Ukrainian Crisis

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Hmm... Well I'll admit, that was an idiotic move by the EU, I guess it just wanted to gain more members...

Too much optimism, not enough realism.

To be fair, it was 2004, when America was enriching the Global economy by continuing on with Iraq and Afghanistan.

[European Socialist Republic]

Didn't the EU already warn the Greek Government before hand, but they did not comply? Yes, I agree that the EU could have gotten a better outcome if it had intervened, but it didn't. Why? Because it wasn't their job... I mean if I were the leader of the EU at the time, I could not have foreseen the Greek default, the fact of the matter is that the Greeks caused their own downfall and to make it worse, the largest economy in the World had just gotten its housing bubble popped, the Global economy was in decline... I'm sure these other factors would have been more important to the EU than Greek's own idiotic domestic policies...

I'm talking about Greece being allowed to accede to the Euro in 2004, despite Eurostat showing that Greece had problems as early as 2002.

This might be something.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-2 ... -says.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16834815

EDIT: also, this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Good on the Ukraine.

Rejecting Globalization. and Liberalism.

Now please explain why liberalism is bad.

It produces a society of sheep.

[Ayreonia]

Now please explain why liberalism is bad.

It produces a society of sheep.

BBBAAAAAAAAAAA

[Dumb Ideologies]

Now please explain why liberalism is bad.

It produces a society of sheep.

Noble, graceful, fluffy creatures.

[European Socialist Republic]

Now please explain why liberalism is bad.

It produces a society of sheep.

Who give you milk to drink and wool to make clothes of.
Why do you hate milk and clothes?

[Dumb Ideologies]

It produces a society of sheep.

Who give you milk to drink and wool to make clothes of.
Why do you hate milk and clothes?

Omigod. You can't just ask someone why they hate milk and clothes!

He's probably a lactose-intolerant nudist.

[4years]

Decided to give this a bump, given the latest Neo-Nazi provocations such as burning cars, buses and injuring hundreds of police officers.

My rant on the subject:

President Yanukovych of the Ukraine signed into law a bill to curb anti-government protests, a bill that did not even go through the usual process of voting but was 'passed', over the heads of opposition deputies who blocked the speaker's platform and attempted to disrupt the illegal voting, via a show of hands in a rump legislature composed of MPs loyal to the president.

A ban has been imposed on unauthorized tents, stages, or amplifiers in public areas- clearly an attempt to strike at the protests that have been camped out behind extensive barricades for the past two months. Further, vehicle protests involving more than five cars are prohibited, clearly a response to protests outside government buildings (including President Yanukovych's residence) that have occurred in recent days. Free speech has also been restricted so that 'slandering' government officials now carries a potential sentence of a year's worth of 'corrective labour'- a sentence reminiscent of Stalinist era crimes.

These anti-democratic and completely unacceptable acts have caused something of a split among various representatives of the bourgeois with Arseniy Yatsenyuk of the Batkivshchyna commenting that Ukraine is potentially facing another surge in the protests. This expresses the fears of the Ukrainian opposition, and of the European and American leaders critical of the laws, who understand that such undemocratic measures will be found intolerable be the Ukrainian proletariat. On the other hand members of the ruling party, which resorted to irregular methods after realizing that it lacked the strength to pass the bills legally, see the chance to shut the opposition out of power and rule by the iron fist. Supporters of this method, such as Party of the Regions MP Oleh Tsariov, believe that the firm hand is necessary to browbeat the proletariat into submission and crush the movement of the working class. On notable method of the split is the dismissal of Sergiy Lyovochkin, President Yanukovych's long time chief of staff, who was rumoured to be contemplating resigning after police thugs broke up a pro-EU rally in November (a move which brought tens of thousands of additional protestors onto the streets). The US state department and leading figures in the European Union have also been drawn to criticize President Yanukovych's bid for control and express token support for the protests by their desire to lure the Ukraine away from Moscow and gain it for the western powers. Notable manifestations of this include Secretary of State John Kerry's insistence that "the people of Ukraine want to affiliate and want to be associated with Europe and they want to turn in that direction," (quoted from the BBC article) and EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele's concerns that the movie compromises Ukraine's "European aspirations." The economic motivators behind these statements of bourgeois figures who don't care one whit for democracy when it is against their interests in painfully obvious as is the desire for personal political power that motivated Udar Party's Vitali Klitschko to condemn the move. Perhaps Mr. Kerry would like to comment on the anti-democratic implications of the (US backed) military coup in Honduras, the dictatorial nature of the theocratic regime in Saudi Arabia, or China's awful human rights record? No, Ukraine democracy only matters to the western bourgeois insofar as it is in their economic interests, just as Iranian democracy became something that had to be upheld and defended against the Islamic theocrats the instant the US backed dictator was overthrown.

