gender-neutral bathroom mandate? poll

[Luveria]

I think bathrooms should be used by physical sex, not gender.

This.

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

[Dyakovo]

This.

100% agreed

So whose job is it going to be to check genitalia?

[Seriong]

Gender neutral already get to choose in some states in the US. Bending over backwards to provide a whole other bathroom seems quite much.

Who's suggesting that?
We're suggesting making all restrooms gender-neutral.

There are more than two sides in this conversation mate.

So back to the topic.........................
I'm keeping my urinals!

I don't see why some people are so obsessive over urinals. You can do the exact same business and more, in the same amount of time, with more privacy in a stall.

Actually, they are in fact less efficient.

I don't see why some people are so obsessive over urinals. You can do the exact same business and more, in the same amount of time, with more privacy in a stall.

Sexism. There are males who don't want to be reduced to the status of "women".

Complete strawman, great job. You can really find sexism anywhere, with enough practice.

Do you ever have an argument other than strawman logical fallacy's and mild flamebaits?

Are you going to address my post or not? Are you denying that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender? Sexism is the main reason for opposition to gender-neutral restrooms being standard, as sexists will often want a restroom for their own gender.

There has already been this issue on US navy ships. The sailors were overwhelmingly in support of urinals being removed.

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20120709/NEWS/207090321/Gender-neutral-Ford-layout-nixes-urinals

Sailor reaction
Sailors contacted by Navy Times about the changes were largely optimistic. Unauthorized to speak on the subject, they spoke only on the condition of anonymity.

Several sailors were glad to hear urinals were going away, mainly because they're harder to clean than toilets and they easily break down. One less toilet fixture also means fewer parts to have to store.

Basically they (especially those huge long ones) are more efficient at getting people in and out of the toilet, they are a more efficient use of space. The reason why the men's queue is almost always shorter than the ladies. I don't want to have to waste as much time as they do at a big event waiting to use a cubical. That's it pure and simple, efficiency.

Your argument doesn't hold up. It's a difference of seconds to get out of a stall compared to backing away from a urinal.

If your responses to my posts are going to be baits against me and personal attacks which have nothing to do with the post in question, then don't bother replying.

You then try to pin the idea that he was arguing anything in relation to people wanting to use a bathroom with their same, or opposite gender? He didn't, that's a second strawman, he was simply saying that men wanted to keep urinals.

[Luveria]

100% agreed

So whose job is it going to be to check genitalia?

Fascist Russian Empire and Akoz will be the ones to do the job since they suggested it. I'm sure they won't mind since it is what they want.

[Luveria]

Who's suggesting that?
We're suggesting making all restrooms gender-neutral.

There are more than two sides in this conversation mate.

I don't see why some people are so obsessive over urinals. You can do the exact same business and more, in the same amount of time, with more privacy in a stall.

Actually, they are in fact less efficient.

Sexism. There are males who don't want to be reduced to the status of "women".

Complete strawman, great job. You can really find sexism anywhere, with enough practice.

Are you going to address my post or not? Are you denying that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender? Sexism is the main reason for opposition to gender-neutral restrooms being standard, as sexists will often want a restroom for their own gender.

There has already been this issue on US navy ships. The sailors were overwhelmingly in support of urinals being removed.





Your argument doesn't hold up. It's a difference of seconds to get out of a stall compared to backing away from a urinal.

If your responses to my posts are going to be baits against me and personal attacks which have nothing to do with the post in question, then don't bother replying.

You then try to pin the idea that he was arguing anything in relation to people wanting to use a bathroom with their same, or opposite gender? He didn't, that's a second strawman, he was simply saying that men wanted to keep urinals.

Your point?

[Seriong]

This.

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

You, in general need to take an extra moment and examine what is being said to you, as hopefully it can stop you from almost always jumping to completely inaccurate conclusions, completely based on assumptions.

[Luveria]

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

You, in general need to take an extra moment and examine what is being said to you, as hopefully it can stop you from almost always jumping to completely inaccurate conclusions, completely based on assumptions.

Do you have anything to add to that?

[Seriong]

Your point?

My point? Aside from the fact that you are essentially admitting to employing dishonest tactics in order to discredit your 'opponent'? Do I require another?

