Is Affirmative Action Racist?

[Conservative Conservationists]

oh, you poor white people! yes it is racist but it is GOOD racism, its not about "keeping the white man down"(lol) its about helping everyone BUT the white man.

What makes helping everyone but the "white man" good?

The exact problem with it. Someone could have very successful or unsuccessful parents from any background. Unless there is a genetic difference (which I don't believe), the programs and assistance to help someone of a lower social class to succeed do not need to be different.

[Spartan Philidelphia]

What makes helping everyone but the "white man" good?

The exact problem with it. Someone could have very successful or unsuccessful parents from any background. Unless there is a genetic difference (which I don't believe), the programs and assistance to help someone of a lower social class to succeed do not need to be different.

I ultimately believe that the race issue is subsection of the class issue, but if you talk about class in America, you're a communist.

[Norstal]

Show me an instance of white males benefiting from AA. Or, better yet, some figures.

Have fun.

Spam this a few more times and maybe these people will stop fucking arguing that affirmative action is unfair.

[Alien Space Bats]

Ah affirmative action, the lovely system were degrees, experience, and actual qualifications are an extremely distant second to race, sex, and quotas. In my opinion it should be banned. If that means a man gets a pay raise instead of a woman, then so be it. If a white guy gets hired before a black man, then so be it. If a black man gets hired before a white woman, then so be it. Whoever got hired obviously had better qualifications and whoever got the pay raise earned it. That's my opinion anyway.

I mean, think of it like this. You own a company and you have to hire a either a black man or a woman every year. No problem right? Usually no, but sometimes the white guy just has more experience, or he has a Master's degree as opposed to the black guy's Bachelor's degree. The man might just be more of what you're looking for in an employee than the woman.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm all for equal rights for everybody, but making people hire you because you're this not that? Even if the person who is that might be better at the job? That's taking it a wee bit too far, wouldn't you say?

I don't know how things work elsewhere in the world, but in America you're ALWAYS allowed to hire the better qualified candidate.

Affirmative action comes into play only when deciding between EQUALLY QUALIFIED CANDIDATES; in that scenario (and that scenario ONLY) you're supposed to choose the candidate who will increase the level of workplace diversity. That means if you have too many women, you hire a man; if you have too many Asians, you hire someone who isn't Asian.

Affirmative action in the WORKPLACE never requires that you turn away a BETTER qualified candidate — EVER. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

Now, when it comes to admitting students, the rules are rather different. But that's partly because there is no easy way to predict academic success (grades, test scores, extracurricular activities, etc., are all fairly poor predictors of who will do well and who will do poorly in college); thus the student selection criteria often lean more towards creating diversity within the student body than simply recruiting the "best" students, in no small part because studies have shown that increasing diversity within the student body improves the academic experience for EVERYONE.

But then, students aren't the same thing as EMPLOYEES, are they? They're much more like CUSTOMERS — which means that dealing with all types of people is an important part of doing business in a multicultural society. After all, we don't restrict restaurants to just those people who have the best taste when it comes to dining, or book stores to the most accomplished readers, right?

Oh, and for the record: Quotas are illegal in the U.S.

[The Fascist American Empire]

Yes. As it is currently practiced in the United States

It forces employers to positively prove a negative (thus violating their civil rights).
(there is no evidence that you are racists/bigots but we will assume so and you must prove that your are not by following our arbitrary quota which assumes that you and everyone everywhere (within our jurisdiction, of course) is either racist or the victims of racism.)

Oh my gods.

It's hilarious how someone can claim Affirmative Action in the U.S. is racist and then utterly lie by claiming that quotas are practiced.

I'll give you a hint: quotas are *gasp* illegal and have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme court.

Then affirmative action must not exist.

Also, on a personal note, given the fact that you have over 45000 posts, I'm pretty sure that you have no life and should probably go outside more often. If you still can.

[Mavorpen]

Then affirmative action must not exist.

No, it exists.

[Xirtam]

I've got an idea that can prevent racial discrimination by employers without the use of "black quotas" and the like.
Create a law banning racial discrimination by employers and force employers to declare the race of their employees.
If a person applying for a job believes they have been discriminated against, they can take a courtcase against the employer for racial discrimination.
The judge/jury would use things such as the diversity of the employers workforce and the skills of other applicants and the skills of the person who got the job as evidence that the employer has or has not discriminated.
What's wrong with this?

[Alien Space Bats]

I've got an idea that can prevent racial discrimination by employers without the use of "black quotas" and the like.
Create a law banning racial discrimination by employers and force employers to declare the race of their employees.
If a person applying for a job believes they have been discriminated against, they can take a courtcase against the employer for racial discrimination.
The judge/jury would use things such as the diversity of the employers workforce and the skills of other applicants and the skills of the person who got the job as evidence that the employer has or has not discriminated.
What's wrong with this?

Congratulations.

What you have described is pretty much how things are done in America.

The more you know, eh?

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

Affirmative action is as racist as feminism is sexist, to which I answer: debatable. In my opinion, yes.

[Spartan Philidelphia]

Affirmative action is as racist as feminism is sexist, to which I answer: debatable. In my opinion, yes.

The 19th Amendment: SEXIST

[Constitutional Commonwealth]

Affirmative action is as racist as feminism is sexist, to which I answer: debatable. In my opinion, yes.

