Should Atheists celebrate Christian holidays?

[Katganistan]

On the other hand, Christmas is still a religious holiday, so if you can't deal with that or you feel the need to make it secular, you probably shouldn't even have anything to do with it.

NOPE! Anyone should celebrate it in whatever fashion they choose (or not celebrate if they choose). The religious fascists need to just deal with it.

[Vladovaskia]

3. As said before, America was created as a christian nation.

TREATY OF TRIPOLI
THE BLOODY FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION.

Thomas Jefferson was even Atheist at some points. He cut up the bible and put the "good" (morality and the such) parts into a journal, and left out the "bad" parts (supernatural things).

[Katganistan]

Not in practice.

First and foremost, oh yes it is indeed, good sir

In your opinion, but I have to tell you that all you need do is look around and you'll see that's not the case.

[Katganistan]

If we replace Christmas with a general "Holidays" it's a war on Christmas. If non-Christians celebrate Christmas, it's a commercialization of Christmas.

There's no fucking appeasing you Christians is there?

Heeeeey.

[Katganistan]

If we replace Christmas with a general "Holidays" it's a war on Christmas. If non-Christians celebrate Christmas, it's a commercialization of Christmas.

There's no fucking appeasing you Christians is there?

Well I for one would have loved atheists to STOP CELEBRATING IT. But you know, whatever. The obsession of many non religious people to hijack religious holidays never ceases to amaze me.

And the obsession of a few religious people to be as obnoxious as possible to others never ceases to amaze me.

They certainly aren't living in the way that Christ preached.

[Czechanada]

Well I for one would have loved atheists to STOP CELEBRATING IT. But you know, whatever. The obsession of many non religious people to hijack religious holidays never ceases to amaze me.

And the obsession of a few religious people to be as obnoxious as possible to others never ceases to amaze me.

They certainly aren't living in the way that Christ preached.

Yeshua technically was obnoxious to the merchants in the temple.

[Conscentia]

TREATY OF TRIPOLI
THE BLOODY FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION.

Thomas Jefferson was even Atheist at some points. He cut up the bible and put the "good" (morality and the such) parts into a journal, and left out the "bad" parts (supernatural things).

The Jefferson Bible.
"Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine."

"Despite the stated intent of the 1804 version being "for the Use of the Indians," there is no record of this or its successor being used for that purpose."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

[Neo Rome Republic]

If we replace Christmas with a general "Holidays" it's a war on Christmas. If non-Christians celebrate Christmas, it's a commercialization of Christmas.

There's no fucking appeasing you Christians is there?

Apparently not.

[Fartsniffage]

Oh yes, absolutely.

Americans are weird.

"The Yule log was originally an entire tree, that was carefully chosen and brought into the house with great ceremony with the purpose being to provide maximum warmth and endurance."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_log

Being warm is pagan now?

That's some mighty fine selective quoting you're doing there. Mighty fine.

[Immoren]

If we replace Christmas with a general "Holidays" it's a war on Christmas. If non-Christians celebrate Christmas, it's a commercialization of Christmas.

There's no fucking appeasing you Christians is there?

Apparently not.

I am glad that my ancestors never replaced name of event, "Joulu" ( ie. Yule) with "Kristusmessu" (ie. Christmas).

[Zottistan]

There is no should or shouldn't. They should be free to choose without obligation.

[The USOT]

And the obsession of a few religious people to be as obnoxious as possible to others never ceases to amaze me.

They certainly aren't living in the way that Christ preached.

Yeshua technically was obnoxious to the merchants in the temple.

"I dont like you so I WILL DRIVE YOU OUT AND WHIP YOU/YOUR ANIMALS (for some reason)"

The definition of not being obnoxious and perfect tolerance

[Neo Rome Republic]

Apparently not.

I am glad that my ancestors never replaced name of event, "Joulu" ( ie. Yule) with "Kristusmessu" (ie. Christmas).

That's cool. My main family Holiday is New-Years, not Christmas.

[Conscentia]

Americans are weird.
"The Yule log was originally an entire tree, that was carefully chosen and brought into the house with great ceremony with the purpose being to provide maximum warmth and endurance."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_log
Being warm is pagan now?

That's some mighty fine selective quoting you're doing there. Mighty fine.

There's nothing in there that says that the yule log is necessarily a pagan practice.
The summary of the relevant information would be that many think it's pagan in origin, but that's just an assumption, the real origin is unknown, and some historians think it may have merely been practical.

I presented the relevant counter-argument to his assertion.

[Fartsniffage]

Yeshua technically was obnoxious to the merchants in the temple.

"I dont like you so I WILL DRIVE YOU OUT AND WHIP YOU/YOUR ANIMALS (for some reason)"

The definition of not being obnoxious and perfect tolerance

Yeah. That never did seem to fit with the image of Christ portrayed in the rest of the NT.

I always kind thought of it as an artefact. Something that should have been removed in the editing process but somehow missed.

[Fartsniffage]

That's some mighty fine selective quoting you're doing there. Mighty fine.

There's nothing in there that says that the yule log is necessarily a pagan practice.
The summary of the relevant information would be that many think it's pagan in origin, but that's just an assumption, the real origin is unknown, and some historians think it may have merely been practical.

I presented the relevant counter-argument to his assertion.

Oh good. Does that mean us atheists can still have Yule logs then?

