School Cancels Christmas Charity

[Benuty]

Oh the horror! Giving charity to people on a religious holiday! Oh goodness! How awful!

Seriously people, who the fuck cares if a school gives charity via a religious organization? What matters is that they are helping people in need.

Seriously people, who the fuck cares if I break into a rich person's house and give their stuff to the poor? What matters is that I am helping people in need.

I do not think that silk couch from 17th century France will help much, well maybe selling it but otherwise *shrug*.

[The Flood]

The AHA is acting like a baby, why do they care what one small school is doing. Also it isn't very humanist of them to detract from a charity for children.

Uhuh, caring about the constitution is acting like a baby. Funny how when supporting the right to bear arms, you're manly as fuck for supporting that part of the constitution.

The constitution is a 250 year old outdated piece of rubbish, it needs to be rewritten, and with the state enforced atheism removed.

[Mavorpen]

Seriously people, who the fuck cares if I break into a rich person's house and give their stuff to the poor? What matters is that I am helping people in need.

You are seriously comparing a school helping a charity that helps kids in need, to stealing?!

No.

But thanks for missing the point. Keep on refusing to read. That'll bring you far in life.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Uhuh, caring about the constitution is acting like a baby. Funny how when supporting the right to bear arms, you're manly as fuck for supporting that part of the constitution.

The constitution is a 250 year old outdated piece of rubbish, it needs to be rewritten, and with the state enforced atheism removed.

THERE IS NO STATE-ENFORCED ATHEISM!!! Leave that damn bubble you've been living in, already.

[Mavorpen]

Uhuh, caring about the constitution is acting like a baby. Funny how when supporting the right to bear arms, you're manly as fuck for supporting that part of the constitution.

The constitution is a 250 year old outdated piece of rubbish, it needs to be rewritten, and with the state enforced atheism removed.

So nothing needs to be removed? Got it.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Seriously people, who the fuck cares if I break into a rich person's house and give their stuff to the poor? What matters is that I am helping people in need.

You are seriously comparing a school helping a charity that helps kids in need, to stealing?!

Since both are against the law, yes.

[Blahbania]

Yeah...The only difference is that stealing harms people and religious charity doesn't.

Of course it does.

I definitely don't want to be pestered with annoying clergy who view me as nothing but a potential candidate for their cult.

How does religious charity harm people?

[Benuty]

The only enablers I see here are alcoholics, sheep, and phallic symbols.

I'm an alcoholic and I'm not enabling this theocraticism.

Your clearly not a committed alcoholic, otherwise you would be typing in another language for being so drunk.

[Mavorpen]

Of course it does.

I definitely don't want to be pestered with annoying clergy who view me as nothing but a potential candidate for their cult.

How does religious charity harm people?

I just told you.

Did you not bother to read my post?

[Blasveck]

Uhuh, caring about the constitution is acting like a baby. Funny how when supporting the right to bear arms, you're manly as fuck for supporting that part of the constitution.

The constitution is a 250 year old outdated piece of rubbish, it needs to be rewritten, and with the state enforced atheism removed.

Secularism =/= State Atheism

Try again.

Rewritten? Please, then, provide all the ways it needs to be rewritten and get a Constitutional Convention together.

[Blahbania]

You are seriously comparing a school helping a charity that helps kids in need, to stealing?!

Since both are against the law, yes.

Helping a charity that helps children in need is illegal?

[Benuty]

Of course it does.

I definitely don't want to be pestered with annoying clergy who view me as nothing but a potential candidate for their cult.

How does religious charity harm people?

It isn't the charity so much as it is the nature of the public schools active use of resources toward said charity for the festivities of the winter.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Yeah...The only difference is that stealing harms people and religious charity doesn't.

Of course it does.

I definitely don't want to be pestered with annoying clergy who view me as nothing but a potential candidate for their cult.

Who says that they are 'pestering' people with 'annoying clergy'?

"There's no religious literature tied with it," Mathews said. "There's no speakers who come. There's no religious affiliation at all."

[The Emerald Dawn]

Since both are against the law, yes.

Helping a charity that helps children in need is illegal

We've been over this. Try to keep up.

