Is Affirmative Action Racist?

[Mavorpen]

Tell me; can a poor white family of, ie: Albanian-Americans, be included in affirmative action?

...Of course.

EVERY race can be included in affirmative action. There is NO part of any affirmative action law barring white people from directly benefiting from affirmative action.

I said persuade, not enforce.

Uh...That's what I just said. Providing incentives is a form of persuasion.

I don't think eduation is irrelevant to racism and I thought you reffered to it in your last point. So, yeah ..my bad.

No, it's irrelevant to Affirmative Action. The topic isn't "racism."

[Camelza]

Tell me; can a poor white family of, ie: Albanian-Americans, be included in affirmative action?

...Of course.

EVERY race can be included in affirmative action. There is NO part of any affirmative action law barring white people from directly benefiting from affirmative action.

I now will go and hung my head in shame for being misinformed since I was told that it's only for special race groups.
It seems that I have nothing against it after all...

God, I feel dumb.

[Mavorpen]

...Of course.

EVERY race can be included in affirmative action. There is NO part of any affirmative action law barring white people from directly benefiting from affirmative action.

I now will go and hung my head in shame for being misinformed since I was told that it's only for special race groups.
It seems that I have nothing against it after all...

God, I feel dumb.

I don't blame you. People lying to others about what Affirmative Action entails is nothing new.

[Camelza]

I now will go and hung my head in shame for being misinformed since I was told that it's only for special race groups.
It seems that I have nothing against it after all...

God, I feel dumb.

I don't blame you. People lying to others about what Affirmative Action entails is nothing new.

Yeah, well, I guess I should've also checked an official source before starting being against anything.
Lazyness is a course that leads to ignorance.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

People on this thread confuse racism and race realism, what is hypocritical coming from so many who so often are eager to criticize modern American liberal thought when they themselves are doing the same line of reasoning that is responsible for so many of its alleged failures.

[Rationality and Truth]

Yes, I don't disagree with affirmative action as an idea, I just don't like that is based on race rather than income and family background.

That idea actually sounds okay.

[Coccygia]

Have fun.

Spam this a few more times and maybe these people will stop fucking arguing that affirmative action is unfair.

First, the article doesn't specify the race of the men, it just says "all races". In any case, the silly notion that "affirmative action helps white males", even if true, which I still very much dount (why would it be necessary to help white males?) is really neither here nor there - the issue is that giving people preferential treatment due to their race or gender is itself wrong. You have women losing out to less-qualified males to achieve an artificial "balance". What's so great about that?

[Alien Space Bats]

First, the article doesn't specify the race of the men, it just says "all races". In any case, the silly notion that "affirmative action helps white males", even if true, which I still very much dount (why would it be necessary to help white males?) is really neither here nor there - the issue is that giving people preferential treatment due to their race or gender is itself wrong. You have women losing out to less-qualified males to achieve an artificial "balance". What's so great about that?

Why do you persist in assuming that universities have a moral or legal obligation to accept only the best students for study?

You apparently haven't got the slightest clue as to what universities are supposed to achieve.

[Neuhausen]

It is racist against majority of the people. If there would be like 50-50 people from different race it would be understandable but not right now.

[Alien Space Bats]

It is racist against majority of the people. If there would be like 50-50 people from different race it would be understandable but not right now.

<le sigh>

Under the American implementation of affirmative action:

• Quotas are illegal.
  
  
• No one is ever expected or required to hire a less qualified candidate ahead of a more qualified one.
  
  
• Students who lack the ability to complete the expected course work and graduate do not have to be admitted.

Given these rules, how in the Hell can the practice be racist?

[Neuhausen]

It is racist against majority of the people. If there would be like 50-50 people from different race it would be understandable but not right now.

<le sigh>

Under the American implementation of affirmative action:

• Quotas are illegal.
  
  
• No one is ever expected or required to hire a less qualified candidate ahead of a more qualified one.
  
  
• Students who lack the ability to complete the expected course work and graduate do not have to be admitted.

Given these rules, how in the Hell can the practice be racist?

Why did they even make it in the first place then?

[Alien Space Bats]

Why did they even make it in the first place then?

Isn't it obvious?

<pause>

Because without it, qualified minority applicants tend to get overlooked in favor of less qualified white applicants.

[Neuhausen]

Why did they even make it in the first place then?

Isn't it obvious?

<pause>

Because without it, qualified minority applicants tend to get overlooked in favor of less qualified white applicants.

But if I'm owner why shouldn't I have a right to hire whom I want.

[Blasveck]

Isn't it obvious?

<pause>

Because without it, qualified minority applicants tend to get overlooked in favor of less qualified white applicants.

But if I'm owner why shouldn't I have a right to hire whom I want.

That right doesn't exist,nor should it.

[Saiwania]

I now will go and hung my head in shame for being misinformed since I was told that it's only for special race groups. It seems that I have nothing against it after all.

You're being misled I'm afraid, because while White males can benefit from affirmative action on paper, that generally never happens in real life. A White male is the physical embodiment of what multicultural society views as the privileged majority that can stand collective punishment for past historical wrongs against non-Whites. White guilt has most Whites agreeing with and cooperating with affirmative action policies.

[Caninope]

Isn't it obvious?