[The Merchant Republics]

I'm not saying butt out, I'm just saying were I an atheist, I'd celebrate Christmas just for the fun of the season, but I'd probably ignore Easter except for the opportunity to have a long weekend.

that's what I do. I find the secular aspects of easter annoying so I don't mess with any of them. (we did do the candy thing when my son was little but there was no "going to the mall to get a photo with the easter bunny" abominations)

but easter being always on sunday there is no long weekend.

Hmmm.

Odd, maybe it's just in academia or perhaps just Canada, but Easter was always a long weekend for me, Friday and Monday. Although, I recall that on Friday my mother worked (private sector) but my father didn't (public).

Still, it's a rather vivid memory...

[Dyakovo]

"I dont like you so I WILL DRIVE YOU OUT AND WHIP YOU/YOUR ANIMALS (for some reason)"

The definition of not being obnoxious and perfect tolerance

Yeah. That never did seem to fit with the image of Christ portrayed in the rest of the NT.

I always kind thought of it as an artefact. Something that should have been removed in the editing process but somehow missed.

Obviously if the deity of the OT and the NT are the same deity, it suffers from DID.
*nods*

[Councordia]

That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins—all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair can the soul’s habitation be safely built.

Bertrand Russell (from A Free Man's Worship, 1903)

I think our dear secularist friends should stop shitting themselves and celebrate a real materialistic holiday that has the central message of, well, meaninglessness. We can even suspend things like the drinking age to make it happen. You are a cosmic accident. You should celebrate and remember that fact, and build up your foundations of unyielding despair. Ground yourself once more in the groundlessness of your existence, folks. Stop pretending like Santa and the Easter Bunny mean anything.

[The USOT]

"I dont like you so I WILL DRIVE YOU OUT AND WHIP YOU/YOUR ANIMALS (for some reason)"

The definition of not being obnoxious and perfect tolerance

Yeah. That never did seem to fit with the image of Christ portrayed in the rest of the NT.

I always kind thought of it as an artefact. Something that should have been removed in the editing process but somehow missed.

Whilst not a fan of him, there are odd inconsistencies with his character at random moments which (if we are to presume he was a real person) do as you say dont fit with any consistency.

I mean the hatred of fig trees is just weird...
"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

Mark 11:12-14"

"Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!


Matthew 21: 18-20"

[Dyakovo]

Yeah. That never did seem to fit with the image of Christ portrayed in the rest of the NT.

I always kind thought of it as an artefact. Something that should have been removed in the editing process but somehow missed.

Whilst not a fan of him, there are odd inconsistencies with his character at random moments which (if we are to presume he was a real person) do as you say dont fit with any consistency.

I mean the hatred of fig trees is just weird...
"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

Mark 11:12-14"

"Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!


Matthew 21: 18-20"

DID and IED.
*nods*

[The USOT]

That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins—all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair can the soul’s habitation be safely built.

Bertrand Russell (from A Free Man's Worship, 1903)

I think our dear secularist friends should stop shitting themselves and celebrate a real materialistic holiday that has the central message of, well, meaninglessness. We can even suspend things like the drinking age to make it happen. You are a cosmic accident. You should celebrate and remember that fact, and build up your foundations of unyielding despair. Ground yourself once more in the groundlessness of your existence, folks. Stop pretending like Santa and the Easter Bunny mean anything.

Why does materialism mean that something cant mean anything?

I love Santa Claus as a celebration of international human culture. He has had many mythological inspirations and modern adaptations to fit in with various cultural traditions, all of which celebrate family and togetherness and giving. Being a cosmic accident does not mean we can asscribe meaning to things, or that our meaning is "pointless".

[The Merchant Republics]

Yeshua technically was obnoxious to the merchants in the temple.

"I dont like you so I WILL DRIVE YOU OUT AND WHIP YOU/YOUR ANIMALS (for some reason)"

The definition of not being obnoxious and perfect tolerance

Well.

To give some apology for the actions, it was in His view, just driving out unwanted guests in his Father's home.

He didn't necessarily dislike them or their practices so much as he disliked where they choose to practice them, in the Temple, doing things forbidden to do in the temple.

I suddenly see why Republicans may like that passage, update it in your mind and give Christ a shotgun, you've got yourself castle doctrine.

/kidding.

[Fartsniffage]

Whilst not a fan of him, there are odd inconsistencies with his character at random moments which (if we are to presume he was a real person) do as you say dont fit with any consistency.

I mean the hatred of fig trees is just weird...
"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

Mark 11:12-14"

"Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!


Matthew 21: 18-20"

DID and IED.
*nods*

It does say he was hungry. Everyone get cranky when they're hungry.

[Councordia]

That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins—all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair can the soul’s habitation be safely built.

Bertrand Russell (from A Free Man's Worship, 1903)

I think our dear secularist friends should stop shitting themselves and celebrate a real materialistic holiday that has the central message of, well, meaninglessness. We can even suspend things like the drinking age to make it happen. You are a cosmic accident. You should celebrate and remember that fact, and build up your foundations of unyielding despair. Ground yourself once more in the groundlessness of your existence, folks. Stop pretending like Santa and the Easter Bunny mean anything.

Why does materialism mean that something cant mean anything?

I love Santa Claus as a celebration of international human culture. He has had many mythological inspirations and modern adaptations to fit in with various cultural traditions, all of which celebrate family and togetherness and giving. Being a cosmic accident does not mean we can asscribe meaning to things, or that our meaning is "pointless".

Being a cosmic accident by definition means that your existence is pointless. Ultimately.