School Cancels Christmas Charity

[Rapidblaze]

Wow. A new low, certainly. I have fundraised for this charity in the past, and despite it being a Catholic charity, it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic, I see no problem in it, and I think the AHA is being unnecessary, and for want of a better word, mean. This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

[Ifreann]

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

Read the second sentence of that post. "Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children."

[Luveria]

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

That's easy to answer.

This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

Read the underlined part. Especially the part about how it's "no different" than other charities. Other charities aren't using gifts as a conversion tool.

[Mavorpen]

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

Because again, other charities actually have the primary goal of helping children rather than converting them.

[The Emerald Dawn]

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

Because again, other charities actually have the primary goal of helping children rather than converting them.

Well, there are SRS charities.

They *do* help convert kids.

[Ifreann]

Because again, other charities actually have the primary goal of helping children rather than converting them.

Well, there are SRS charities.

They *do* help convert kids.

Badumtish.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Well, there are SRS charities.

They *do* help convert kids.

Badumtish.

Thank you, thank you.

I'll be here all week.

Please, tip your waitress.

[Rapidblaze]

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

Read the second sentence of that post. "Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children."

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

That's easy to answer.

This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

Read the underlined part. Especially the part about how it's "no different" than other charities. Other charities aren't using gifts as a conversion tool.

'it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic', at least in the minimal sense this charity is doing its job to help the poor people, irrelevant of their beliefs or not. how does this make the underlined statement a lie?

Because again, other charities actually have the primary goal of helping children rather than converting them.

my apologies for not reading the sentence correctly. i still do not understand how 'encouraging a religion (let's forget the constitution in this case of my next words)' means converting them, especially this charity is a choice

[Thanatttynia]

This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

That's a lie and you fucking know it. The group's goal is to preach to children and convert them. That's NOT the same as simply gathering gifts and distributing them to underprivileged children.

Yes, it may be their goal, but the addition of a little book of Bible quotes and a letter on conversion (Which I am led to believe is the only thing that they are using to convert the children with) to the box isn't exactly an aggressive way of conversion. The child is free to throw it away.

Wow. A new low, certainly. I have fundraised for this charity in the past, and despite it being a Catholic charity, it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic, I see no problem in it, and I think the AHA is being unnecessary, and for want of a better word, mean. This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

Read the last post on the first page of this thread and then come back and try again.

What?

Wow. A new low, certainly. I have fundraised for this charity in the past, and despite it being a Catholic charity, it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic, I see no problem in it, and I think the AHA is being unnecessary, and for want of a better word, mean. This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

[The Emerald Dawn]

That's a lie and you fucking know it. The group's goal is to preach to children and convert them. That's NOT the same as simply gathering gifts and distributing them to underprivileged children.

Yes, it may be their goal, but the addition of a little book of Bible quotes and a letter on conversion (Which I am led to believe is the only thing that they are using to convert the children with) to the box isn't exactly an aggressive way of conversion. The child is free to throw it away.

Read the last post on the first page of this thread and then come back and try again.

What?

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

Doesn't matter. If conversion is a part of their goal, they're out.

[Farnhamia]

Wow. A new low, certainly. I have fundraised for this charity in the past, and despite it being a Catholic charity, it does not deny help to Africans that aren't Catholic, I see no problem in it, and I think the AHA is being unnecessary, and for want of a better word, mean. This charity is no different to any other charity raising money to send gifts to underprivileged children.

Samaritan's Purse is not a Catholic charity.

[Condunum]

Read the second sentence of that post. "Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children."

That's easy to answer.



Read the underlined part. Especially the part about how it's "no different" than other charities. Other charities aren't using gifts as a conversion tool.

Because again, other charities actually have the primary goal of helping children rather than converting them.

my apologies for not reading the sentence correctly. i still do not understand how 'encouraging a religion (let's forget the constitution in this case of my next words)' means converting them, especially this charity is a choice

The issue isn't exactly that they're encouraging religion (prosthelytizing), it's that they're using a public school as the workforce for it. That's wrong.

[Luveria]

That's a lie. Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

So you admit conversion is one of their goals? Then it's unconstitutional for the school to support that organization.

[Ifreann]

Read the second sentence of that post. "Other charities aren't giving out toys as a tool to convert children."

That's easy to answer.



Read the underlined part. Especially the part about how it's "no different" than other charities. Other charities aren't using gifts as a conversion tool.

Because again, other charities actually have the primary goal of helping children rather than converting them.

my apologies for not reading the sentence correctly. i still do not understand how 'encouraging a religion (let's forget the constitution in this case of my next words)' means converting them, especially this charity is a choice

The children this charity is setting out to convert aren't the schoolchildren donating the toys, its the children who would be receiving the toys. That is the problem.