The proletariat, on the other hand, is the only class that has a consistent, genuine interest in and commitment to the acquisition and protection of democratic rights. The socialist and communist movement has recognized on a fundamental level this ever since Marx launched his criticism of Hegel and Blanqui on basis of democratic principles, writing that "All forms of the state have democracy for their truth, and for that reason are false to the extent that they are not democracy" (from Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right). Democracy is a key component of socialist and communist theory; communism is impossible without strictest democracy and socialist is an absurdity without it. No socialist or communist can help but oppose these draconian laws and support the Ukrainian proletariat in its struggle.

The protests began as a reaction to President Yanukovych's refusal to sing the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, under Russian pressure, but have become a mass movement against widespread corruption and the rampant abuses of power in Ukraine's government. The proletariat has not come out for 2 months in the freezing cold because it prefers the European Union to Russia's customs union or feels that a loan from Brussels is any better than one from Moscow, but because it knows that something is fundamentally wrong with the system. The failure of the former 'Communist' Party of the Ukraine to recognize this and its judgment of the entire protest movement by the pro-EU sentiment and a handful of isolated incidents, such as the destruction of rather nice statue of Lenin (which may be a positive sign in the context of Stalinist rule, as Stalinism necessarily defiles the memory of Lenin by claiming his legacy, and a return to the days of Makhno, with the anarcho-communism entailed by that), demonstrate its utter failure to apply the methods of historical materialism to the situation at hand. The undialectical methods of the so-called 'Communist' Party, which has already betrayed the proletariat many times over, has led it to commit rank treason against socialism by supporting President Yanukovych in his anti-democratic bid for power. May all genuine Marxists and communists impose a damnatio memoriae on this traitorous party! More to the point, may the proletarian comrades of the Ukraine impose a damnatio memoriae on President Yanukovych, his undemocratic laws, and on capitalism as a whole!

Only socialism both in the Ukraine and elsewhere can solve the fundamental problems of capitalism which led to these massive protests. A socialist revolution in the Ukraine would immediate spread to both the European Union and Russia, repudiate the debts of the capitalists, and provide gainful employment for all. A socialist EU or a socialist Russia would not attach austerity conditions to a loan- quite the opposite- they would instead insist that the money be spent for the benefit of the Ukrainian working class. Further, a socialist Russia would not use the gas, so vital to citizens of the Ukraine during wintertime, as a economic weapon to violate the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people nor would it demand such inflated and highly exploitative prices for its use, rather it would provide the the gas to the people of the Ukraine in accordance with a harmonious plan of socialist production and make every effort to respect the self-determination of said people. Likewise, a socialist Ukraine would not seek to undermine the democratic will of its people, but would act in accordance with their desires and would not bother with petty nationalism, but would actively seek to live in peace and harmony with all of the world's peoples. For a United Socialist European Republic, both east and west!

[Ragnarum]

Now please explain why liberalism is bad.

It produces a society of sheep.

Not at all.

I follow a system of socially liberal militarism.
Not like "US foreign policy" militarism either, its actual full blown militarism. It would be quite close to a Stratocracy if it ever happened.

Yet because people get more civil rights, that directly means they will be "sheep?".

Nope.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Decided to give this a bump, given the latest Neo-Nazi provocations such as burning cars, buses and injuring hundreds of police officers.

