Same-sex marriage ban referendum in Croatia

[Geilinor]

Do you even understand how important these are?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and ... ted_States

I stand corrected. What i ment to say was that there should be a way to file for all that, but it would not mention marriage, which has no place in government. Paperwork to fill out saying that you and another are engaged in a long-term relationship.

Why? That paperwork is civil marriage. I don't think you realize the separation between civil marriage and religious marriage that comes with a separation of church and state.

[Geilinor]

Why doesn't the European Parliament just pass a law legalizing same sex marriage in all member states? We wouldn't be having descriminatory referendums like this. Doesn't EU law trump a countries law? They could and should include in a provision that doesn't force religious institutions to preform same sex marriages.

They probably don't have a majority in favor of it. Even Germany and Finland, which are relatively progressive countries, don't have same-sex marriage yet.

[The Shia Califate]

Not necessarily. In America, gay marriage isn't in the constitution but it still illegal (at the federal level).

It's not illegal on the federal level. It's illegal or unconstitutional in some states.

It is illegal on the federal level...
"Defense of Marriage Act"

[Mavorpen]

It's not illegal on the federal level. It's illegal or unconstitutional in some states.

It is illegal on the federal level...
"Defense of Marriage Act"

Where the fuck have you been?

[Divair]

It is illegal on the federal level...
"Defense of Marriage Act"

Where the fuck have you been?

I was just about to say..

[Othelos]

It's not illegal on the federal level. It's illegal or unconstitutional in some states.

It is illegal on the federal level...
"Defense of Marriage Act"

DOMA was ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS five months ago.

[Caladaria]

A torrent of messages on a very controversial issue...That is the life of society: controversy and debate. My arguments were not rants: they were an expression of my viewpoints. And I would dare defy any person who claims that homosexuals have suffered as much as Jews, or African-Americans, or Native Americans, or other racial minorities and religious sects......I know there are the Islamic countries which outlaw homosexual marriage, but I also know that discrimination against homosexuals, in the West, has been exaggerated to absurd levels.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

A torrent of messages on a very controversial issue...That is the life of society: controversy and debate. My arguments were not rants: they were an expression of my viewpoints. And I would dare defy any person who claims that homosexuals have suffered as much as Jews, or African-Americans, or Native Americans, or other racial minorities and religious sects......I know there are the Islamic countries which outlaw homosexual marriage, but I also know that discrimination against homosexuals, in the West, has been exaggerated to absurd levels.

Homosexuals are murdered by the government in about three different countries, thrown in prison in about two dozen more, have massive amounts of violence conducted against them across most of the world, and have significantly less rights than heterosexuals in the majority of the world. I call bullshit on that claim.

[Caladaria]

A torrent of messages on a very controversial issue...That is the life of society: controversy and debate. My arguments were not rants: they were an expression of my viewpoints. And I would dare defy any person who claims that homosexuals have suffered as much as Jews, or African-Americans, or Native Americans, or other racial minorities and religious sects......I know there are the Islamic countries which outlaw homosexual marriage, but I also know that discrimination against homosexuals, in the West, has been exaggerated to absurd levels.

Homosexuals are murdered by the government in about three different countries, thrown in prison in about two dozen more, have massive amounts of violence conducted against them across most of the world, and have significantly less rights than heterosexuals in the majority of the world. I call bullshit on that claim.

There you go again with your rudeness...but what I say is that in the United States, the discrimination endured by African-Americans, Native Americans, and other ethnic minorities was a major social and political issue throughout the history of the United States. For over two hundred years, African-Americans were subjected to slavery, and for a further hundred years afterwards, to racial discrimination and Jim Crowism. Even today, their economic condition is still worse then that of whites; whereas Native Americans were driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. All of the land in the American continent was theirs before the white man came and took it over......You may say that homosexuals have suffered as much in the United States as have these minorities, and women, but I would challenge that claim. And to also consider the fact that slavery, the Indian Wars, Jim Crowism, the suffrage movement, were always more prominent in American history then this crusade for gay rights.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Homosexuals are murdered by the government in about three different countries, thrown in prison in about two dozen more, have massive amounts of violence conducted against them across most of the world, and have significantly less rights than heterosexuals in the majority of the world. I call bullshit on that claim.

