NationStates

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:47 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
That would be a start, yes.
As it is, there is nothing but scripture?

You cannot prove God by science you can only believe. If God sought to prove that He existed then he would come down in magnificence and show Himself to everyone but he does not. He asks us to believe and if you believe you shall be rewarded if you do not well good luck to you but hey Pope Francis says that even Atheists so long as their good can go to Heaven

He doesn't prove himself because he can't prove himself because he doesn't exist. It would be remarkably easy for him to prove himself if he actually existed.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:47 am**

Luveria wrote:
Menassa wrote:There's the Hebrew Scripture i.e. the Written Law and the Talmud i.e. the Oral Law.

That's the only point we're focusing on is God's gender... that one little segment on that whole page.

My point is, that isn't verifiable.

Let's not be positivists here.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:47 am**

With Teeth wrote:
Menassa wrote:Because implications aren't the same as actual discussion?

You don't want to talk about whether or not Yahweh is necessary for the existence of the universe because this isn't a thread about Yahweh. Fine then, ok. What I'm saying is that we can talk about it anyway because whether or not god is necessary for the existence of the universe relates obviously to the title of the thread and would be of interest to anyone who wants to know about the existence of the Christian god, or any god at all.

You are of course fully aware that the Jewish God and Christian God's are very different.... right?

Which is primarily the reason I've not said much in this thread.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:49 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
That would be a start, yes.
As it is, there is nothing but scripture?

You cannot prove God by science you can only believe. If God sought to prove that He existed then he would come down in magnificence and show Himself to everyone but he does not. He asks us to believe and if you believe you shall be rewarded if you do not well good luck to you but hey Pope Francis says that even Atheists so long as their good can go to Heaven

If you can't prove the existence of something then why should I believe it exists?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:49 am**

Menassa wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
You don't want to talk about whether or not Yahweh is necessary for the existence of the universe because this isn't a thread about Yahweh. Fine then, ok. What I'm saying is that we can talk about it anyway because whether or not god is necessary for the existence of the universe relates obviously to the title of the thread and would be of interest to anyone who wants to know about the existence of the Christian god, or any god at all.

You are of course fully aware that the Jewish God and Christian God's are very different.... right?

Which is primarily the reason I've not said much in this thread.

Nothing in my post required the statement that the Christian and Jewish god are the same beings. All I stated was that a discussion on whether or not god is necessary for the existence of the universe is pertinent to the thread, so dismissing it because it came out of a conversation about Yahweh isn't a good enough reason.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:49 am**

Luveria wrote:
21 Tribes wrote:
You cannot prove God by science you can only believe. If God sought to prove that He existed then he would come down in magnificence and show Himself to everyone but he does not. He asks us to believe and if you believe you shall be rewarded if you do not well good luck to you but hey Pope Francis says that even Atheists so long as their good can go to Heaven

If you can't prove the existence of something then why should I believe it exists?

That's why it is called FAITH.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:50 am**

With Teeth wrote:
Menassa wrote:You are of course fully aware that the Jewish God and Christian God's are very different.... right?

Which is primarily the reason I've not said much in this thread.

Nothing in my post required the statement that the Christian and Jewish god are the same beings. All I stated was that a discussion on whether or not god is necessary for the existence of the universe is pertinent to the thread, so dismissing it because it came out of a conversation about Yahweh isn't a good enough reason.

I believe it is, because it quickly branches into the universe's purpose, which is again entirely two different schools of thought based on almost two different God's

The discussion of the universe's creation does not begin or end with the creation of the universe.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:50 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
If you can't prove the existence of something then why should I believe it exists?

That's why it is called FAITH.

No. Give me one reason I should believe in the existence of something there is no evidence for?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:52 am**

Menassa wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
Nothing in my post required the statement that the Christian and Jewish god are the same beings. All I stated was that a discussion on whether or not god is necessary for the existence of the universe is pertinent to the thread, so dismissing it because it came out of a conversation about Yahweh isn't a good enough reason.

I believe it is, because it quickly branches into the universe's purpose, which is again entirely two different schools of thought based on almost two different God's

The discussion of the universe's creation does not begin or end with the creation of the universe.

No, it doesn't have anything to do with the universe's purpose. It has to do with cause, which is distinct from purpose.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:52 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
If you can't prove the existence of something then why should I believe it exists?

That's why it is called FAITH.

You and I both know that faith isn't enough.