My rant on the subject:

President Yanukovych of the Ukraine signed into law a bill to curb anti-government protests, a bill that did not even go through the usual process of voting but was 'passed', over the heads of opposition deputies who blocked the speaker's platform and attempted to disrupt the illegal voting, via a show of hands in a rump legislature composed of MPs loyal to the president.

A ban has been imposed on unauthorized tents, stages, or amplifiers in public areas- clearly an attempt to strike at the protests that have been camped out behind extensive barricades for the past two months. Further, vehicle protests involving more than five cars are prohibited, clearly a response to protests outside government buildings (including President Yanukovych's residence) that have occurred in recent days. Free speech has also been restricted so that 'slandering' government officials now carries a potential sentence of a year's worth of 'corrective labour'- a sentence reminiscent of Stalinist era crimes.

These anti-democratic and completely unacceptable acts have caused something of a split among various representatives of the bourgeois with Arseniy Yatsenyuk of the Batkivshchyna commenting that Ukraine is potentially facing another surge in the protests. This expresses the fears of the Ukrainian opposition, and of the European and American leaders critical of the laws, who understand that such undemocratic measures will be found intolerable be the Ukrainian proletariat. On the other hand members of the ruling party, which resorted to irregular methods after realizing that it lacked the strength to pass the bills legally, see the chance to shut the opposition out of power and rule by the iron fist. Supporters of this method, such as Party of the Regions MP Oleh Tsariov, believe that the firm hand is necessary to browbeat the proletariat into submission and crush the movement of the working class. On notable method of the split is the dismissal of Sergiy Lyovochkin, President Yanukovych's long time chief of staff, who was rumoured to be contemplating resigning after police thugs broke up a pro-EU rally in November (a move which brought tens of thousands of additional protestors onto the streets). The US state department and leading figures in the European Union have also been drawn to criticize President Yanukovych's bid for control and express token support for the protests by their desire to lure the Ukraine away from Moscow and gain it for the western powers. Notable manifestations of this include Secretary of State John Kerry's insistence that "the people of Ukraine want to affiliate and want to be associated with Europe and they want to turn in that direction," (quoted from the BBC article) and EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele's concerns that the movie compromises Ukraine's "European aspirations." The economic motivators behind these statements of bourgeois figures who don't care one whit for democracy when it is against their interests in painfully obvious as is the desire for personal political power that motivated Udar Party's Vitali Klitschko to condemn the move. Perhaps Mr. Kerry would like to comment on the anti-democratic implications of the (US backed) military coup in Honduras, the dictatorial nature of the theocratic regime in Saudi Arabia, or China's awful human rights record? No, Ukraine democracy only matters to the western bourgeois insofar as it is in their economic interests, just as Iranian democracy became something that had to be upheld and defended against the Islamic theocrats the instant the US backed dictator was overthrown.

The proletariat, on the other hand, is the only class that has a consistent, genuine interest in and commitment to the acquisition and protection of democratic rights. The socialist and communist movement has recognized on a fundamental level this ever since Marx launched his criticism of Hegel and Blanqui on basis of democratic principles, writing that "All forms of the state have democracy for their truth, and for that reason are false to the extent that they are not democracy" (from Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right). Democracy is a key component of socialist and communist theory; communism is impossible without strictest democracy and socialist is an absurdity without it. No socialist or communist can help but oppose these draconian laws and support the Ukrainian proletariat in its struggle.