---

Read the last post on the first page of this thread and then come back and try again.

What?

It neatly explains how this charity is not setting out to give children toys, it's setting out to convert them to Christianity using gifts of toys, using quotes from their own website.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, it may be their goal, but the addition of a little book of Bible quotes and a letter on conversion (Which I am led to believe is the only thing that they are using to convert the children with) to the box isn't exactly an aggressive way of conversion. The child is free to throw it away.

Which is irrelevant to you being wrong about their goal.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

Yes. And that's utterly destroyed by their website and mission statement.

[Yusova]

Did I miss something, how is it unconstitutional
Because its Christmas?

[Luveria]

Did I miss something, how is it unconstitutional
Because its Christmas?

No.

Yes, it may be their goal, but the addition of a little book of Bible quotes and a letter on conversion (Which I am led to believe is the only thing that they are using to convert the children with) to the box isn't exactly an aggressive way of conversion. The child is free to throw it away.

Which is irrelevant to you being wrong about their goal.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

Yes. And that's utterly destroyed by their website and mission statement.

[Ifreann]

Did I miss something, how is it unconstitutional
Because its Christmas?

If you think you're missing something, try reading back through the thread.

[Thanatttynia]

What?

It neatly explains how this charity is not setting out to give children toys, it's setting out to convert them to Christianity using gifts of toys, using quotes from their own website.

The two goals are not mutually exclusive.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

So you admit conversion is one of their goals? Then it's unconstitutional for the school to support that organization.

I admit that, yes, and my argument was not that it was not unconstitutional, but rather that it should not be unconstitutional.

Yes, it may be their goal, but the addition of a little book of Bible quotes and a letter on conversion (Which I am led to believe is the only thing that they are using to convert the children with) to the box isn't exactly an aggressive way of conversion. The child is free to throw it away.

Which is irrelevant to you being wrong about their goal.

How was I wrong? I accepted that one of their goals is to convert the children.

Have you ever considered that the charity's goals might not solely be conversion, but goodwill?

Yes. And that's utterly destroyed by their website and mission statement.

How so?

[Luveria]

So you admit conversion is one of their goals? Then it's unconstitutional for the school to support that organization.

I admit that, yes, and my argument was not that it was not unconstitutional, but rather that it should not be unconstitutional.

Then there is nothing for you to be discussing here.

[Neo Rome Republic]

It may seem harsh, but you got to do, what you got to do.
Separation of Church and State, ACTUALLY means what it says.

[Yusova]

Did I miss something, how is it unconstitutional
Because its Christmas?

No.

Which is irrelevant to you being wrong about their goal.

Yes. And that's utterly destroyed by their website and mission statement.

I really don't find this offensive or unconstitutional

[Ifreann]

It neatly explains how this charity is not setting out to give children toys, it's setting out to convert them to Christianity using gifts of toys, using quotes from their own website.

The two goals are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not suggesting they are. That's irrelevant to the matter at hand.

So you admit conversion is one of their goals? Then it's unconstitutional for the school to support that organization.

I admit that, yes, and my argument was not that it was not unconstitutional, but rather that it should not be unconstitutional.

Why on Earth would it ever be acceptable to violate the constitution by including toys? Should the police be able to search your house without a warrant if they leave you a Rubik's cube?

[Ifreann]

No.

I really don't find this offensive or unconstitutional

Would you care to elaborate? There's been an awful lot said about how it is unconstitutional, maybe you'd like to respond to some of it? Maybe you'd like to expand on just why you think it is constitutional?

[Rapidblaze]

my apologies for not reading the sentence correctly. i still do not understand how 'encouraging a religion (let's forget the constitution in this case of my next words)' means converting them, especially this charity is a choice

The children this charity is setting out to convert aren't the schoolchildren donating the toys, its the children who would be receiving the toys. That is the problem.

---

but how is encouraging a religion the same as converting (because from the website, the donated boxes or gifts may contain words of Jesus, but not other forms that can be considered as conversion). also, is the charity really setting out to convert other people? i find that a little bit of an exaggeration, again referring to the website

my apologies for not reading the sentence correctly. i still do not understand how 'encouraging a religion (let's forget the constitution in this case of my next words)' means converting them, especially this charity is a choice

The issue isn't exactly that they're encouraging religion (prosthelytizing), it's that they're using a public school as the workforce for it. That's wrong.

fair enough, but it is still a choice whether to donate to that charity or not, and there is no pressure from the charity itself