School orders families to sign "biblical morality pledge".

[Saint Kitten]

Don't derail this. We are talking about the govt sending over $ to a school that makes the kids sign a pledge saying they aren't gay, and if they are they will be kicked out. That is government entanglement. Financially supporting a school that has a very strict anti-homosexuality policy.

For the 10000th time. The funds are used for things like math english and physical education. The money's primary effect neither advances nor restricts religious practice.

No there is no government entanglement in this situation.

I don't care if the funding is for trash bags!
It is financial aid to a school that entangles the government with their beliefs that Homosexuality is more or less a sin!

[Saint Kitten]

Are you familiar with the terms "indoctrination" and "brainwashing"?

Yes. I don't see the children being brainwashed or indoctrinated here. Keep your secular morality to yourself.

As should you

[Vazdania]

Or too ignorant

Well...I wouldn't go so far to call Vazdania that he seems to be merely dodging the bullet of it being brought up.

What point is being brought up. All they keep saying is the money is being used to fund a school that is anti homosexual when in fact that is not the case. The money is being used to fund secular subjects which is entirely okay and does not violate the lemon test.

[Benuty]

Are you familiar with the terms "indoctrination" and "brainwashing"?

Yes. I don't see the children being brainwashed or indoctrinated here. Keep your secular morality to yourself.

Secular morality has nothing to do with this issue....I do not even think it factors into it. Governmental fund and bias in practice however are factors.

[Saint Kitten]

Well...I wouldn't go so far to call Vazdania that he seems to be merely dodging the bullet of it being brought up.

What point is being brought up. All they keep saying is the money is being used to fund a school that is anti homosexual when in fact that is not the case. The money is being used to fund secular subjects which is entirely okay and does not violate the lemon test.

Here we go again..

[Arkandros]

Don't derail this. We are talking about the govt sending over $ to a school that makes the kids sign a pledge saying they aren't gay, and if they are they will be kicked out. That is government entanglement. Financially supporting a school that has a very strict anti-homosexuality policy.

For the 10000th time. The funds are used for things like math english and physical education. The money's primary effect neither advances nor restricts religious practice.

No there is no government entanglement in this situation.

My main problem is that the government is funding a group who is advocating a certain religious philosophy. I don't care what the funds are used for- even if used for secular education, they are giving money to a for-profit religious group. That's like requiring Catholics to give money to Mosques, so that the mosques can run tv ads.

[Vazdania]

For the 10000th time. The funds are used for things like math english and physical education. The money's primary effect neither advances nor restricts religious practice.

No there is no government entanglement in this situation.

I don't care if the funding is for trash bags!
It is financial aid to a school that entangles the government with their beliefs that Homosexuality is more or less a sin!

Government entanglement is governmental participation in religious organizations or participation of religious
organizations in governmental activities.

Everson v. Board of Education shows us that so long as the money's PRIMARY goal is secular, then there is NO PROBLEM WHAT SO EVER.

[Vazdania]

Yes. I don't see the children being brainwashed or indoctrinated here. Keep your secular morality to yourself.

Secular morality has nothing to do with this issue....I do not even think it factors into it. Governmental fund and bias in practice however are factors.

What bias is there? The government is using its funding to promote math english physical education and other classes that are secular. This doesn't violate the lemon test.

[Lemanrussland]

Are you familiar with the terms "indoctrination" and "brainwashing"?

Yes. I don't see the children being brainwashed or indoctrinated here. Keep your secular morality to yourself.

HAHAHA, the most ironic thing I've ever seen posted on this site.

The anti-secular theocrat telling people to keep their "morality to themselves", what a knee slapper.

[Saint Kitten]

I don't care if the funding is for trash bags!
It is financial aid to a school that entangles the government with their beliefs that Homosexuality is more or less a sin!

Government entanglement is governmental participation in religious organizations or participation of religious
organizations in governmental activities.

Everson v. Board of Education shows us that so long as the money's PRIMARY goal is secular, then there is NO PROBLEM WHAT SO EVER.

Lose the caps thank you

That was an extremely dulled situation. Of which I still support but that actually has no entanglement. (Well...)

In our case. Yes, because what the school doesn't pay for the classes, apparently spends in making pledges that are extremely radical.

And with that, I am done. Any possible argument that you could possibly make has already been made and this reminds me too much of a cat and mouse game. I'm off to do something more interesting. Like watching paint dry. Farewell.

[Vazdania]

Yes. I don't see the children being brainwashed or indoctrinated here. Keep your secular morality to yourself.

HAHAHA, the most ironic thing I've ever seen posted on this site.

The anti-secular theocrat telling people to keep their "morality to themselves", what a knee slapper.

I'm not a theocrat.

Anti Secular for sure though

[Leanore]

About "brainwashing" and "indoctrination",

Parents of these children decide to take them and pay the large amount of money to send them a private Christian school. Most kids that go to school their most likely go to church their as well.