[Seriong]

You, in general need to take an extra moment and examine what is being said to you, as hopefully it can stop you from almost always jumping to completely inaccurate conclusions, completely based on assumptions.

Do you have anything to add to that?

Nope, not really. If you have such a desire as to misrepresent people, and basically add nothing to a discussion, then I cannot stop you. The most I can do is call you out on it, which is what I have done.

[Luveria]

Your point?

My point? Aside from the fact that you are essentially admitting to employing dishonest tactics in order to discredit your 'opponent'? Do I require another?

No. It is my opinion that sexism is among the reasons, and the source I could find about feedback to urinals being removed was a positive one, showing that if it is something to go by, the majority of the populace likely wouldn't be bothered by urinals being removed. Are you enjoying launching personal attacks against me for no particular reason?

Do you have anything to add to that?

Nope, not really. If you have such a desire as to misrepresent people, and basically add nothing to a discussion, then I cannot stop you. The most I can do is call you out on it, which is what I have done.

Such as what you're doing now?

[Seriong]

My point? Aside from the fact that you are essentially admitting to employing dishonest tactics in order to discredit your 'opponent'? Do I require another?

(1)No. It is my opinion that sexism is among the reasons, and the source I could find about feedback to urinals being removed was a positive one, showing that if it is something to go by, the majority of the populace likely wouldn't be bothered by urinals being removed. Are you enjoying launching personal attacks against me for no particular reason?

Nope, not really. If you have such a desire as to misrepresent people, and basically add nothing to a discussion, then I cannot stop you. The most I can do is call you out on it, which is what I have done.

(2)Such as what you're doing now?

1) The point he presented was that he desired to have a urinal, what his motivation was, cannot be known. You then asserted that the reason he wanted a urinal was sexist. Find someway to show that that was his motivation, or you are indeed misrepresenting him.
2) I am in no way misrepresenting you, I've addressed the actions you've taken, and shown how they misrepresent the person you are responding to, it is now your job to either contest this, and show it to be incorrect, or to accept it.

[Luveria]

(1)No. It is my opinion that sexism is among the reasons, and the source I could find about feedback to urinals being removed was a positive one, showing that if it is something to go by, the majority of the populace likely wouldn't be bothered by urinals being removed. Are you enjoying launching personal attacks against me for no particular reason?



(2)Such as what you're doing now?

1) The point he presented was that he desired to have a urinal, what his motivation was, cannot be known. You then asserted that the reason he wanted a urinal was sexist. Find someway to show that that was his motivation, or you are indeed misrepresenting him.

No, it was not addressed to him. It was me giving an answer to a question another poster asked. There has already been a moderation thread about it. Nathi's suggestion was I should have removed the quoted quote to have prevented the possibility of people misinterpreting it as being directed at someone I didn't direct it at.

2) I am in no way misrepresenting you, I've addressed the actions you've taken, and shown how they misrepresent the person you are responding to, it is now your job to either contest this, and show it to be incorrect, or to accept it.

See above.

[Seriong]

1) The point he presented was that he desired to have a urinal, what his motivation was, cannot be known. You then asserted that the reason he wanted a urinal was sexist. Find someway to show that that was his motivation, or you are indeed misrepresenting him.

No, it was not addressed to him. It was me giving an answer to a question another poster asked. There has already been a moderation thread about it. Nathi's suggestion was I should have removed the quoted quote to have prevented the possibility of people misinterpreting it as being directed at someone I didn't direct it at.

2) I am in no way misrepresenting you, I've addressed the actions you've taken, and shown how they misrepresent the person you are responding to, it is now your job to either contest this, and show it to be incorrect, or to accept it.

See above.

The only possible way I can see that situation is that you were simply lying to get out of that situation, the reason for this, is that when he then questioned you on this, instead of saying "I was not addressing you, nor calling you a sexist, I was simply presenting a potential answer to the question posed" you continued to paint him as a sexist saying

Are you going to address my post or not? (1)Are you denying that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender? Sexism is the main reason for opposition to gender-neutral restrooms being standard, as sexists will often want a restroom for their own gender.

Even if we are to concede that you are not calling him a sexist, you are still trying to misrepresent him at the sentence I marked as "(1)". You try to say he denied something he never did.