There you go again with your rudeness...but what I say is that in the United States, the discrimination endured by African-Americans, Native Americans, and other ethnic minorities was a major social and political issue throughout the history of the United States. For over two hundred years, African-Americans were subjected to slavery, and for a further hundred years afterwards, to racial discrimination and Jim Crowism. Even today, their economic condition is still worse then that of whites; whereas Native Americans were driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. All of the land in the American continent was theirs before the white man came and took it over......You may say that homosexuals have suffered as much in the United States as have these minorities, and women, but I would challenge that claim. And to also consider the fact that slavery, the Indian Wars, Jim Crowism, the suffrage movement, were always more prominent in American history then this crusade for gay rights.

Two guys having sex was illegal in most of the United States until 2003, when Lawrence VS Texas passed into effect. Same-sex couples have no government recognition in the entirety of the Southeast US, can only marry in about fifteen states, and homosexuals have far less equality when it comes to matters such as adopting kids. And these problems have lasted until today; three centuries of government repression is much more suffering than half a century of slavery, a few decades of racial segregation, imperialistic ambitions against certain nations, or minor discrimination against Jews.

[The Shia Califate]

There you go again with your rudeness...but what I say is that in the United States, the discrimination endured by African-Americans, Native Americans, and other ethnic minorities was a major social and political issue throughout the history of the United States. For over two hundred years, African-Americans were subjected to slavery, and for a further hundred years afterwards, to racial discrimination and Jim Crowism. Even today, their economic condition is still worse then that of whites; whereas Native Americans were driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. All of the land in the American continent was theirs before the white man came and took it over......You may say that homosexuals have suffered as much in the United States as have these minorities, and women, but I would challenge that claim. And to also consider the fact that slavery, the Indian Wars, Jim Crowism, the suffrage movement, were always more prominent in American history then this crusade for gay rights.

Two guys having sex was illegal in most of the United States until 2003, when Lawrence VS Texas passed into effect. Same-sex couples have no government recognition in the entirety of the Southeast US, can only marry in about fifteen states, and homosexuals have far less equality when it comes to matters such as adopting kids. And these problems have lasted until today; three centuries of government repression is much more suffering than half a century of slavery, a few decades of racial segregation, imperialistic ambitions against certain nations, or minor discrimination against Jews.

Like the anti-sodomy laws were even enforced.

[Liriena]

Two guys having sex was illegal in most of the United States until 2003, when Lawrence VS Texas passed into effect. Same-sex couples have no government recognition in the entirety of the Southeast US, can only marry in about fifteen states, and homosexuals have far less equality when it comes to matters such as adopting kids. And these problems have lasted until today; three centuries of government repression is much more suffering than half a century of slavery, a few decades of racial segregation, imperialistic ambitions against certain nations, or minor discrimination against Jews.

Like the anti-sodomy laws were even enforced.[/quote]
Often, they were enforced, and even today gay men are marginalized, assaulted and even killed, sometimes by the state, sometimes by private citizens. To claim that the oppression suffered by LGBT people in America was in any way minor is beyond despicable.

Oh, and while we are at it...

You may say that homosexuals have suffered as much in the United States as have these minorities, and women, but I would challenge that claim. And to also consider the fact that slavery, the Indian Wars, Jim Crowism, the suffrage movement, were always more prominent in American history then this crusade for gay rights.

I just love simplistic, uninformed and sugar-coatedly dehumanizing bullshit such as this.

[Caladaria]

There you go again with your rudeness...but what I say is that in the United States, the discrimination endured by African-Americans, Native Americans, and other ethnic minorities was a major social and political issue throughout the history of the United States. For over two hundred years, African-Americans were subjected to slavery, and for a further hundred years afterwards, to racial discrimination and Jim Crowism. Even today, their economic condition is still worse then that of whites; whereas Native Americans were driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. All of the land in the American continent was theirs before the white man came and took it over......You may say that homosexuals have suffered as much in the United States as have these minorities, and women, but I would challenge that claim. And to also consider the fact that slavery, the Indian Wars, Jim Crowism, the suffrage movement, were always more prominent in American history then this crusade for gay rights.

Two guys having sex was illegal in most of the United States until 2003, when Lawrence VS Texas passed into effect. Same-sex couples have no government recognition in the entirety of the Southeast US, can only marry in about fifteen states, and homosexuals have far less equality when it comes to matters such as adopting kids. And these problems have lasted until today; three centuries of government repression is much more suffering than half a century of slavery, a few decades of racial segregation, imperialistic ambitions against certain nations, or minor discrimination against Jews.

You, my sir, have twisted the facts! Might I remind you that slavery came into existence in the United States c. 1640-1690s and that it lasted for about two hundred years, until, by the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution in 1865, it was finally abolished. This only after a extensive Civil War which claimed the lives of over 600,000 Americans and tore the United States apart. After a decade of Reconstruction, which ended in failure, Jim Crowism began to be implemented all across the South, from 1877 onwards, and by the end of the nineteenth century, had set up a system of racial discrimination against African-Americans. Jim Crowism lasted unchallenged for almost sixty years, from 1896 until 1954, when Brown v. Board of Education struck the first blow against the system. It took a further decade and a half of the Civil Rights Movement before Jim Crowism as a whole was stricken down and blacks were guaranteed their full civil and political rights. Even today, the legacies of slavery and Jim Crowism continue to impact African-American's health conditions, standards of living, and economic well-being. Indians, from the time that white men stepped in Jamestown in 1607, to the end of the Indian Conflicts in 1890, were progressively driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. Many died at the hands of Union troops and lost the land which they and their ancestors had held for thousands of years. And also, the minor discrimination against Jews ushered in the greatest atrocity in the history of the world: the Holocaust. How could you ignore such a horrific event as that? And only fifteen states...gay rights have only emerged as a major issue within the last half-century, and were not of any concern before the 1960s. Thus, Sir, your arguments are filled with errors and with such lies.

[New Acardia]

Churches should have the right to deny same-sex marriages.

And interracial marriages, and marriages between blond haired and black haired people, and marriages between people who are 5 feet tall and 6 feet tall...
How about no? If two guys or two girls want to have a religious wedding ceremony, churches shouldn't be able to deny them the right.

Yeat you don't want churh leaders speak out on issues.
But you are ok with the state forcing churches to go against there teachings?
I am I correct in my understanding?

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Two guys having sex was illegal in most of the United States until 2003, when Lawrence VS Texas passed into effect. Same-sex couples have no government recognition in the entirety of the Southeast US, can only marry in about fifteen states, and homosexuals have far less equality when it comes to matters such as adopting kids. And these problems have lasted until today; three centuries of government repression is much more suffering than half a century of slavery, a few decades of racial segregation, imperialistic ambitions against certain nations, or minor discrimination against Jews.

You, my sir, have twisted the facts! Might I remind you that slavery came into existence in the United States c. 1640-1690s and that it lasted for about two hundred years, until, by the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution in 1865, it was finally abolished. This only after a extensive Civil War which claimed the lives of over 600,000 Americans and tore the United States apart. After a decade of Reconstruction, which ended in failure, Jim Crowism began to be implemented all across the South, from 1877 onwards, and by the end of the nineteenth century, had set up a system of racial discrimination against African-Americans. Jim Crowism lasted unchallenged for almost sixty years, from 1896 until 1954, when Brown v. Board of Education struck the first blow against the system. It took a further decade and a half of the Civil Rights Movement before Jim Crowism as a whole was stricken down and blacks were guaranteed their full civil and political rights. Even today, the legacies of slavery and Jim Crowism continue to impact African-American's health conditions, standards of living, and economic well-being. Indians, from the time that white men stepped in Jamestown in 1607, to the end of the Indian Conflicts in 1890, were progressively driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. Many died at the hands of Union troops and lost the land which they and their ancestors had held for thousands of years. And also, the minor discrimination against Jews ushered in the greatest atrocity in the history of the world: the Holocaust. How could you ignore such a horrific event as that? And only fifteen states...gay rights have only emerged as a major issue within the last half-century, and were not of any concern before the 1960s. Thus, Sir, your arguments are filled with errors and with such lies.

Homosexuality had been illegal since the British Empire. About six centuries worth of repression, persecution, and hate by the government and society is worth much more than a war or two and a few decades of having less civil rights than white people. Oh, and frankly, the Holocaust happened in Europe; and homosexuals were killed in it.

[Liriena]

Two guys having sex was illegal in most of the United States until 2003, when Lawrence VS Texas passed into effect. Same-sex couples have no government recognition in the entirety of the Southeast US, can only marry in about fifteen states, and homosexuals have far less equality when it comes to matters such as adopting kids. And these problems have lasted until today; three centuries of government repression is much more suffering than half a century of slavery, a few decades of racial segregation, imperialistic ambitions against certain nations, or minor discrimination against Jews.

