Is Affirmative Action Racist?

[Saiwania]

And yet white males have higher average income, greater average wealth, lower unemployment, and greater overall social mobility than everyone else within society. Clearly, if there's some kind of systematic institutionalized policy of economic genocide against white males, it isn't working, now is it?

Asians have a higher household income than Whites in the US, I doubt their success was primarily brought about by affirmative action.

[Mavorpen]

And yet white males have higher average income, greater average wealth, lower unemployment, and greater overall social mobility than everyone else within society. Clearly, if there's some kind of systematic institutionalized policy of economic genocide against white males, it isn't working, now is it?

Asians have a higher household income than Whites in the US, I doubt their success was primarily brought about by affirmative action.

Well, no shit. That's because a majority of the Asian groups doing well have parents who have gone to college in another country and obtained graduate degrees then immigrated here. What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

[Geilinor]

Asians have a higher household income than Whites in the US, I doubt their success was primarily brought about by affirmative action.

What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

Apparently all minorities are the same and Asians are a monolithic group of college-educated professionals.

[Mavorpen]

What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

Apparently all minorities are the same and Asians are a monolithic group of college-educated professionals.

Well, the second part is slightly true. On a whole, Asians are more educated than whites. And yet, they make up a tiny percentage of the senior-level managers in Fortune 500 companies and are underrepresented in a wide arrange of jobs.

I mean, let's not forget that Asians were the first illegal immigrants in this country and faced a shit ton of discrimination and hardships. The notion that they haven't benefited from affirmative action nor do they need it is quite frankly, silly.

[Saiwania]

Well, no shit. That's because a majority of the Asian groups doing well have parents who have gone to college in another country and obtained graduate degrees then immigrated here. What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

That should be proof enough that minorities don't need affirmative action to succeed in America, devotion to education and discipline can easily trump any disadvantage from being of minority status. The Asian American community did not reach out a hand and whine for external assistance metaphorically speaking, instead they successfully out competed Whites and now enjoy the highest household income. Of all the non-Whites I'd have to live next to, Asians would be the most preferable judging from experience.

[Geilinor]

Well, no shit. That's because a majority of the Asian groups doing well have parents who have gone to college in another country and obtained graduate degrees then immigrated here. What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

That should be proof enough that minorities don't need affirmative action to succeed in America, devotion to education and discipline can easily trump any disadvantage from being of minority status. The Asian American community did not reach out a hand and whine for external assistance metaphorically speaking, instead they successfully out competed Whites and now enjoy the highest household income. Of all the non-Whites I'd have to live next to, Asians would be the most preferable judging from experience.

Many Asian-Americans went to college in another country and then immigrated here, which explains the rate of college-educated Asians.

[Blasveck]

Well, no shit. That's because a majority of the Asian groups doing well have parents who have gone to college in another country and obtained graduate degrees then immigrated here. What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

That should be proof enough that minorities don't need affirmative action to succeed in America, devotion to education and discipline can easily trump any disadvantage from being of minority status. The Asian American community did not reach out a hand and whine for external assistance metaphorically speaking, instead they successfully out competed Whites and now enjoy the highest household income. Of all the non-Whites I'd have to live next to, Asians would be the most preferable judging from experience.

Apparently all minorities are a monolithic group.

[Mavorpen]

That should be proof enough that minorities don't need affirmative action to succeed in America, devotion to education and discipline can easily trump any disadvantage from being of minority status.

Sorry, doesn't work that way.

These people who come to the country already have parents who are well off, can help them immensely with their school work, etc. They have a distinct advantage over minorities who are doomed to poor neighborhoods, poor education, lack of access to nutritious food, etc.

The Asian American community did not reach out a hand and whine for external assistance metaphorically speaking, instead they successfully out competed Whites and now enjoy the highest household income.

Uh... yes they did. Asian Americans have historically been one of the most discriminated against groups in American history. They have asked for government assistance, have received it, and still do support government assistance due to discrimination in the workplace.

[Geilinor]

That should be proof enough that minorities don't need affirmative action to succeed in America, devotion to education and discipline can easily trump any disadvantage from being of minority status.

Sorry, doesn't work that way.

These people who come to the country already have parents who are well off, can help them immensely with their school work, etc.

I can attest to that personally. Despite being a minority, my situation is nothing like someone who has poor parents, lives in a poor neighborhood, doesn't have access to good schools, etc.

[Mavorpen]

Sorry, doesn't work that way.

These people who come to the country already have parents who are well off, can help them immensely with their school work, etc.

I can attest to that personally. Despite being a minority, my situation is nothing like someone who has poor parents, lives in a poor neighborhood, doesn't have access to good schools, etc.

See, what he doesn't seem to understand is that these families immigrate here because of America's great policy which seeks out highly qualified immigrants (and it honestly is the primary reason for our STEM sector being as good as it is). Thus, comparing these families, who already have a significant advantage in education, income, etc. to minorities who are facing a disproportionate amount of problems against them, is naive.