Edit: Even if we disregard all of this, there is still what you did here:

This.

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

[Luveria]

No, it was not addressed to him. It was me giving an answer to a question another poster asked. There has already been a moderation thread about it. Nathi's suggestion was I should have removed the quoted quote to have prevented the possibility of people misinterpreting it as being directed at someone I didn't direct it at.



See above.

The only possible way I can see that situation is that you were simply lying to get out of that situation, the reason for this, is that when he then questioned you on this, instead of saying "I was not addressing you, nor calling you a sexist, I was simply presenting a potential answer to the question posed" you continued to paint him as a sexist saying

Are you going to address my post or not? (1)Are you denying that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender? Sexism is the main reason for opposition to gender-neutral restrooms being standard, as sexists will often want a restroom for their own gender.

Even if we are to concede that you are not calling him a sexist, you are still trying to misrepresent him at the sentence I marked as "(1)". You try to say he denied something he never did.

The post was not addressed at him. I tried to explain that but he continued acting as if I secretly did mean for the post to be directed at him. At that were the case, I inquired if he was disagreeing with my post which is why I asked the question. At no point did I imply he I believe he is a sexist or held such views. If I had worded my question as "Would you agree that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender?" would you be attacking me as you are now when the question's legitimacy stands?

[Seriong]

The only possible way I can see that situation is that you were simply lying to get out of that situation, the reason for this, is that when he then questioned you on this, instead of saying "I was not addressing you, nor calling you a sexist, I was simply presenting a potential answer to the question posed" you continued to paint him as a sexist saying

Even if we are to concede that you are not calling him a sexist, you are still trying to misrepresent him at the sentence I marked as "(1)". You try to say he denied something he never did.

The post was not addressed at him. I tried to explain that but he continued acting as if I secretly did mean for the post to be directed at him. At that were the case, I inquired if he was disagreeing with my post which is why I asked the question. At no point did I imply he I believe he is a sexist or held such views. If I had worded my question as "Would you agree that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender?" would you be attacking me as you are now when the question's legitimacy stands?

Actually, you didn't try to explain that the post was not directed after him in between those two posts. You say that the reason someone wouldn't want urinals is sexism, right after that he says you are strawmanning him, directly after that you ask him to address what you said. He has no reason to, as apparently it wasn't directed at him, but that makes these two things very inconsistent, doesn't it.

You also may wish to see my edit, as this is not the only example.

[Luveria]

The post was not addressed at him. I tried to explain that but he continued acting as if I secretly did mean for the post to be directed at him. At that were the case, I inquired if he was disagreeing with my post which is why I asked the question. At no point did I imply he I believe he is a sexist or held such views. If I had worded my question as "Would you agree that there are some males who do not want to use the same restroom as women due to sexist reasons such as wanting their own room for their own gender?" would you be attacking me as you are now when the question's legitimacy stands?

Actually, you didn't try to explain that the post was not directed after him in between those two posts. You say that the reason someone wouldn't want urinals is sexism, right after that he says you are strawmanning him, directly after that you ask him to address what you said. He has no reason to, as apparently it wasn't directed at him, but that makes these two things very inconsistent, doesn't it.

You also may wish to see my edit, as this is not the only example.

You're mistaken. I did explain it to him in the moderation thread which was going on simultaneously with the discussion here. I gave the reason for why I asked him the question.

That poster mentioned in your edit is someone I had known to be a transphobe privately before their other nation was DEATed. With that information in mind, that is why I directly question why he holds discriminatory views against transgender people. In fact, the reason I ceased conversing with that individual was because their transphobia was upsetting me.

[The Emerald Dawn]

100% agreed

So whose job is it going to be to check genitalia?

Mine.

[Seriong]

Actually, you didn't try to explain that the post was not directed after him in between those two posts. You say that the reason someone wouldn't want urinals is sexism, right after that he says you are strawmanning him, directly after that you ask him to address what you said. He has no reason to, as apparently it wasn't directed at him, but that makes these two things very inconsistent, doesn't it.

You also may wish to see my edit, as this is not the only example.

You're mistaken. I did explain it to him in the moderation thread which was going on simultaneously with the discussion here. I gave the reason for why I asked him the question.