So...I usually use the three page rule, but I'm severely fucking bored tonight. Obviously, I'm not going to just buy the whole "Haha, fuck you, church" motivation presented, so I thought I'd look into what AHA objects to specifically. Here, from the actual letter sent:

As you should know, Samaritan’s Purse is a self-proclaimed “evangelical Christian organization providing spiritual and physical aid to hurting people around the world. . .with the purpose of sharing God’s love through His Son, Jesus Christ.” Its mission is “to follow the example of Christ by helping those in need and proclaiming the hope of the Gospel” and motto is “HELPING IN JESUS’ NAME.”

This, of course, is on the front page of the organizations website:

Since 1993, more than 100 million boys and girls in over 130 countries have experienced God’s love through the power of simple shoebox gifts from Operation Christmas Child. Samaritan’s Purse works with local churches and ministry partners to deliver the gifts and share the life-changing Good News of Jesus Christ.

"Helping in Jesus' Name" is across the top just under the title.

The letter continues-

The evangelical booklet delivered with the toys includes a conversion pledge for the child
to sign. As its founder has admitted, Operation Christmas Child “is about introducing children and their families to God’s greatest gift-His Son, Jesus Christ” and that “evangelism is the focus”of the program. He has boasted that the program has converted “tens of thousands of children and their families,”citing an example where “one shoebox prepared the way for nearly two dozen people to come to faith in Jesus Christ.” The shoebox giftsare used to “ support pastors and churches overseas who are committed to sharing the Gospel with children in the communities.”

Here is a report about the booklet in the shoe boxes.
Apparently, this was raised as a concern originally in the UK-

Yet many of the scheme's supporters, who include thousands of schools, are unaware that the organisation behind it is a US-based, evangelical and missionary Christian charity led by a controversial fundamentalist. Parents and teachers are not told that the boxes are in many cases sent overseas with religious literature.

It's important to note that this goal is stated on their website:

Giglio, the pastor of Passion City Church in Atlanta and leader of the Passion Conferences for college students, knows that packing shoebox gifts allows his congregation to support pastors and churches overseas who are committed to sharing the Gospel with children in their communities.

So, it's not a conspiracy theory that this church is using the shoeboxes to evangelize, it's right there on their very own website.

Now, that's a very different story. Not the one we were just fed, that they were innocently sending these shoeboxes that didn't have anything to do with their evangelical efforts, but instead they are sending these shoe boxes with the express intent to evangelize. And they're using the efforts of children in a federally funded school, the literal establishment of a religion in this case, really.

I think that the AHA has a point. There are secular ways for them to promote community assistance in the school and Operation Christmas Child does not seem the best fit.

EDIT: Forgot the link to the original letter EDIT2:Forgot the organizations link in the first example as well...

[Luveria]

I'm an alcoholic and I'm not enabling this theocraticism.

Your clearly not a committed alcoholic, otherwise you would be typing in another language for being so drunk.

You're moving the goalposts.

[Mavorpen]

Of course it does.

I definitely don't want to be pestered with annoying clergy who view me as nothing but a potential candidate for their cult.

Who says that they are 'pestering' people with 'annoying clergy'?

"There's no religious literature tied with it," Mathews said. "There's no speakers who come. There's no religious affiliation at all."

That's a fucking lie.

Through gift-filled shoeboxes, Operation Christmas Child helps link churches and people in the United States with churches overseas. As the gifts are delivered, boys and girls learn that God loves them so much that He sent another gift – His son, Jesus – as their Savior.

[The Flood]

It is a good charity they shouldn't have to find another one. Really, America needs to scrap the separation of church and state with a constitutional amendment.

Why do you hate freedom and America?

You're the one that hates freedom by supporting state enforced atheism.

[Luveria]

Why do you hate freedom and America?

You're the one that hates freedom by supporting state enforced atheism.

Secularism and religious equality = state atheism? TheMoreYouKnow.jpeg.

fucking pathetic.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Why do you hate freedom and America?

You're the one that hates freedom by supporting state enforced atheism.

[Citation Needed]

[Benuty]

Why do you hate freedom and America?

You're the one that hates freedom by supporting state enforced atheism.

What does state secularism have to do with state enforced atheism?

Keep in mind the US practices Secularism not Atheism!

[Blahbania]

Why do you hate freedom and America?

You're the one that hates freedom by supporting state enforced atheism.

Quite so

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Who says that they are 'pestering' people with 'annoying clergy'?

