Same-sex marriage ban referendum in Croatia

[Menassa]

Churches could easily have racist or homophobic pastors that refuse to conduct interracial or same-sex marriages. If the government doesn't force churches to give equal opportunities, things like that could happen.

Churches should have the right to deny same-sex marriages.

They do?

[Petacada]

There shouldn't be marriage benefits.

Do you even understand how important these are?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and ... ted_States

Right to benefits while married:
Employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges
Per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating
Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)
Sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits
Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
Veteran's disability
Supplemental Security Income
Disability payments for federal employees
Medicaid
Property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
Income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
Wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax[3]
Joint and family-related rights:
Joint filing of bankruptcy permitted
Joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records
Family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
Next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
Custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce
Domestic violence intervention
Access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods
Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs
Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.
Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime
Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse
Court notice of probate proceedings
Domestic violence protection orders
Existing homestead lease continuation of rights
Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption
Funeral and bereavement leave
Joint adoption and foster care
Joint tax filing
Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society
Legal status with stepchildren
Making spousal medical decisions
Spousal non-resident tuition deferential waiver
Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
Right of survivorship of custodial trust
Right to change surname upon marriage
Right to enter into prenuptial agreement
Right to inheritance of property
Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)
For those divorced or widowed, the right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits, including:
Social Security pension
Veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing
survivor benefits for federal employees
Survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers
Additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease
$100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty
Continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits
Renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse
Continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances
Payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death
Making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts

I stand corrected. What i ment to say was that there should be a way to file for all that, but it would not mention marriage, which has no place in government. Paperwork to fill out saying that you and another are engaged in a long-term relationship.

[San Lumen]

Why doesn't the European Parliament just pass a law legalizing same sex marriage in all member states? We wouldn't be having descriminatory referendums like this. Doesn't EU law trump a countries law? They could and should include in a provision that doesn't force religious institutions to preform same sex marriages.

[Petacada]

Churches should have the right to deny same-sex marriages.

They do?

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

[4years]

Churches could easily have racist or homophobic pastors that refuse to conduct interracial or same-sex marriages. If the government doesn't force churches to give equal opportunities, things like that could happen.

Churches should have the right to deny same-sex marriages.

Churches don't have anything to do with marriages.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

They do?

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

Oh boo hoo, let me play you a sad song on the world's smallest violin.
A church doesn't like homosexuals? Too fucking bad.

[Menassa]

They do?

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

Some churches yes, some others willingly marry homosexuals.

[Divair]

I stand corrected. What i ment to say was that there should be a way to file for all that, but it would not mention marriage, which has no place in government. Paperwork to fill out saying that you and another are engaged in a long-term relationship.

There's no reason to replace marriage with another system that is exactly the same as marriage.

[4years]

They do?

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

1. Churches don't marry anyone, period. Marriage is a legal matter conducted by the government.
2. People are not injured, discriminated against, or otherwise harmed by Muslims not eating pork.

[Divair]

Why doesn't the European Parliament just pass a law legalizing same sex marriage in all member states? We wouldn't be having descriminatory referendums like this. Doesn't EU law trump a countries law? They could and should include in a provision that doesn't force religious institutions to preform same sex marriages.

Were it so easy.

[4years]

Why doesn't the European Parliament just pass a law legalizing same sex marriage in all member states? We wouldn't be having descriminatory referendums like this. Doesn't EU law trump a countries law? They could and should include in a provision that doesn't force religious institutions to preform same sex marriages.

Were it so easy.

It is: the UDHR requires marriage equality. All that is required is to start forcing signatories to comply.

[Divair]

Were it so easy.

It is: the UDHR requires marriage equality. All that is required is to start forcing signatories to comply.

Again, were it so easy.

[Petacada]

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

1. Churches don't marry anyone, period. Marriage is a legal matter conducted by the government.
2. People are not injured, discriminated against, or otherwise harmed by Muslims not eating pork.

