore. Luckily my neighbor has a homeopathy clinic and afther I got some medicine my eyes hurt less and the swelling would gradually dissapear so I think it works.

While this is an isolated personal story, it just goes to show that it can work for some people.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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Vazdania
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Founded: Mar 06, 2011
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vazdania wrote:
1.) The naturalistic fallacy in this case is Irrelevant. Some people prefer natural over artificial, the "naturalness" of anything can serve as a basis for superiority.
2.) ...I never claimed anything helping your immune system? I said these things may be used to subjectively determine what is superior.

:eyebrow:


You literally just claimed it.

No i didn't. I was responding to a question about subjective superiority.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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The Godly Nations
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Founded: Jul 20, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Godly Nations » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 pm

It's all very amusing hookum, Alternative Medicine, why can't people be satisfied with more scientifically sound medicine like Homeopathy or TCM?

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:

1. Naturalistic Fallacy
2. Source on it helping your immune system. Preferably from a scientific journal.


1.) The naturalistic fallacy in this case is Irrelevant. Some people prefer natural over artificial, the "naturalness" of anything can serve as a basis for superiority.
2.) ...I never claimed anything helping your immune system? I said these things may be used to subjectively determine what is superior.

:eyebrow:

You said no such thing. I asked how you determined homeopathy to be superior. Here is your answer, in case you've forgotten.

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 57854
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Vanagon wrote:I have quite a lot of allergies and when I was young my eyes would often swell till I could not see anymore. Luckily my neighbor has a homeopathy clinic and afther I got some medicine my eyes hurt less and the swelling would gradually dissapear so I think it works.

While this is an isolated personal story, it just goes to show that it can work for some people.


So can placebos.
In all the same circumstances.
And placebos don't cost hundreds of dollars.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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An All-Natural Nation
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 180
Founded: Oct 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby An All-Natural Nation » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Vanagon wrote:I have quite a lot of allergies and when I was young my eyes would often swell till I could not see anymore. Luckily my neighbor has a homeopathy clinic and afther I got some medicine my eyes hurt less and the swelling would gradually dissapear so I think it works.

While this is an isolated personal story, it just goes to show that it can work for some people.

And unfortunately, the misguided obsession with "science" and "evidence" disregards these entirely true stories of homoeopathy and other natural treatments healing people, in favor of cold, impersonal allopathic chemical "medicines" that do nothing but poison you.
End industrial civilization! Dismantle the science-industrial complex!

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Vazdania
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Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:25 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Vazdania wrote:
1.) The naturalistic fallacy in this case is Irrelevant. Some people prefer natural over artificial, the "naturalness" of anything can serve as a basis for superiority.
2.) ...I never claimed anything helping your immune system? I said these things may be used to subjectively determine what is superior.

:eyebrow:

You said no such thing. I asked how you determined homeopathy to be superior. Here is your answer, in case you've forgotten.


These are two different things.

In the first instance I suggested homeopathy to be superior. In the second instance I was being questioned about subjective superiority. These two things are independent of one another.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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New Laikland
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Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby New Laikland » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:25 pm

I wonder if anybody realizes that medicine is mostly mental. You can give someone a sugar pill, convince them it's what they need, and it'll most likely work
Last edited by New Laikland on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57854
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 pm

An All-Natural Nation wrote:
Vazdania wrote:While this is an isolated personal story, it just goes to show that it can work for some people.

And unfortunately, the misguided obsession with "science" and "evidence" disregards these entirely true stories of homoeopathy and other natural treatments healing people, in favor of cold, impersonal allopathic chemical "medicines" that do nothing but poison you.


I weep for humanity.
You have access to the internet for fucks sake, how the hell can you be like this and still function? Did a scientist piss in your cheerios?
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Vazdania
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Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 pm

New Laikland wrote:I wonder if anybody realizes that medicine is mostly mental. You can give someone a sugar pill, convince them it's what they need, and it'll most likely work

OH HOT DAMN, you didn't just say that....prepare to be attacked by the left wing hive mind.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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