The protests began as a reaction to President Yanukovych's refusal to sing the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, under Russian pressure, but have become a mass movement against widespread corruption and the rampant abuses of power in Ukraine's government. The proletariat has not come out for 2 months in the freezing cold because it prefers the European Union to Russia's customs union or feels that a loan from Brussels is any better than one from Moscow, but because it knows that something is fundamentally wrong with the system. The failure of the former 'Communist' Party of the Ukraine to recognize this and its judgment of the entire protest movement by the pro-EU sentiment and a handful of isolated incidents, such as the destruction of rather nice statue of Lenin (which may be a positive sign in the context of Stalinist rule, as Stalinism necessarily defiles the memory of Lenin by claiming his legacy, and a return to the days of Makhno, with the anarcho-communism entailed by that), demonstrate its utter failure to apply the methods of historical materialism to the situation at hand. The undialectical methods of the so-called 'Communist' Party, which has already betrayed the proletariat many times over, has led it to commit rank treason against socialism by supporting President Yanukovych in his anti-democratic bid for power. May all genuine Marxists and communists impose a damnatio memoriae on this traitorous party! More to the point, may the proletarian comrades of the Ukraine impose a damnatio memoriae on President Yanukovych, his undemocratic laws, and on capitalism as a whole!

Only socialism both in the Ukraine and elsewhere can solve the fundamental problems of capitalism which led to these massive protests. A socialist revolution in the Ukraine would immediate spread to both the European Union and Russia, repudiate the debts of the capitalists, and provide gainful employment for all. A socialist EU or a socialist Russia would not attach austerity conditions to a loan- quite the opposite- they would instead insist that the money be spent for the benefit of the Ukrainian working class. Further, a socialist Russia would not use the gas, so vital to citizens of the Ukraine during wintertime, as a economic weapon to violate the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people nor would it demand such inflated and highly exploitative prices for its use, rather it would provide the the gas to the people of the Ukraine in accordance with a harmonious plan of socialist production and make every effort to respect the self-determination of said people. Likewise, a socialist Ukraine would not seek to undermine the democratic will of its people, but would act in accordance with their desires and would not bother with petty nationalism, but would actively seek to live in peace and harmony with all of the world's peoples. For a United Socialist European Republic, both east and west!

Wat.

Have you not been taking your medication again?

[Marcurix]

Decided to give this a bump, given the latest Neo-Nazi provocations such as burning cars, buses and injuring hundreds of police officers.

Ignoring that those aren't strictly neo-nazi "provocations", do I detect a hint of blatant bias in your post?

Now please explain why liberalism is bad.

It produces a society of sheep.

When lacking any sound reason always fall back on throwing insults and/or baseless claims.

[4years]

My rant on the subject:

President Yanukovych of the Ukraine signed into law a bill to curb anti-government protests, a bill that did not even go through the usual process of voting but was 'passed', over the heads of opposition deputies who blocked the speaker's platform and attempted to disrupt the illegal voting, via a show of hands in a rump legislature composed of MPs loyal to the president.

A ban has been imposed on unauthorized tents, stages, or amplifiers in public areas- clearly an attempt to strike at the protests that have been camped out behind extensive barricades for the past two months. Further, vehicle protests involving more than five cars are prohibited, clearly a response to protests outside government buildings (including President Yanukovych's residence) that have occurred in recent days. Free speech has also been restricted so that 'slandering' government officials now carries a potential sentence of a year's worth of 'corrective labour'- a sentence reminiscent of Stalinist era crimes.

These anti-democratic and completely unacceptable acts have caused something of a split among various representatives of the bourgeois with Arseniy Yatsenyuk of the Batkivshchyna commenting that Ukraine is potentially facing another surge in the protests. This expresses the fears of the Ukrainian opposition, and of the European and American leaders critical of the laws, who understand that such undemocratic measures will be found intolerable be the Ukrainian proletariat. On the other hand members of the ruling party, which resorted to irregular methods after realizing that it lacked the strength to pass the bills legally, see the chance to shut the opposition out of power and rule by the iron fist. Supporters of this method, such as Party of the Regions MP Oleh Tsariov, believe that the firm hand is necessary to browbeat the proletariat into submission and crush the movement of the working class. On notable method of the split is the dismissal of Sergiy Lyovochkin, President Yanukovych's long time chief of staff, who was rumoured to be contemplating resigning after police thugs broke up a pro-EU rally in November (a move which brought tens of thousands of additional protestors onto the streets). The US state department and leading figures in the European Union have also been drawn to criticize President Yanukovych's bid for control and express token support for the protests by their desire to lure the Ukraine away from Moscow and gain it for the western powers. Notable manifestations of this include Secretary of State John Kerry's insistence that "the people of Ukraine want to affiliate and want to be associated with Europe and they want to turn in that direction," (quoted from the BBC article) and EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele's concerns that the movie compromises Ukraine's "European aspirations." The economic motivators behind these statements of bourgeois figures who don't care one whit for democracy when it is against their interests in painfully obvious as is the desire for personal political power that motivated Udar Party's Vitali Klitschko to condemn the move. Perhaps Mr. Kerry would like to comment on the anti-democratic implications of the (US backed) military coup in Honduras, the dictatorial nature of the theocratic regime in Saudi Arabia, or China's awful human rights record? No, Ukraine democracy only matters to the western bourgeois insofar as it is in their economic interests, just as Iranian democracy became something that had to be upheld and defended against the Islamic theocrats the instant the US backed dictator was overthrown.