Pork farmers are

[Fascist Russian Empire]

1. Churches don't marry anyone, period. Marriage is a legal matter conducted by the government.
2. People are not injured, discriminated against, or otherwise harmed by Muslims not eating pork.

Pork farmers are

And grocery stores suffer when I eat fast food instead of buying groceries.

[Petacada]

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

Some churches yes, some others willingly marry homosexuals.

Exactly. So why force the ones who wont perform the ceremony when there are places to go that will willingly perform the marriages?

[Petacada]

Pork farmers are

And grocery stores suffer when I eat fast food instead of buying groceries.

Your proving my point for me

[Volantyz]

Croatia votes on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage?

Therefore, under the current law, gays can marry?

Fascist Russian Empire wrote:
Churches could easily have racist or homophobic pastors that refuse to conduct interracial or same-sex marriages. If the government doesn't force churches to give equal opportunities, things like that could happen.

Unfortunately, they can. It would be nice to abolish Religion, but Freedom of Worship is a right because without that right, you get tyranny.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Croatia votes on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage?

Therefore, under the current law, gays can marry?

Fascist Russian Empire wrote:
Churches could easily have racist or homophobic pastors that refuse to conduct interracial or same-sex marriages. If the government doesn't force churches to give equal opportunities, things like that could happen.

Unfortunately, they can. It would be nice to abolish Religion, but Freedom of Worship is a right because without that right, you get tyranny.

Or just force religious establishments to recognize LGBT rights? Religion ain't a problem, just homophobic religious people.

[The Shia Califate]

Croatia votes on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage?

Therefore, under the current law, gays can marry?

Fascist Russian Empire wrote:
Churches could easily have racist or homophobic pastors that refuse to conduct interracial or same-sex marriages. If the government doesn't force churches to give equal opportunities, things like that could happen.

Unfortunately, they can. It would be nice to abolish Religion, but Freedom of Worship is a right because without that right, you get tyranny.

Not necessarily. In America, gay marriage isn't in the constitution but it still illegal (at the federal level).

[Petacada]

Unfortunatly, i must go. Thank you everyone for this very thought provoking debate. While my basic views remain unchanged, there are certain points that i will definitley be considering.

[The Tundra]

Croatia votes on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage?

Therefore, under the current law, gays can marry?



Unfortunately, they can. It would be nice to abolish Religion, but Freedom of Worship is a right because without that right, you get tyranny.

Or just force religious establishments to recognize LGBT rights? Religion ain't a problem, just homophobic religious people.

social norms should take care of that

i can't even think of a church that is willing to put its reputation on the line and refuse an interracial couple to marry.

[Menassa]

Some churches yes, some others willingly marry homosexuals.

Exactly. So why force the ones who wont perform the ceremony when there are places to go that will willingly perform the marriages?

They don't?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes! Forcing churches to marry gays would be the same as forcing muslims to eat pork.

1. Churches don't marry anyone, period. Marriage is a legal matter conducted by the government..

I would very certainly like a source for this.

As far as I know churches have been marrying people for centuries. However, if you can prove that matrimony is not the same as marriage then be my guest.

[Othelos]

Croatia votes on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage?

Therefore, under the current law, gays can marry?



Unfortunately, they can. It would be nice to abolish Religion, but Freedom of Worship is a right because without that right, you get tyranny.

Not necessarily. In America, gay marriage isn't in the constitution but it still illegal (at the federal level).

It's not illegal on the federal level. It's illegal or unconstitutional in some states.

[4years]

1. Churches don't marry anyone, period. Marriage is a legal matter conducted by the government..

I would very certainly like a source for this.

As far as I know churches have been marrying people for centuries. However, if you can prove that matrimony is not the same as marriage then be my guest.

Marriage is a legal contract ratified and enforced by governmental authority. People are married by judges, not priests. A religious ceremony is nothing but a private affair with no significance to the government, bearing on the benefits received, or influence over the reconciliation of marriage whatsoever.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/marriage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage