Iran Agrees to Nuke Deal

[Virana]

Nobody can argue with that, but if we can't prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons diplomatically, don't you think that we must go to all means necessary. I mean an Iran with the ability to wipe all life off Earth isn't a reassuring thought.

China and Russia both have nuclear weapons, and neither of them are too fond of us. And no, not really. Just because Iran has a nuclear program doesn't mean that we are going to f****** invade and have another Iraq "WMD" war. We're going to get there, and there is going to be nothing there, and America is going to get caught with it's pants down again.

That is the American way

[Frisivisia]

You do understand that the new leader who agreed to this deal is supported by Khamenei and Khamenei is heavily against nuclear weapons, right?

I was referring solely to the idea of getting rid of Israel. Khamenei is known for his famous quote, ""this cancerous tumor of a state [Israel] should be removed from the region", thus he is undoubtedly in line with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the issue of Israel.

Do you have a source for that quote, and how does saying that Israel is bad and ought not be a sovereign state equate to "BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB"?

[Gauthier]

I was referring solely to the idea of getting rid of Israel. Khamenei is known for his famous quote, ""this cancerous tumor of a state [Israel] should be removed from the region", thus he is undoubtedly in line with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the issue of Israel.

Do you have a source for that quote, and how does saying that Israel is bad and ought not be a sovereign state equate to "BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB"?

It's the same way that disagreeing with anything about Israel makes you a Neo-Nazi.

[Conkerials]

China and Russia both have nuclear weapons, and neither of them are too fond of us. And no, not really. Just because Iran has a nuclear program doesn't mean that we are going to f****** invade and have another Iraq "WMD" war. We're going to get there, and there is going to be nothing there, and America is going to get caught with it's pants down again.

That is the American way

And quite frankly I'm sad to say that that is true, and I'm getting sick of it.

[Kylistan]

This was said by Mahmoud Ahmadinejed At "The World Without Zionism" conference in Tehran. Although he is no longer President, his ideas are in line with those of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.

Source? He certainly rants against the "Zionist regime", but I've heard him calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map". If you think about it, that's a rather impossible statement for him anyway since Ahmadinejad doesn't speak English. The idiom "to wipe off the map" is of course not applicable in any other language, so it should be of no surprise that Ahmadinejad hasn't used it.

This seems to be well in line with the general propoganda that seems to disseminate itself around the west. This idea that Ahmadinejad is mentally unstable, that Iran will bomb the hell out of Israel if given even half the chance. It's nonsense, but makes it much easier to justify sanctions and the sort of harsh threats that are leveled on a regular basis.

If Iran wants nuclear power, they have every right to it. If they also want a nuclear bomb, I can hardly blame them. I too would want some sort of insurance against invasion if I felt threatened and reviled by most of the world. The real way to prevent Iran from wanting to bolster its military is to stop threatening it with invasion, but that's hard to do when everyone has been told it's a hotbed of unstable, violent, extremeism. This deal, while far from perfect, is a good first step. It's nice to see a POTUS that doesn't see resorting to threats and violence as a first option.

The quote about Israel being wiped off the map is on slide 9. He claims it was misinterpreted, but even if this is the case, the meaning is still very similar. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/13/irans-president-mahmoud-a_n_3434408.html

[Frisivisia]

Do you have a source for that quote, and how does saying that Israel is bad and ought not be a sovereign state equate to "BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB"?

It's the same way that disagreeing with anything about Israel makes you a Neo-Nazi.

Two State Solution = Hitler

Hitler = Obama

Obama = Satan

Satan = Muslim God

Islam = Hinduism

Because of math, I'm pretty sure that the two state solution is directly equivalent to pledging allegiance to BRAHMA. That, my friends, is communism.

[Kylistan]

He also has a great quote about nuclear inspections on slide 7.

[Tekania]

This was said by Mahmoud Ahmadinejed At "The World Without Zionism" conference in Tehran. Although he is no longer President, his ideas are in line with those of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.

Source? He certainly rants against the "Zionist regime", but I've heard him calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map". If you think about it, that's a rather impossible statement for him anyway since Ahmadinejad doesn't speak English. The idiom "to wipe off the map" is of course not applicable in any other language, so it should be of no surprise that Ahmadinejad hasn't used it.