You, my sir, have twisted the facts! Might I remind you that slavery came into existence in the United States c. 1640-1690s and that it lasted for about two hundred years, until, by the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution in 1865, it was finally abolished. This only after a extensive Civil War which claimed the lives of over 600,000 Americans and tore the United States apart. After a decade of Reconstruction, which ended in failure, Jim Crowism began to be implemented all across the South, from 1877 onwards, and by the end of the nineteenth century, had set up a system of racial discrimination against African-Americans. Jim Crowism lasted unchallenged for almost sixty years, from 1896 until 1954, when Brown v. Board of Education struck the first blow against the system. It took a further decade and a half of the Civil Rights Movement before Jim Crowism as a whole was stricken down and blacks were guaranteed their full civil and political rights. Even today, the legacies of slavery and Jim Crowism continue to impact African-American's health conditions, standards of living, and economic well-being. Indians, from the time that white men stepped in Jamestown in 1607, to the end of the Indian Conflicts in 1890, were progressively driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. Many died at the hands of Union troops and lost the land which they and their ancestors had held for thousands of years. And also, the minor discrimination against Jews ushered in the greatest atrocity in the history of the world: the Holocaust. How could you ignore such a horrific event as that? And only fifteen states...gay rights have only emerged as a major issue within the last half-century, and were not of any concern before the 1960s. Thus, Sir, your arguments are filled with errors and with such lies.

That's one visually pleasing piece of point-missing rambling.

Do tell, though... for how long was homosexuality illegal, and often punishable by death, in the Western hemisphere?

[Fascist Russian Empire]

And interracial marriages, and marriages between blond haired and black haired people, and marriages between people who are 5 feet tall and 6 feet tall...
How about no? If two guys or two girls want to have a religious wedding ceremony, churches shouldn't be able to deny them the right.

Yet you don't want church leaders speak out on issues.
But you are okay with the state forcing churches to go against their teachings?
I am I correct in my understanding?

If said teachings are harmful to society, then yes.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Can we please stop dick-waving the suffering of others to make a point?

Everyone has suffered equally under the majority, there is no reason to believe even the left-handed people have suffered less discrimination than everyone else.

I am left handed, so how many of you think it took for people to stop looking at left-handed people like rejects?! I mean, you gotta be kidding me if you guys are making statements based on the suffering of others. I thought we were past that stage but I see that once the political hammer comes along everyone wants to show off how much "our field" has been discriminated against. You can make a relevant statement using the fact a population has been discriminated against for centuries, but not to make a dick-waving contest.

[Caladaria]

You, my sir, have twisted the facts! Might I remind you that slavery came into existence in the United States c. 1640-1690s and that it lasted for about two hundred years, until, by the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution in 1865, it was finally abolished. This only after a extensive Civil War which claimed the lives of over 600,000 Americans and tore the United States apart. After a decade of Reconstruction, which ended in failure, Jim Crowism began to be implemented all across the South, from 1877 onwards, and by the end of the nineteenth century, had set up a system of racial discrimination against African-Americans. Jim Crowism lasted unchallenged for almost sixty years, from 1896 until 1954, when Brown v. Board of Education struck the first blow against the system. It took a further decade and a half of the Civil Rights Movement before Jim Crowism as a whole was stricken down and blacks were guaranteed their full civil and political rights. Even today, the legacies of slavery and Jim Crowism continue to impact African-American's health conditions, standards of living, and economic well-being. Indians, from the time that white men stepped in Jamestown in 1607, to the end of the Indian Conflicts in 1890, were progressively driven off their lands and forced onto reservations. Many died at the hands of Union troops and lost the land which they and their ancestors had held for thousands of years. And also, the minor discrimination against Jews ushered in the greatest atrocity in the history of the world: the Holocaust. How could you ignore such a horrific event as that? And only fifteen states...gay rights have only emerged as a major issue within the last half-century, and were not of any concern before the 1960s. Thus, Sir, your arguments are filled with errors and with such lies.

Homosexuality had been illegal since the British Empire. About six centuries worth of repression, persecution, and hate by the government and society is worth much more than a war or two and a few decades of having less civil rights than white people. Oh, and frankly, the Holocaust happened in Europe; and homosexuals were killed in it.

I disagree with you........You do not understand what racial minorities had to through...probably because you are not one who could understand....And I know homosexuals died in the Holocaust, but in very small numbers compared to Jews. Slavery was far more oppressive then the treatment of homosexuals in the United States.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Homosexuality had been illegal since the British Empire. About six centuries worth of repression, persecution, and hate by the government and society is worth much more than a war or two and a few decades of having less civil rights than white people. Oh, and frankly, the Holocaust happened in Europe; and homosexuals were killed in it.

I disagree with you........You do not understand what racial minorities had to through...probably because you are not one who could understand....And I know homosexuals died in the Holocaust, but in very small numbers compared to Jews. Slavery was far more oppressive then the treatment of homosexuals in the United States.

And you wouldn't understand what sexual minorities go through, since you ain't one of us. Seriously, homosexuality was punishable by death in most of the world for a millenia, is still illegal in about a third of the world, and society is rarely LGBT friendly. Even if racial and religious minorities have suffered a lot throughout history, sexual minorities have been the most hated.

But this is all kind of pointless; arguing over whom has been discriminated against the most.

[Liriena]

Homosexuality had been illegal since the British Empire. About six centuries worth of repression, persecution, and hate by the government and society is worth much more than a war or two and a few decades of having less civil rights than white people. Oh, and frankly, the Holocaust happened in Europe; and homosexuals were killed in it.

I disagree with you........You do not understand what racial minorities had to through...probably because you are not one who could understand....And I know homosexuals died in the Holocaust, but in very small numbers compared to Jews. Slavery was far more oppressive then the treatment of homosexuals in the United States.

Ah, yes... because homosexuals weren't jailed and/or killed just for being homosexuals back in those days. By the way, I find your appeal to numbers in your statement regarding the Holocaust extremely offensive, on top of, frankly, quite stupid.

[Caladaria]

I disagree with you........You do not understand what racial minorities had to through...probably because you are not one who could understand....And I know homosexuals died in the Holocaust, but in very small numbers compared to Jews. Slavery was far more oppressive then the treatment of homosexuals in the United States.

Ah, yes... because homosexuals weren't jailed and/or killed just for being homosexuals back in those days. By the way, I find your appeal to numbers in your statement regarding the Holocaust extremely offensive, on top of, frankly, quite stupid.

You and Fascist Russian Empire still do not seem to understand.....I was referring to the Holocaust as a terrible, horrible incident which far surpasses the discrimination endured by homosexuals.......And I detest the fact that you truly believe that homosexual treatment was the same as slavery. Slavery aroused much concern and was the most inhumane institution to ever exist in the United States.....And no, sexual minorities have not been the most hated. Can you explain all of the racism against African-Americans? I don't think so, judging from what you have already stated....

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Ah, yes... because homosexuals weren't jailed and/or killed just for being homosexuals back in those days. By the way, I find your appeal to numbers in your statement regarding the Holocaust extremely offensive, on top of, frankly, quite stupid.

You and Fascist Russian Empire still do not seem to understand.....I was referring to the Holocaust as a terrible, horrible incident which far surpasses the discrimination endured by homosexuals.......And I detest the fact that you truly believe that homosexual treatment was the same as slavery. Slavery aroused much concern and was the most inhumane institution to ever exist in the United States.....And no, sexual minorities have not been the most hated. Can you explain all of the racism against African-Americans? I don't think so, judging from what you have already stated....

1: The Holocaust happened in the period of about a decade. Repression of homosexuals has taken place over the course of a thousand years and is still going on.
2: Racism is quite rare in modern times; homophobia is incredibly common and is widely accepted across the world.

[Menassa]

You and Fascist Russian Empire still do not seem to understand.....I was referring to the Holocaust as a terrible, horrible incident which far surpasses the discrimination endured by homosexuals.......And I detest the fact that you truly believe that homosexual treatment was the same as slavery. Slavery aroused much concern and was the most inhumane institution to ever exist in the United States.....And no, sexual minorities have not been the most hated. Can you explain all of the racism against African-Americans? I don't think so, judging from what you have already stated....

1: The Holocaust happened in the period of about a decade. Repression of homosexuals has taken place over the course of a thousand years and is still going on.
[...]

Not that I'm participating in this rather odd debate but the persecution of Jews didn't start or end with the Holocaust.

[Caladaria]

1: The Holocaust happened in the period of about a decade. Repression of homosexuals has taken place over the course of a thousand years and is still going on.
[...]

Not that I'm participating in this rather odd debate but the persecution of Jews didn't start or end with the Holocaust.

Which is what I was trying to say....but.....in response to Fascist Russian Empire, the repression of the Jews took place over that time period and longer....