<pause>

Because without it, qualified minority applicants tend to get overlooked in favor of less qualified white applicants.

But if I'm owner why shouldn't I have a right to hire whom I want.

To the extent that you're not actively discriminating against someone on account of one of several things (including but not limited to race, creed, religion, national origin, ethnicity, marital status), sure.

One can even perhaps argue that employers are exercising said right through internal affirmative action policies.

[Alien Space Bats]

You're being misled I'm afraid, because while White males can benefit from affirmative action on paper, that generally never happens in real life. A White male is the physical embodiment of what multicultural society views as the privileged majority that can stand collective punishment for past historical wrongs against non-Whites. White guilt has most Whites agreeing with and cooperating with affirmative action policies.

And yet white males have higher average income, greater average wealth, lower unemployment, and greater overall social mobility than everyone else within society. Clearly, if there's some kind of systematic institutionalized policy of economic genocide against white males, it isn't working, now is it?

[Wind in the Willows]

Yes, affirmative action is very racist. It also damages the economy because it forces businesses to hire unskilled workers.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, affirmative action is very racist. It also damages the economy because it forces businesses to hire unskilled workers.

Wait, so how is a web designer who is better qualified from a minority - more so than the white, incompetent designer who has no portfolio - who is hired in a company because of affirmative action so bad?

[Neuhausen]

But if I'm owner why shouldn't I have a right to hire whom I want.

That right doesn't exist,nor should it.

It should exist. If it is private sector business then goverment should keep their hands away from it.

[Conservative Conservationists]

But if I'm owner why shouldn't I have a right to hire whom I want.

That right doesn't exist,nor should it.

Someone outside of a business, who has no experience running a business and will not be financially harmed if the business fails is not a suitable person to make choices that will impact that business.

The ideas of quotas are ridiculous. It could just happen that a business owner gets a sequence of stronger applications from (insert any word/s here) and the make up of the business reflects it.

If the company is viewed as racist, they will be punished by a change in consumer demand. There is no need to legislate it.

[Alien Space Bats]

It should exist. If it is private sector business then goverment should keep their hands away from it.

Sorry; I'm not buying the idea that private businesses have an unrestrained right to fuck the world over however they please in accordance with the doctrine of the Divine Right of Capital.

The ideas of quotas are ridiculous. It could just happen that a business owner gets a sequence of stronger applications from (insert any word/s here) and the make up of the business reflects it.

And under American law, that's just fine. Quotas are not a part of affirmative action in America; in fact, under American law, they're illegal.

If the company is viewed as racist, they will be punished by a change in consumer demand. There is no need to legislate it.

Consumers cannot always retaliate against businesses for practices that have nothing to do with the quality of the products they sell.

I'd love to stop patronizing Nike for their horrible labor practices abroad, but if they make the only shoe that fits properly over my wife's orthotic cast, then the cost of doing so becomes too great to bear (in this case, through the intense physical pain she must endure from not wearing her cast), and I am forced to just let their bullshit pass.

I'd love to stop patronizing BP in retaliation for their carelessness in conducting offshore drilling, but the fact is that their products are so co-mingled with everybody else's across the breadth and depth of the petroleum supply chain that I'd have to stop driving altogether, and that's just not practical.

I'd love to boycott Monsanto for their predatory practices in the agricultural market (particularly w/re to the marketing of GMO seeds and the despicable legal tactics they use to FORCE unwilling farmers to buy their products), but they're so damned big and their products are so damned pervasive that the only way to do it would be to starve to death.

Only libertarians live in some perfect world in which there is always a neat and clean business alternative that allows me to "vote" with my dollars in a pain-free way; in the REAL world, however, REAL needs force consumers, labor, and businesses to constantly compromise their ideals for the sake of everyday survival.

[Coccygia]

First, the article doesn't specify the race of the men, it just says "all races". In any case, the silly notion that "affirmative action helps white males", even if true, which I still very much dount (why would it be necessary to help white males?) is really neither here nor there - the issue is that giving people preferential treatment due to their race or gender is itself wrong. You have women losing out to less-qualified males to achieve an artificial "balance". What's so great about that?

Why do you persist in assuming that universities have a moral or legal obligation to accept only the best students for study?

You apparently haven't got the slightest clue as to what universities are supposed to achieve.

Why should they not accept people based on their qualifications rather than their race or gender? That seems rather fairer to me. But what do I know, I don't even know that universities are supposed to achieve "balance" at the expense of merit.

[Alien Space Bats]

Why should they not accept people based on their qualifications rather than their race or gender? That seems rather fairer to me. But what do I know, I don't even know that universities are supposed to achieve "balance" at the expense of merit.

Universities are supposed to provide (among other things) an optimal environment for both research and education.

That does not necessarily mean accepting only the best students.

[Mavorpen]

Why should they not accept people based on their qualifications rather than their race or gender? That seems rather fairer to me. But what do I know, I don't even know that universities are supposed to achieve "balance" at the expense of merit.

Universities are supposed to provide (among other things) an optimal environment for both research and education.

That does not necessarily mean accepting only the best students.

Fuck, I know people who got higher GPAs than their peers but weren't accepted to universities because they didn't do any volunteer work at all.