This seems to be well in line with the general propoganda that seems to disseminate itself around the west. This idea that Ahmadinejad is mentally unstable, that Iran will bomb the hell out of Israel if given even half the chance. It's nonsense, but makes it much easier to justify sanctions and the sort of harsh threats that are leveled on a regular basis.

If Iran wants nuclear power, they have every right to it. If they also want a nuclear bomb, I can hardly blame them. I too would want some sort of insurance against invasion if I felt threatened and reviled by most of the world. The real way to prevent Iran from wanting to bolster its military is to stop threatening it with invasion, but that's hard to do when everyone has been told it's a hotbed of unstable, violent, extremeism. This deal, while far from perfect, is a good first step. It's nice to see a POTUS that doesn't see resorting to threats and violence as a first option.

You're hitting the nail on the head. All he is doing is parroting poor cases of journalism misquoting his remarks. Iran considers the Israeli government and occupying regime on Palestinian land, and the remarks are directed at the regime (government) not the land. It would do no good to nuke the place in Iran's mind, as the idea is the removal of an occupying government, not the obliteration of the territory. They certainly wouldn't win any point for the ones they ally with to make the land unlivable and useless.

[Pope Joan]

The next step has to be for Netanyahu to be outraged.

Outraged!

He's all worked up for it already, no matter what kind of deal it turned out to be.

[Kylistan]

Source? He certainly rants against the "Zionist regime", but I've heard him calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map". If you think about it, that's a rather impossible statement for him anyway since Ahmadinejad doesn't speak English. The idiom "to wipe off the map" is of course not applicable in any other language, so it should be of no surprise that Ahmadinejad hasn't used it.

This seems to be well in line with the general propoganda that seems to disseminate itself around the west. This idea that Ahmadinejad is mentally unstable, that Iran will bomb the hell out of Israel if given even half the chance. It's nonsense, but makes it much easier to justify sanctions and the sort of harsh threats that are leveled on a regular basis.

If Iran wants nuclear power, they have every right to it. If they also want a nuclear bomb, I can hardly blame them. I too would want some sort of insurance against invasion if I felt threatened and reviled by most of the world. The real way to prevent Iran from wanting to bolster its military is to stop threatening it with invasion, but that's hard to do when everyone has been told it's a hotbed of unstable, violent, extremeism. This deal, while far from perfect, is a good first step. It's nice to see a POTUS that doesn't see resorting to threats and violence as a first option.

You're hitting the nail on the head. All he is doing is parroting poor cases of journalism misquoting his remarks. Iran considers the Israeli government and occupying regime on Palestinian land, and the remarks are directed at the regime (government) not the land. It would do no good to nuke the place in Iran's mind, as the idea is the removal of an occupying government, not the obliteration of the territory. They certainly wouldn't win any point for the ones they ally with to make the land unlivable and useless.

Obviously based on what they have said they would rather see the land as useless as opposed to being under the control of those evil Zionists.

[Kylistan]

The next step has to be for Netanyahu to be outraged.

Outraged!

He's all worked up for it already, no matter what kind of deal it turned out to be.

(Image)

You are correct. As expected Netanyahu has already denounced the deal (of which the general public still knows nothing about) according to an updated Yahoo! article.

[Ipriziah]

I see it as "peace in our time". The fact is, you can't trust insane people. They put restrictions on what Hitler could do but he broke those restrictions and caused the largest war in human history. The Ayatollah of Iran is who is in charge, the president is an elected puppet. The Iranian government has stated in the past that it wants to usher in the Messiah. It also has stated it wants to wipe Israel off the map. I simply don't trust religious nut cases with nuclear weapons. Pakistan is a democracy and is not run by religious nut cases. It is bad enough that North Korea was able to obtain such weapons, now it is impossible to get rid of without having a massive environmental disaster.

Just remember Neville Chamberlain, Adolph Hitler, and Peace in Our Time.

[Tekania]

The next step has to be for Netanyahu to be outraged.

Outraged!

He's all worked up for it already, no matter what kind of deal it turned out to be.

(Image)

You are correct. As expected Netanyahu has already denounced the deal (of which the general public still knows nothing about) according to an updated Yahoo! article.

That's not news.... "Uncompromising undiplomatic hardliner doesn't support deal.... sun rises tommorrow, water declared wet".

