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Iran Agrees to Nuke Deal

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Kylistan
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Postby Kylistan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:05 pm

Tekania wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
So then what would the policies be of your ideal Prime Minister of Israel?


One who would seek an honest end to the Palestinian issue. One willing to make some concessions for peace in the region. Or in short the Israeli PM most likely to get assassinated by his own people.


What sorts of concessions?
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Auxatia
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Postby Auxatia » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:05 pm

I support the US in its efforts with Iran, I myself being explicitly Pro-American, even though I am from Australia, where most people aren't really that bothered. I believe negotiation is key, but we must always have our eyes open, as well as our hearts.

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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:08 pm

So, where would the deal be nuked? Iran? Nevada? Bikini Atoll? Russia?

On a serious note, congrats Iran.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:08 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Tekania wrote:
I've generally felt the same about Israeli leadership going back decades.


So then what would the policies be of your ideal Prime Minister of Israel?

Rabin or someone from Meretz.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:10 pm

Tekania wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
So then what would the policies be of your ideal Prime Minister of Israel?


One who would seek an honest end to the Palestinian issue. One willing to make some concessions for peace in the region. Or in short the Israeli PM most likely to get assassinated by his own people.

Rabin :(

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:11 pm

Divair wrote:
Tekania wrote:
One who would seek an honest end to the Palestinian issue. One willing to make some concessions for peace in the region. Or in short the Israeli PM most likely to get assassinated by his own people.

Rabin :(

There's always Meretz
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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:16 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Tekania wrote:
One who would seek an honest end to the Palestinian issue. One willing to make some concessions for peace in the region. Or in short the Israeli PM most likely to get assassinated by his own people.


What sorts of concessions?


Concessions are things made when negotiating between two powers over something in order to reach a deal. As such that question cannot be answered except in specific circumstances and in specific negotiations. If you want an example of something that ISN'T a concession, it would be Israeli's idea of a complete dismantling of all nuclear assets in Iran and a refusal to participate in anything but a unilateral surrender of Iran on that issue.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Kylistan
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Postby Kylistan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:20 pm

Tekania wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
What sorts of concessions?


Concessions are things made when negotiating between two powers over something in order to reach a deal. As such that question cannot be answered except in specific circumstances and in specific negotiations. If you want an example of something that ISN'T a concession, it would be Israeli's idea of a complete dismantling of all nuclear assets in Iran and a refusal to participate in anything but a unilateral surrender of Iran on that issue.


I know what a concession is and my question was in reference to the only thing that will ever bring long lasting peace in the Middle East and that would be a settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I'm just trying to gauge how far you think Israel needs to go with these concessions?
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Kylistan
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Postby Kylistan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:21 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Divair wrote:Rabin :(

There's always Meretz


I'm sure the Arabs would love to see a Prime Minister from Meretz. They'd be able to walk all over Israel.
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Postby Gauthier » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:21 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Tekania wrote:
Concessions are things made when negotiating between two powers over something in order to reach a deal. As such that question cannot be answered except in specific circumstances and in specific negotiations. If you want an example of something that ISN'T a concession, it would be Israeli's idea of a complete dismantling of all nuclear assets in Iran and a refusal to participate in anything but a unilateral surrender of Iran on that issue.


I know what a concession is and my question was in reference to the only thing that will ever bring long lasting peace in the Middle East and that would be a settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I'm just trying to gauge how far you think Israel needs to go with these concessions?


If it gets the Prime Minister shot by his own people, then obviously the concession was reasonable enough.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:23 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Geilinor wrote:There's always Meretz


I'm sure the Arabs would love to see a Prime Minister from Meretz. They'd be able to walk all over Israel.

So the only reasonable solution is what? Nuke Palestine and Iran? :palm:
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Kylistan
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Postby Kylistan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
I know what a concession is and my question was in reference to the only thing that will ever bring long lasting peace in the Middle East and that would be a settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I'm just trying to gauge how far you think Israel needs to go with these concessions?


If it gets the Prime Minister shot by his own people, then obviously the concession was reasonable enough.


Your playing off all of Israel as extremist Zionists which isn't the case. American liberals like to call out conservatives for their so called belief that all Muslims are terrorists, yet your making a broad generalization about the Israeli people yourself.
Last edited by Kylistan on Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kylistan
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Postby Kylistan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:26 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
I'm sure the Arabs would love to see a Prime Minister from Meretz. They'd be able to walk all over Israel.

So the only reasonable solution is what? Nuke Palestine and Iran? :palm:


I don't think that nukes are ever the right solution, but if you seriously believe in Meretz as the best option for Israel, there is a problem.
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Sedikal
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Postby Sedikal » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:29 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Geilinor wrote:There's always Meretz


I'm sure the Arabs would love to see a Prime Minister from Meretz. They'd be able to walk all over Israel.

They want a peaceful solution to the Palestinian conflict, I don't see how that jetting the Arabs walk all over Israel.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:30 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Divair wrote:Rabin :(

There's always Meretz

As much as I love them, they'll never be large enough to have a significant impact. It'll probably be a leader from Labour that ends the conflict.

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:30 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Geilinor wrote:So the only reasonable solution is what? Nuke Palestine and Iran? :palm:


I don't think that nukes are ever the right solution, but if you seriously believe in Meretz as the best option for Israel, there is a problem.

Do you believe Likud is the best option? I'd go with Labour or Meretz.
Last edited by Geilinor on Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kylistan
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Postby Kylistan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:35 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
I don't think that nukes are ever the right solution, but if you seriously believe in Meretz as the best option for Israel, there is a problem.

Do you believe Likud is the best option? I'd go with Labour or Meretz.


My personal favorite is Yesh Atid because unlike Likud they believe in the two state solution, and they are closer to the center than the other two left wing parties.
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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:35 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Tekania wrote:
Concessions are things made when negotiating between two powers over something in order to reach a deal. As such that question cannot be answered except in specific circumstances and in specific negotiations. If you want an example of something that ISN'T a concession, it would be Israeli's idea of a complete dismantling of all nuclear assets in Iran and a refusal to participate in anything but a unilateral surrender of Iran on that issue.


I know what a concession is and my question was in reference to the only thing that will ever bring long lasting peace in the Middle East and that would be a settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I'm just trying to gauge how far you think Israel needs to go with these concessions?


Once again, that depends on the particular content of the negotiation and what is being sought by either side. I'd not expect a unilateral surrender by Israel anymore than opposing parties to be expected to unilaterally surrender on the issue.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:39 pm

Kylistan wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Do you believe Likud is the best option? I'd go with Labour or Meretz.


My personal favorite is Yesh Atid because unlike Likud they believe in the two state solution, and they are closer to the center than the other two left wing parties.

Yair Lapid also supports the maintenance of settlements and an expansion of conscription. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yair_Lapid
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:42 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Kylistan wrote:
My personal favorite is Yesh Atid because unlike Likud they believe in the two state solution, and they are closer to the center than the other two left wing parties.

Yair Lapid also supports the maintenance of settlements and an expansion of conscription. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yair_Lapid

And what a shit job he has done at being Minister of Finance.

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:37 pm

Geilinor wrote:Peaceful negotiation is always better than military action when possible.


The words. My mouth. You took them out.
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DogDoo 7
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Postby DogDoo 7 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:04 am

Kylistan wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
If it gets the Prime Minister shot by his own people, then obviously the concession was reasonable enough.


Your playing off all of Israel as extremist Zionists which isn't the case. American liberals like to call out conservatives for their so called belief that all Muslims are terrorists, yet your making a broad generalization about the Israeli people yourself.

It's not that we're all extremists, it's that we're quite comfortable with the status quo and are afraid of change.
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DogDoo 7
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Postby DogDoo 7 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:08 am

Divair wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Yair Lapid also supports the maintenance of settlements and an expansion of conscription. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yair_Lapid

And what a shit job he has done at being Minister of Finance.

Well, this was Bibi's strategery. He didn't scheme his way to the top without knowing how to dispose of rivals.

Anyway, Lapid recently said that a 'Jewish and democratic state' is an unsolvable problem for the Arabs. So let's just focus on neo-liberalism instead!
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New Chalcedon
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Postby New Chalcedon » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:33 am

Gauthier wrote:
Tekania wrote:
I feel sorry for Benjy..... it must seem very surreal to him that the US didn't just cave when he complained.


He probably thinks Obama is a closet Muslim too. After all he was campaigning for Mitt the Weathervane during 2012.


I remember. I also remember thinking that if any other national leader, even an allied one, had interfered so blatantly in US politics, the Marines would be camping out on their doorstep the next day.

But because it was Israel, it was apparently OK for Netanyahu to sabotage the US-Israeli relationship.
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DogDoo 7
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Postby DogDoo 7 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:55 am

New Chalcedon wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
He probably thinks Obama is a closet Muslim too. After all he was campaigning for Mitt the Weathervane during 2012.


I remember. I also remember thinking that if any other national leader, even an allied one, had interfered so blatantly in US politics, the Marines would be camping out on their doorstep the next day.

But because it was Israel, it was apparently OK for Netanyahu to sabotage the US-Israeli relationship.

It definitely has created a rift. There's enough AIPAC pressure on the democrats that it hasn't resulted in a complete breakdown, but that kerry interview was a game changer. Now as long as we keep the zionists (I'm looking at you, schumer) from the state department, then maybe something productive will happen.
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