I remember when I was in private school, they kept giving us guilt trips if we weren't saved. Everyone in the school was saved, trust me. EVERYONE. I don't know why they would keep telling it to us, but it's like they didn't know. We went to a private Christian school. Is it not obvious? Just thought I would say this..

[Vazdania]

Government entanglement is governmental participation in religious organizations or participation of religious
organizations in governmental activities.

Everson v. Board of Education shows us that so long as the money's PRIMARY goal is secular, then there is NO PROBLEM WHAT SO EVER.

Lose the caps thank you

That was an extremely dulled situation. Of which I still support but that actually has no entanglement. (Well...)

In our case. Yes, because what the school doesn't pay for the classes, apparently spends in making pledges that are extremely radical.

And with that, I am done. Any possible argument that you could possibly make has already been made and this reminds me too much of a cat and mouse game. I'm off to do something more interesting. Like watching paint dry. Farewell.

Providing supplementary funding to a school for secular classes doesn't foster excessive government entanglement.

[Greed and Death]

For the 10000th time. The funds are used for things like math english and physical education. The money's primary effect neither advances nor restricts religious practice.

No there is no government entanglement in this situation.

I don't care if the funding is for trash bags!
It is financial aid to a school that entangles the government with their beliefs that Homosexuality is more or less a sin!

But if they segregate the funding that is simply a matter a choice for the families involved.

After all if we let planned parenthood do it with abortion money and women's health money.

[Lemanrussland]

About "brainwashing" and "indoctrination",

Parents of these children decide to take them and pay the large amount of money to send them a private Christian school. Most kids that go to school their most likely go to church their as well.

I remember when I was in private school, they kept giving us guilt trips if we weren't saved. Everyone in the school was saved, trust me. EVERYONE. I don't know why they would keep telling it to us, but it's like they didn't know. We went to a private Christian school. Is it not obvious? Just thought I would say this..

Similar situation with me. I actually went to a private Christian school for a few years, and they had seminars featuring Creationist "scientists" telling us how to "refute evolutionist propaganda". Halloween costumes or celebration was forbidden because it "violated Christian morals by celebrating evil".

Now, most of the kids there were quite normal, and the atmosphere as a whole wasn't that bad, but every once in a while they would drag you into these kinds of seminars and bombard you with what basically amounted to religious propaganda.

[Leanore]

About "brainwashing" and "indoctrination",

Parents of these children decide to take them and pay the large amount of money to send them a private Christian school. Most kids that go to school their most likely go to church their as well.

I remember when I was in private school, they kept giving us guilt trips if we weren't saved. Everyone in the school was saved, trust me. EVERYONE. I don't know why they would keep telling it to us, but it's like they didn't know. We went to a private Christian school. Is it not obvious? Just thought I would say this..

Similar situation with me. I actually went to a private Christian school for a few years, and they had seminars featuring Creationist "scientists" telling us how to "refute evolutionist propaganda". Halloween costumes or celebration was forbidden because it "violated Christian morals by celebrating evil".

Now, most of the kids there were quite normal, and the atmosphere as a whole wasn't that bad, but every once in a while they would drag you into these kinds of seminars and bombard you with what basically amounted to religious propaganda.

Yes, I'm totally with you. The first year I went their they banned Facebook, literally. If you were caught on it, they would suspend you from the school, even though you didn't use Facebook at the school. The best part is they made you add the Preacher and all of the teachers to your friends list so they could constantly monitor you, even if you weren't at school.

And of course, some teenagers got in trouble for saying something like "School was hard today, Principle needs to lighten up." Long story short, they were suspended for an entire week, and had to stand up in front of the entire school. They basically embarassed them for doing that.

[Lemanrussland]

About "brainwashing" and "indoctrination",

Parents of these children decide to take them and pay the large amount of money to send them a private Christian school. Most kids that go to school their most likely go to church their as well.

I remember when I was in private school, they kept giving us guilt trips if we weren't saved. Everyone in the school was saved, trust me. EVERYONE. I don't know why they would keep telling it to us, but it's like they didn't know. We went to a private Christian school. Is it not obvious? Just thought I would say this..

Similar situation with me. I actually went to a private Christian school for a few years, and they had seminars featuring Creationist "scientists" telling us how to "refute evolutionist propaganda". Halloween costumes or celebration was forbidden because it "violated Christian morals by celebrating evil".

Now, most of the kids there were quite normal, and the atmosphere as a whole wasn't that bad, but every once in a while they would drag you into these kinds of seminars and bombard you with what basically amounted to religious propaganda.

The science lectures were also a joke. The science teacher literally (this is with no exaggeration) explained the Big Bang theory as follows:

"Basically, some people thing there was a big explosion and a giraffe and elephant came out of it, stupid isn't it?"