[Avenio]

Depending on what's in the deal it is a win-win for everyone. However, if we are giving Iran access to money that they will subsequently poor back into their nuclear program because the deal doesn't do enough to hinder the program, then Iran wins and we lose.

The money won't go into their nuclear weapons program because neither Iran or the West's diplomats and leaders are stupid. Iran was the one who reached out to the US in the first place to get this, after the election of Rouhani opened the door in Iranian politics.

Again, even if the weapons aren't dismantled right this second, the fact that negotiations are happening and that both sides are being productive is an enormous step forward. It means that Iran will no longer feel so isolated that it can't negotiate to deal with events like the Syrian civil war, and it decreases Iran's need to develop nuclear weapons in the first place.

EDIT: Plus it makes Netanyahu look like even more like an ineffectual jingoistic blowhard than he already is, which is a bonus.

[Ipriziah]

Depending on what's in the deal it is a win-win for everyone. However, if we are giving Iran access to money that they will subsequently poor back into their nuclear program because the deal doesn't do enough to hinder the program, then Iran wins and we lose.

The money won't go into their nuclear weapons program because neither Iran or the West's diplomats and leaders are stupid. Iran was the one who reached out to the US in the first place to get this, after the election of Rouhani opened the door in Iranian politics.

Again, even if the weapons aren't dismantled right this second, the fact that negotiations are happening and that both sides are being productive is an enormous step forward. It means that Iran will no longer feel so isolated that it can't negotiate to deal with events like the Syrian civil war, and it decreases Iran's need to develop nuclear weapons in the first place.

And if they do it secretly? They are playing the western nations and it is brutal to watch. It is the same thing that Hitler did.

[Jamjai]

It's a loss because the only thing that we know about the deal right now is that if Iran complies to whatever it needs to (this is unknown by the general public) they will receive access to money currently frozen in foreign funds. If these restrictions on their nuclear program aren't strict enough, then we will essentially have given them extra money to add to their nuclear power program.

That sounds stupid. Y would iran waste all their money on just on the nuclear program

[Avenio]

And if they do it secretly?

Why would they do that? Developing nuclear weapons only works as a diplomatic 'stick' if people know about it.

They are playing the western nations and it is brutal to watch. It is the same thing that Hitler did.

Not in the least. Iran is in a position of weakness here, and extending an olive branch allows them to achieve the policy goals they need (like dealing with their chronic energy shortages and infrastructure problems) without losing face to the hardliners.

[Kylistan]

It's a loss because the only thing that we know about the deal right now is that if Iran complies to whatever it needs to (this is unknown by the general public) they will receive access to money currently frozen in foreign funds. If these restrictions on their nuclear program aren't strict enough, then we will essentially have given them extra money to add to their nuclear power program.

That sounds stupid. Y would iran waste all their money on just on the nuclear program

Because that is there top priority. Do you really believe that they will put it towards welfare or education?

[Kylistan]

And if they do it secretly?

Why would they do that? Developing nuclear weapons only works as a diplomatic 'stick' if people know about it.

They are playing the western nations and it is brutal to watch. It is the same thing that Hitler did.

Not in the least. Iran is in a position of weakness here, and extending an olive branch allows them to achieve the policy goals they need (like dealing with their chronic energy shortages and infrastructure problems) without losing face to the hardliners.

Because when they have developed nuclear weapons (even if they do so in secrecy), they have the ultimate bargaining chip in negotiations.

[New Embossia]

I doubt they're going to follow through.

[Avenio]

That sounds stupid. Y would iran waste all their money on just on the nuclear program

Because that is there top priority. Do you really believe that they will put it towards welfare or education?

Their top priority is dealing with chronic poverty, infrastructure problems and energy shortages - and that's where this aid money is going to be earmarked to go, in all likelihood.

[Kylistan]

Well It was a pleasure debating all of you. Feel free to continue debate, but I will be heading to bed. For those of us in America, I wish you and your families all a happy Thanksgiving.

[Kazakhstangapore]

Deleted

[Jamjai]

Because that is there top priority. Do you really believe that they will put it towards welfare or education?

They will need improve their economy first especially after the santions and conditions in iran

[Avenio]

Because when they have developed nuclear weapons (even if they do so in secrecy), they have the ultimate bargaining chip in negotiations.

Holding a gun to your head and demanding that other people do things is really not the best way to go about negotiating.