I mean, having faith in anything without sufficient evidence is silly. Its like having faith that dragons exist.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:53 am**

With Teeth wrote:
Menassa wrote:I believe it is, because it quickly branches into the universe's purpose, which is again entirely two different schools of thought based on almost two different God's

The discussion of the universe's creation does not begin or end with the creation of the universe.

No, it doesn't have anything to do with the universe's purpose. It has to do with cause, which is distinct from purpose.

And directly leads into purpose, the reason for the cause i.e. the purpose.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:53 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
If you can't prove the existence of something then why should I believe it exists?

That's why it is called FAITH.

Coming up with a word for your irrationality doesn't make it any better.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:53 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
If you can't prove the existence of something then why should I believe it exists?

That's why it is called FAITH.

I thought Catholics didn't believe in Sola Fide?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:53 am**

Luveria wrote:
21 Tribes wrote:
That's why it is called FAITH.

No. Give me one reason I should believe in the existence of something there is no evidence for?

If you choose not to believe then fine that is your right as a human being. But don't call us idiots because we exercise that same right to believe in God as I see fit.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:54 am**

Menassa wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
No, it doesn't have anything to do with the universe's purpose. It has to do with cause, which is distinct from purpose.

And directly leads into purpose, the reason for the cause i.e. the purpose.

I'm not going to talk about the purpose; I don't care about the purpose. I'd just like to see one argument that god is necessary for the existence of the universe.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:54 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
No. Give me one reason I should believe in the existence of something there is no evidence for?

If you choose not to believe then fine that is your right as a human being. But don't call us idiots because we exercise that same right to believe in God as I see fit.

So do you have any evidence at all that God exists?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:55 am**

With Teeth wrote:
Menassa wrote:And directly leads into purpose, the reason for the cause i.e. the purpose.

I'm not going to talk about the purpose; I don't care about the purpose. I'd just like to see one argument that god is necessary for the existence of the universe.

Well then perhaps you shouldn't be on this forum, and out in the real world doing some research of your own, discussing it with a variety of people.

If you're really looking for that answer.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:55 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
No. Give me one reason I should believe in the existence of something there is no evidence for?

If you choose not to believe then fine that is your right as a human being. But don't call us idiots because we exercise that same right to believe in God as I see fit.

I'd call someone who believes in a magical invisible elephant as though it actually existed an idiot, isn't it a double standard to not do the same to those believing in God?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:55 am**

Menassa wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
I'm not going to talk about the purpose; I don't care about the purpose. I'd just like to see one argument that god is necessary for the existence of the universe.

Well then perhaps you shouldn't be on this forum, and out in the real world doing some research of your own, discussing it with a variety of people.

If you're really looking for that answer.

I can both at once.

Now, do you have an actual argument?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:55 am**

Menassa wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
I'm not going to talk about the purpose; I don't care about the purpose. I'd just like to see one argument that god is necessary for the existence of the universe.

Well then perhaps you shouldn't be on this forum, and out in the real world doing some research of your own, discussing it with a variety of people.

If you're really looking for that answer.

With Teeth DOES do his own research. He has an entire blog about this subject.

You however, are doing a rather poor job of dodging the question.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:56 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
No. Give me one reason I should believe in the existence of something there is no evidence for?

If you choose not to believe then fine that is your right as a human being. But don't call us idiots because we exercise that same right to believe in God as I see fit.

Believing in him doesn't make him real.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:58 am**

Mavorpen wrote:
Menassa wrote:Well then perhaps you shouldn't be on this forum, and out in the real world doing some research of your own, discussing it with a variety of people.

If you're really looking for that answer.

[...]

You however, are doing a rather poor job of dodging the question.

How is this not abundantly clear?

With Teeth wrote:
Menassa wrote:Well then perhaps you shouldn't be on this forum, and out in the real world doing some research of your own, discussing it with a variety of people.

If you're really looking for that answer.

I can both at once.

Now, do you have an actual argument?

Not for this thread.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:59 am**

Luveria wrote:
21 Tribes wrote:
If you choose not to believe then fine that is your right as a human being. But don't call us idiots because we exercise that same right to believe in God as I see fit.

So do you have any evidence at all that God exists?

I have my faith and for me that is all I need.

The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:59 am**

Menassa wrote:Not for this thread.

So you're just keeping it a secret or something?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:01 am**

21 Tribes wrote:
Luveria wrote:
So do you have any evidence at all that God exists?

I have my faith and for me that is all I need.

The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Allah is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

NationStates

Does the (Christian) God Exist?