The entire chapter in the elementary biology class was also rife with stuff like that, the teacher arguing with and trying to discredit the materials in the book, not explaining things accurately (deliberately or not, I can't tell) and so on. Hearing these kinds of things in the school was a major factor in driving me away from the Christian community.

[Greed and Death]

About "brainwashing" and "indoctrination",

Parents of these children decide to take them and pay the large amount of money to send them a private Christian school. Most kids that go to school their most likely go to church their as well.

I remember when I was in private school, they kept giving us guilt trips if we weren't saved. Everyone in the school was saved, trust me. EVERYONE. I don't know why they would keep telling it to us, but it's like they didn't know. We went to a private Christian school. Is it not obvious? Just thought I would say this..

Similar situation with me. I actually went to a private Christian school for a few years, and they had seminars featuring Creationist "scientists" telling us how to "refute evolutionist propaganda". Halloween costumes or celebration was forbidden because it "violated Christian morals by celebrating evil".

Now, most of the kids there were quite normal, and the atmosphere as a whole wasn't that bad, but every once in a while they would drag you into these kinds of seminars and bombard you with what basically amounted to religious propaganda.

And Jesus help you if caught with magic the gathering cards or D&D dice.

[Leanore]

Similar situation with me. I actually went to a private Christian school for a few years, and they had seminars featuring Creationist "scientists" telling us how to "refute evolutionist propaganda". Halloween costumes or celebration was forbidden because it "violated Christian morals by celebrating evil".

Now, most of the kids there were quite normal, and the atmosphere as a whole wasn't that bad, but every once in a while they would drag you into these kinds of seminars and bombard you with what basically amounted to religious propaganda.

The science lectures were also a joke. The science teacher literally (this is with no exaggeration) explained the Big Bang theory as follows:

"Basically, some people thing there was a big explosion and a giraffe and elephant came out of it, stupid isn't it?"

The entire chapter in the elementary biology class was also rife with stuff like that, the teacher arguing with and trying to discredit the materials in the book, not explaining things accurately (deliberately or not, I can't tell) and so on. Hearing these kinds of things in the school was a major factor in driving me away from the Christian community.

And when some other student tried to give their opinion, the teacher would say, "Mhmm... well, the Bible says.."

[Vazdania]

The science lectures were also a joke. The science teacher literally (this is with no exaggeration) explained the Big Bang theory as follows:

"Basically, some people thing there was a big explosion and a giraffe and elephant came out of it, stupid isn't it?"

The entire chapter in the elementary biology class was also rife with stuff like that, the teacher arguing with and trying to discredit the materials in the book, not explaining things accurately (deliberately or not, I can't tell) and so on. Hearing these kinds of things in the school was a major factor in driving me away from the Christian community.

And when some other student tried to give their opinion, the teacher would say, "Mhmm... well, the Bible says.."

I'm not sure this is on topic.

[Lemanrussland]

The science lectures were also a joke. The science teacher literally (this is with no exaggeration) explained the Big Bang theory as follows:

"Basically, some people thing there was a big explosion and a giraffe and elephant came out of it, stupid isn't it?"

The entire chapter in the elementary biology class was also rife with stuff like that, the teacher arguing with and trying to discredit the materials in the book, not explaining things accurately (deliberately or not, I can't tell) and so on. Hearing these kinds of things in the school was a major factor in driving me away from the Christian community.

And when some other student tried to give their opinion, the teacher would say, "Mhmm... well, the Bible says.."

Never really had that happen. The same science teacher basically said the Universe was ~6,000 years old in class once, I raised my hand and asked him about the Hubble Deep Field photographs, how those could have possibly been taken given our knowledge about things like the speed of light and so on if the Universe was only 6,000 years old.

He got a bit annoyed at me and basically said that the Universe was created in a static manner -- that God created those light rays to appear as if they originated in an earlier time to "test our faith". He never tried to argue with or punish students for saying stuff like that, though.

Also, kind of driving off topic here, even though it is a related topic. So let's stop complaining about how terrible the private Christian "education" experience was and get back to discussing the legal and ethical issues with the government funding this school/the school distributing these anti-LGBT notes.

[Leanore]

And when some other student tried to give their opinion, the teacher would say, "Mhmm... well, the Bible says.."

I'm not sure this is on topic.

Most likely not. Sorry to stray away, just had to say it.

[Felbah]

Absolutely insane. I cannot believe any school would do this.
I am a Christian, and still this goes against all that I believe.

[The Republic of Llamas]

The school is full of idiots. I'm pretty sure this is illegal, or at leas should be, as it's overt discrimination against a disadvantaged minority group. If they persist in acting hatefully and illogically, then let me remind you that students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.

[Vazdania]

The school is full of idiots. I'm pretty sure this is illegal, or at leas should be, as it's overt discrimination against a disadvantaged minority group. If they persist in acting hatefully and illogically, then let me remind you that students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.

This isn't illegal. Its a private religious school, their constitutional rights don't apply on private property.