"There's no religious literature tied with it," Mathews said. "There's no speakers who come. There's no religious affiliation at all."

That's a fucking lie.

Through gift-filled shoeboxes, Operation Christmas Child helps link churches and people in the United States with churches overseas. As the gifts are delivered, boys and girls learn that God loves them so much that He sent another gift – His son, Jesus – as their Savior.

Okay, so they spend an extra minute or two saying some religious stuff. Doesn't mean they spend hours trying to convert people. "Hello, merry Christmas, God loves you!" Something akin to that doesn't seem synonymous with pestering.

[The Emerald Dawn]

That's a fucking lie.

Okay, so they spend an extra minute or two saying some religious stuff. Doesn't mean they spend hours trying to convert people. "Hello, merry Christmas, God loves you!" Something akin to that doesn't seem synonymous with pestering.

So...I usually use the three page rule, but I'm severely fucking bored tonight. Obviously, I'm not going to just buy the whole "Haha, fuck you, church" motivation presented, so I thought I'd look into what AHA objects to specifically. Here, from the actual letter sent:

As you should know, Samaritan’s Purse is a self-proclaimed “evangelical Christian organization providing spiritual and physical aid to hurting people around the world. . .with the purpose of sharing God’s love through His Son, Jesus Christ.” Its mission is “to follow the example of Christ by helping those in need and proclaiming the hope of the Gospel” and motto is “HELPING IN JESUS’ NAME.”

This, of course, is on the front page of the organizations website:

Since 1993, more than 100 million boys and girls in over 130 countries have experienced God’s love through the power of simple shoebox gifts from Operation Christmas Child. Samaritan’s Purse works with local churches and ministry partners to deliver the gifts and share the life-changing Good News of Jesus Christ.

"Helping in Jesus' Name" is across the top just under the title.

The letter continues-

The evangelical booklet delivered with the toys includes a conversion pledge for the child
to sign. As its founder has admitted, Operation Christmas Child “is about introducing children and their families to God’s greatest gift-His Son, Jesus Christ” and that “evangelism is the focus”of the program. He has boasted that the program has converted “tens of thousands of children and their families,”citing an example where “one shoebox prepared the way for nearly two dozen people to come to faith in Jesus Christ.” The shoebox giftsare used to “ support pastors and churches overseas who are committed to sharing the Gospel with children in the communities.”

Here is a report about the booklet in the shoe boxes.
Apparently, this was raised as a concern originally in the UK-

Yet many of the scheme's supporters, who include thousands of schools, are unaware that the organisation behind it is a US-based, evangelical and missionary Christian charity led by a controversial fundamentalist. Parents and teachers are not told that the boxes are in many cases sent overseas with religious literature.

It's important to note that this goal is stated on their website:

Giglio, the pastor of Passion City Church in Atlanta and leader of the Passion Conferences for college students, knows that packing shoebox gifts allows his congregation to support pastors and churches overseas who are committed to sharing the Gospel with children in their communities.

So, it's not a conspiracy theory that this church is using the shoeboxes to evangelize, it's right there on their very own website.

Now, that's a very different story. Not the one we were just fed, that they were innocently sending these shoeboxes that didn't have anything to do with their evangelical efforts, but instead they are sending these shoe boxes with the express intent to evangelize. And they're using the efforts of children in a federally funded school, the literal establishment of a religion in this case, really.

I think that the AHA has a point. There are secular ways for them to promote community assistance in the school and Operation Christmas Child does not seem the best fit.

EDIT: Forgot the link to the original letter EDIT2:Forgot the organizations link in the first example as well...

[The Flood]

Good idea, my friend. I will not be happy until a crucifix sits atop the capitol and jackboots march across the white house lawn.

If the first amendment stops charities out of some misplaced morals it should be purged.

The First Amendment does not in any way stop charities. What it does do, however, is stop public schools from associating with religious organizations.

Which it should not, because that is absurd and anti-religious. And on top of that, it is not even the original intent of the amendment. It is currently being used to suppress religion by hateful atheists, when its original purpose was exactly the opposite; to protect religion.

[Mavorpen]

Okay, so they spend an extra minute or two saying some religious stuff. Doesn't mean they spend hours trying to convert people. "Hello, merry Christmas, God loves you!" Something akin to that doesn't seem synonymous with pestering.

Of course it is.