The proletariat, on the other hand, is the only class that has a consistent, genuine interest in and commitment to the acquisition and protection of democratic rights. The socialist and communist movement has recognized on a fundamental level this ever since Marx launched his criticism of Hegel and Blanqui on basis of democratic principles, writing that "All forms of the state have democracy for their truth, and for that reason are false to the extent that they are not democracy" (from Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right). Democracy is a key component of socialist and communist theory; communism is impossible without strictest democracy and socialist is an absurdity without it. No socialist or communist can help but oppose these draconian laws and support the Ukrainian proletariat in its struggle.

The protests began as a reaction to President Yanukovych's refusal to sing the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, under Russian pressure, but have become a mass movement against widespread corruption and the rampant abuses of power in Ukraine's government. The proletariat has not come out for 2 months in the freezing cold because it prefers the European Union to Russia's customs union or feels that a loan from Brussels is any better than one from Moscow, but because it knows that something is fundamentally wrong with the system. The failure of the former 'Communist' Party of the Ukraine to recognize this and its judgment of the entire protest movement by the pro-EU sentiment and a handful of isolated incidents, such as the destruction of rather nice statue of Lenin (which may be a positive sign in the context of Stalinist rule, as Stalinism necessarily defiles the memory of Lenin by claiming his legacy, and a return to the days of Makhno, with the anarcho-communism entailed by that), demonstrate its utter failure to apply the methods of historical materialism to the situation at hand. The undialectical methods of the so-called 'Communist' Party, which has already betrayed the proletariat many times over, has led it to commit rank treason against socialism by supporting President Yanukovych in his anti-democratic bid for power. May all genuine Marxists and communists impose a damnatio memoriae on this traitorous party! More to the point, may the proletarian comrades of the Ukraine impose a damnatio memoriae on President Yanukovych, his undemocratic laws, and on capitalism as a whole!

Only socialism both in the Ukraine and elsewhere can solve the fundamental problems of capitalism which led to these massive protests. A socialist revolution in the Ukraine would immediate spread to both the European Union and Russia, repudiate the debts of the capitalists, and provide gainful employment for all. A socialist EU or a socialist Russia would not attach austerity conditions to a loan- quite the opposite- they would instead insist that the money be spent for the benefit of the Ukrainian working class. Further, a socialist Russia would not use the gas, so vital to citizens of the Ukraine during wintertime, as a economic weapon to violate the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people nor would it demand such inflated and highly exploitative prices for its use, rather it would provide the the gas to the people of the Ukraine in accordance with a harmonious plan of socialist production and make every effort to respect the self-determination of said people. Likewise, a socialist Ukraine would not seek to undermine the democratic will of its people, but would act in accordance with their desires and would not bother with petty nationalism, but would actively seek to live in peace and harmony with all of the world's peoples. For a United Socialist European Republic, both east and west!

Wat.

Have you not been taking your medication again?

You could say that, or you could actually read and reply to what I wrote.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

It produces a society of sheep.

BBBAAAAAAAAAAA

Please don't make light of this situation. Ukraine could very well spiral into extreme unrest, even civil war if this Euromaiden chirade is allowed to continue.