The 19th Amendment: SEXIST

Indeed. Not.

At that scenario, women were oppressed. In another where men would be oppressed, this amendment protects the men's right to vote as well. Nothing to do with feminism. Just egalitarianism.

[Aurora Novus]

Affirmative action is as racist as feminism is sexist, to which I answer: debatable. In my opinion, yes.

The 19th Amendment: SEXIST

Don't you love it when people meet arguments they disagree with with hyperbolic fallacies?

Because I don't.

[Rationality and Truth]

As a racial minority, I find affirmative action to be extremely racist since it implies that we are unable to rise up in society by ourselves like white people could. Many other people who are racial minorities feel the same way. I would be flat out infuriated if my race was a factor in me getting hired or promoted. Affirmative action has no place in a society that strives for true racial and gender equality.

It is interesting to note that most of the people I know who support affirmative are actually white liberals.

[Esternial]

It's racist, and I'd prefer anyone supporting it to stop bullshitting and claim they're all for equality.

Especially the people who want an excuse to have a self-gratifying wank because they helped "the poor minorities". Utterly disgusting.

[Mavorpen]

It's racist, and I'd prefer anyone supporting it to stop bullshitting and claim they're all for equality.

Especially the people who want an excuse to have a self-gratifying wank because they helped "the poor minorities". Utterly disgusting.

...what?

[Galloism]

It's racist, and I'd prefer anyone supporting it to stop bullshitting and claim they're all for equality.

Especially the people who want an excuse to have a self-gratifying wank because they helped "the poor minorities". Utterly disgusting.

...what?

More and more I'm convinced that people have absolutely no concept of what affirmative action is other than sound bites heard from drunk people in bars.

[Mavorpen]

...what?

More and more I'm convinced that people have absolutely no concept of what affirmative action is other than sound bites heard from drunk people in bars.

I want to believe it's satire. Really, I do.

[Camelza]

Yes, I don't disagree with affirmative action as an idea, I just don't like that is based on race rather than income and family background.

[Galloism]

More and more I'm convinced that people have absolutely no concept of what affirmative action is other than sound bites heard from drunk people in bars.

I want to believe it's satire. Really, I do.

Poe's Law, and all that.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, I don't disagree with affirmative action as an idea, I just don't like that is based on race rather than income and family background.

Why would we do it on income?

How would that address racial, gender, etc. discrimination?

[Camelza]

Yes, I don't disagree with affirmative action as an idea, I just don't like that is based on race rather than income and family background.

Why would we do it on income?

How would that address racial, gender, etc. discrimination?

Through better and free public education pherhaps?
Otherwise we just retain the idea that there are "different races" and that having a different colour on your skin means something in politics.

[Mavorpen]

Why would we do it on income?

How would that address racial, gender, etc. discrimination?

Through better and free public education pherhaps?
Otherwise we just retain the idea that there are "different races" and that having a different colour on your skin means something in politics.

...Why can't we do both? I mean, you do know our government can multitask, right?
And how exactly does ignoring it solve the fact that people are discriminated based on race?

I get it. Race doesn't exist. Repeating that, however, has no impact on the real world where the majority of people do believe race exists and discriminated based off of it.

[Camelza]

Through better and free public education pherhaps?
Otherwise we just retain the idea that there are "different races" and that having a different colour on your skin means something in politics.

...Why can't we do both? I mean, you do know our government can multitask, right?
And how exactly does ignoring it solve the fact that people are discriminated based on race?

We can do both, but I can't support a state policy that is racist(even positively). Biggoted individuals can be racist biggots if they want, but the state has no such right ...it should only try to persuade such individuals of the opposite with any means it has.

I get it. Race doesn't exist. Repeating that, however, has no impact on the real world where the majority of people do believe race exists and discriminated based off of it.

Pherhaps it doesn't help diretly, but education can solve many things permanently in the long run, that's just my opinion though.

[Mavorpen]

We can do both, but I can't support a state policy that is racist(even positively). Biggoted individuals can be racist biggots if they want, but the state has no such right

It's a good thing it isn't racist or bigoted.

...it should only try to persuade such individuals of the opposite with any means it has.

Congratulations, you support Affirmative Action.

Since, that what it entails. It entails proving incentives to companies to increase diversity in the workplace.

Pherhaps it doesn't help diretly, but education can solve many things permanently in the long run, that's just my opinion though.

This has utterly nothing to do with the part you quoted.

I said nothing about education, because education is completely irrelevant to this topic and my argument.

[Camelza]

We can do both, but I can't support a state policy that is racist(even positively). Biggoted individuals can be racist biggots if they want, but the state has no such right

It's a good thing it isn't racist or bigoted.

Tell me; can a poor white family of, ie: Albanian-Americans, be included in affirmative action?

...it should only try to persuade such individuals of the opposite with any means it has.

Congratulations, you support Affirmative Action.

Since, that what it entails. It entails proving incentives to companies to increase diversity in the workplace.

I said persuade, not enforce.

Pherhaps it doesn't help diretly, but education can solve many things permanently in the long run, that's just my opinion though.

This has utterly nothing to do with the part you quoted.

I said nothing about education, because education is completely irrelevant to this topic and my argument.

I don't think eduation is irrelevant to racism and I thought you reffered to it in your last point. So, yeah ..my bad.