[Geilinor]

I can attest to that personally. Despite being a minority, my situation is nothing like someone who has poor parents, lives in a poor neighborhood, doesn't have access to good schools, etc.

See, what he doesn't seem to understand is that these families immigrate here because of America's great policy which seeks out highly qualified immigrants (and it honestly is the primary reason for our STEM sector being as good as it is).

The policy is good, but there are countries that do it better.

[Saiwania]

See, what he doesn't seem to understand is that these families immigrate here because of America's great policy which seeks out highly qualified immigrants (and it honestly is the primary reason for our STEM sector being as good as it is). Thus, comparing these families, who already have a significant advantage in education, income, etc. to minorities who are facing a disproportionate amount of problems against them, is naive.

If they are so great, why didn't these immigrants stay in their own countries and improve their own countries' standard of living? Could it be because they could become richer in the US than they could back home, despite any ill treatment that could be gotten from the majority as outsiders?

[Mavorpen]

If they are so great, why didn't these immigrants stay in their own countries and improve their own countries' standard of living?

I can't give you an answer, because Asians aren't a hive mind.

Could it be because they could become richer in the US than they could back home, despite any ill treatment that could be gotten from the majority as outsiders?

Maybe. They could also have come from a country with an unstable government. Or were offered more stable jobs without necessarily caring about how "richer" they could be. There are quite a lot of factors.

Not sure what this has to do with my post, though.

[Geilinor]

See, what he doesn't seem to understand is that these families immigrate here because of America's great policy which seeks out highly qualified immigrants (and it honestly is the primary reason for our STEM sector being as good as it is). Thus, comparing these families, who already have a significant advantage in education, income, etc. to minorities who are facing a disproportionate amount of problems against them, is naive.

If they are so great, why didn't these immigrants stay in their own countries and improve their own countries' standard of living?

Direct yourself to brain drain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain Also, it should be fairly apparent that more educated people will tend to face less disdain from more established residents.

[Coccygia]

Why should they not accept people based on their qualifications rather than their race or gender? That seems rather fairer to me. But what do I know, I don't even know that universities are supposed to achieve "balance" at the expense of merit.

Universities are supposed to provide (among other things) an optimal environment for both research and education.

That does not necessarily mean accepting only the best students.

Why not?

[Coccygia]

Universities are supposed to provide (among other things) an optimal environment for both research and education.

That does not necessarily mean accepting only the best students.

Fuck, I know people who got higher GPAs than their peers but weren't accepted to universities because they didn't do any volunteer work at all.

Proving what, exactly?

[Norstal]

Well, no shit. That's because a majority of the Asian groups doing well have parents who have gone to college in another country and obtained graduate degrees then immigrated here. What, exactly, does that have to do with ASB's post, though?

That should be proof enough that minorities don't need affirmative action to succeed in America, devotion to education and discipline can easily trump any disadvantage from being of minority status. The Asian American community did not reach out a hand and whine for external assistance metaphorically speaking, instead they successfully out competed Whites and now enjoy the highest household income. Of all the non-Whites I'd have to live next to, Asians would be the most preferable judging from experience.

Where do black people came from? Where do Latinos came from? Because I'm pretty sure black people and Latinos don't come from a country like Japan or China where there's quality secondary-education and other opportunities.

[Mavorpen]

Universities are supposed to provide (among other things) an optimal environment for both research and education.

That does not necessarily mean accepting only the best students.

Why not?

Because your grades on tests in high school doesn't necessarily reflect how you contribute to the university.

Fuck, I know people who got higher GPAs than their peers but weren't accepted to universities because they didn't do any volunteer work at all.

Proving what, exactly?

Really? Within the context of the post I was responding to, you're really asking me what it proves?

Wow.

[The Dutch Crusader]

Poll numbers like this gives me hope.

[Vazdania]

Race-Based Affirmative Action is inherently racist.

[Mavorpen]

Race-Based Affirmative Action is inherently racist.

You've heard it here, folks. Giving minorities equal opportunity is racist.

[Vazdania]

Race-Based Affirmative Action is inherently racist.

You've heard it here, folks. Giving minorities equal opportunity is racist.

Equal rights? No. It gives them preferential treatment. Equality does not equate to retribution.

[Galloism]

You've heard it here, folks. Giving minorities equal opportunity is racist.

Equal rights? No. It gives them preferential treatment. Equality does not equate to retribution.

You have no idea what affirmative action actually does, do you?

[The Dutch Crusader]

Race-Based Affirmative Action is inherently racist.

Yep, I'd say people of low socio-economic status, whether they be black, hispanic, asian or even white, are more discriminated against than just ethnic minorities.

[Mavorpen]

You've heard it here, folks. Giving minorities equal opportunity is racist.

Equal rights? No. It gives them preferential treatment. Equality does not equate to retribution.

You've never read the Affirmative Action laws, have you?