More information on the "peaceful protestors" http://rt.com/news/ukraine-kiev-opposition-clashes-045/

[Chetssaland]

BBBAAAAAAAAAAA

Please don't make light of this situation. Ukraine could very well spiral into extreme unrest, even civil war if this Euromaiden chirade is allowed to continue.

More information on the "peaceful protestors" http://rt.com/news/ukraine-kiev-opposition-clashes-045/

It's the police who have triggered this violence. And I'd say violent resistance is perfectly warranted in Ukraine right now. The current, corrupt government had their chance to make changes, but they've only sunk further and further into dictatorship.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

[Shofercia]

Too much optimism, not enough realism.

To be fair, it was 2004, when America was enriching the Global economy by continuing on with Iraq and Afghanistan.

America didn't exactly have a choice with Afghanistan. If you're a Superpower and you're hit, you have to hit back. Iraq on the other hand...

I'm talking about Greece being allowed to accede to the Euro in 2004, despite Eurostat showing that Greece had problems as early as 2002.

This might be something.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-2 ... -says.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16834815

EDIT: also, this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

Thank you for the sources, I agree with most of what they said, although this gem was amusing.

Greece was only able to join the euro through deception and the currency bloc’s leaders have been “too polite” ever since to deploy adequate sanctions that could have averted the region’s debt crisis, former European Central Bank Chief Economist Otmar Issing said.

Ahh yes, Mr. Issing. Looks like someone's covering his ass. Issing was on ECB's executive board when Greece was accepted into the Euro. In 2007, Issing joined Goldman Sachs. Who helped Greece cheat to join? Goldman Sachs: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-0 ... avels.html

So excuse me while I chuckle at his statement of poor, poor duped ECB who was just too darn nice to Greece. From the second article:

So Greece fulfilled the Maastricht criteria and was admitted to the eurozone on January 1, 2001 - but by 2004 the deception was becoming transparent.

The 2004 is what I'm referring to. I forget which Eurostat news I was reading, but it urged caution about Greece since 2002, as well as constant review. Take a notoriously corrupt Greek Government on top of that, and... well you get what you get.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

To be fair, it was 2004, when America was enriching the Global economy by continuing on with Iraq and Afghanistan.

America didn't exactly have a choice with Afghanistan. If you're a Superpower and you're hit, you have to hit back. Iraq on the other hand...

This might be something.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-2 ... -says.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16834815

EDIT: also, this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

Thank you for the sources, I agree with most of what they said, although this gem was amusing.

Greece was only able to join the euro through deception and the currency bloc’s leaders have been “too polite” ever since to deploy adequate sanctions that could have averted the region’s debt crisis, former European Central Bank Chief Economist Otmar Issing said.

Ahh yes, Mr. Issing. Looks like someone's covering his ass. Issing was on ECB's executive board when Greece was accepted into the Euro. In 2007, Issing joined Goldman Sachs. Who helped Greece cheat to join? Goldman Sachs: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-0 ... avels.html

So excuse me while I chuckle at his statement of poor, poor duped ECB who was just too darn nice to Greece. From the second article:

So Greece fulfilled the Maastricht criteria and was admitted to the eurozone on January 1, 2001 - but by 2004 the deception was becoming transparent.

The 2004 is what I'm referring to. I forget which Eurostat news I was reading, but it urged caution about Greece since 2002, as well as constant review. Take a notoriously corrupt Greek Government on top of that, and... well you get what you get.

Well the fact of the matter is, that America had recovered from the 9/11 economic scare and started pouring in billions of dollars into the Global economy...

[Shofercia]

Please don't make light of this situation. Ukraine could very well spiral into extreme unrest, even civil war if this Euromaiden chirade is allowed to continue.

More information on the "peaceful protestors" http://rt.com/news/ukraine-kiev-opposition-clashes-045/

It's the police who have triggered this violence. And I'd say violent resistance is perfectly warranted in Ukraine right now. The current, corrupt government had their chance to make changes, but they've only sunk further and further into dictatorship.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Yanukovich finally makes an anti austerity financial decision, after more than two decades of neglect. "Let's revolt! How dare won't this vile government allow our people to enjoy austerity!"

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

It's the police who have triggered this violence. And I'd say violent resistance is perfectly warranted in Ukraine right now. The current, corrupt government had their chance to make changes, but they've only sunk further and further into dictatorship.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Yanukovich finally makes an anti austerity financial decision, after more than two decades of neglect. "Let's revolt! How dare won't this vile government allow our people to enjoy austerity!"

Ukraine deserves to be in the are which most of it's citizens want... Besides which is the less evil part? The EU or Russia?

[Avoria (Ancient)]

Sounds like a job for the world police
....
you know him well......

he loves the colors red, white, and blue.....

...and eats mcdonalds everyday.......

.....ITTTTSSSSSS....


AAAAMMMMEEERRRIIICCCAAA!!!!!

[Shofercia]

America didn't exactly have a choice with Afghanistan. If you're a Superpower and you're hit, you have to hit back. Iraq on the other hand...




Thank you for the sources, I agree with most of what they said, although this gem was amusing.



Ahh yes, Mr. Issing. Looks like someone's covering his ass. Issing was on ECB's executive board when Greece was accepted into the Euro. In 2007, Issing joined Goldman Sachs. Who helped Greece cheat to join? Goldman Sachs: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-0 ... avels.html

So excuse me while I chuckle at his statement of poor, poor duped ECB who was just too darn nice to Greece. From the second article:



The 2004 is what I'm referring to. I forget which Eurostat news I was reading, but it urged caution about Greece since 2002, as well as constant review. Take a notoriously corrupt Greek Government on top of that, and... well you get what you get.

Well the fact of the matter is, that America had recovered from the 9/11 economic scare and started pouring in billions of dollars into the Global economy...

The 9/11 economic scare was a scare. The Great Recession that came in 2008 was the problem, and some places in the US recovered from that; others are still recovering. And even during said crash, America was still pouring in billions of dollars into the Global economy, because America has a diversified economy, a strong and stable currency, and is able to repay the debt. Neither of these factors apply to Greece.

[Dangelia]

Well, the answer to this is simple. Divide Ukraine in half. Give the eastern half to Russia and let the rest of Ukraine join the EU.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Please don't make light of this situation. Ukraine could very well spiral into extreme unrest, even civil war if this Euromaiden chirade is allowed to continue.

More information on the "peaceful protestors" http://rt.com/news/ukraine-kiev-opposition-clashes-045/

It's the police who have triggered this violence. And I'd say violent resistance is perfectly warranted in Ukraine right now. The current, corrupt government had their chance to make changes, but they've only sunk further and further into dictatorship.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

And why must there be "revolution" in the first place? Yanukovych was elected in the freest and fairest elections in Ukrainian history. He has a constitutional mandate and a responsibility to not bow towards hooligans.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Well the fact of the matter is, that America had recovered from the 9/11 economic scare and started pouring in billions of dollars into the Global economy...

The 9/11 economic scare was a scare. The Great Recession that came in 2008 was the problem, and some places in the US recovered from that; others are still recovering. And even during said crash, America was still pouring in billions of dollars into the Global economy, because America has a diversified economy, a strong and stable currency, and is able to repay the debt. Neither of these factors apply to Greece.

No, back in 2004, America was pouring in cash that had not been affected by the devaluation effect of quantitative easing...

[Shofercia]

Yanukovich finally makes an anti austerity financial decision, after more than two decades of neglect. "Let's revolt! How dare won't this vile government allow our people to enjoy austerity!"

Ukraine deserves to be in the are which most of it's citizens want... Besides which is the less evil part? The EU or Russia?

Depends on who you ask, and what they need. Ask an elderly war veteran who's more evil, the organization of nations that will hurt him economically or someone who won't affect him much, and it's not hard to figure out which answer he'll choose.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Well, the answer to this is simple. Divide Ukraine in half. Give the eastern half to Russia and let the rest of Ukraine join the EU.

Like that's ever going to be an option...