That poster mentioned in your edit is someone I had known to be a transphobe privately before their other nation was DEATed. With that information in mind, that is why I directly question why he holds discriminatory views against transgender people. In fact, the reason I ceased conversing with that individual was because their transphobia was upsetting me.

You said that the post wasn't directed after him, after telling him to address what you brought up, thus tying him to it.
Approximately 4 minutes after.

Edit: But really this doesn't matter, and if we continue you're going to start another thread on moderation, and incite some more action upon one of us, or both of us.

[The Emerald Dawn]

You're mistaken. I did explain it to him in the moderation thread which was going on simultaneously with the discussion here. I gave the reason for why I asked him the question.

That poster mentioned in your edit is someone I had known to be a transphobe privately before their other nation was DEATed. With that information in mind, that is why I directly question why he holds discriminatory views against transgender people. In fact, the reason I ceased conversing with that individual was because their transphobia was upsetting me.

You said that the post wasn't directed after him, after telling him to address what you brought up, thus tying him to it.
Approximately 4 minutes after.

And all of this has what to do with gender-neutral bathrooms?

Or are we just picking fights because it's Friday?

[Seriong]

You said that the post wasn't directed after him, after telling him to address what you brought up, thus tying him to it.
Approximately 4 minutes after.

And all of this has what to do with gender-neutral bathrooms?

Or are we just picking fights because it's Friday?

The latter. Also I get annoyed when people are dishonest. Although of course, we've derailed enough.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

This.

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

I don't hate transgender people, nor do I have anything against them. I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

I don't hate transgender people, nor do I have anything against them. I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

Pourquoi?

[Luveria]

Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you want to put them at risk? Are the lives of transgender people not difficult enough already with a 50% suicide attempt rate? And yet you want to deny them the right to use the bathroom of their gender?

(Image)

I don't hate transgender people, nor do I have anything against them. I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

If you have nothing against transgender people, why are you opposed to them using the bathroom of their gender? You're wanting men to use women's bathrooms and women to use men's bathrooms.

I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

Gender isn't physical. Gender doesn't exist as anything but what a person identifies as.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else

If you want to say the APA is wrong, go ahead, but you better have a source to back up your belief.

What is your discriminatory solution to intersex people who have both male and female genitalia? Can they use either bathroom? Are they forced to use gender neutral bathrooms only? Why does it matter so much to you what genitalia a man or woman has if they pass as the gender they identify as? Are you actually looking at other people's genitalia when you're in the restroom? Are transgender men required to get an artificial penis before you let them use the men's room? Are transgender women required to get SRS before you let them use the women's room? Or would even then they be restricted from using the bathroom of their gender?

And you say you have nothing against transgender people... right....

[Fascist Russian Empire]

I don't hate transgender people, nor do I have anything against them. I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

If you have nothing against transgender people, why are you opposed to them using the bathroom of their gender? You're wanting men to use women's bathrooms and women to use men's bathrooms.

I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

Gender isn't physical. Gender doesn't exist as anything but what a person identifies as.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else

If you want to say the APA is wrong, go ahead, but you better have a source to back up your belief.

What is your discriminatory solution to intersex people who have both male and female genitalia? Can they use either bathroom? Are they forced to use gender neutral bathrooms only? Why does it matter so much to you what genitalia a man or woman has if they pass the gender they identify as? Are you actually looking at other people's genitalia when you're in the restroom? Are transgender men required to get an artificial penis before you let them use the men's room? Are transgender women required to get SRS before you let them use the women's room? Or would even then they be restricted from using the bathroom of their gender?

And you say you have nothing against transgender people... right....

Well, on second thought, I suppose that gender-neutral restrooms ain't such a bad idea after all. I concede.

[The Emerald Dawn]

I don't hate transgender people, nor do I have anything against them. I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

If you have nothing against transgender people, why are you opposed to them using the bathroom of their gender? You're wanting men to use women's bathrooms and women to use men's bathrooms.

I just think that bathrooms should be based around physical gender, not around gender identity.

Gender isn't physical. Gender doesn't exist as anything but what a person identifies as.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else

If you want to say the APA is wrong, go ahead, but you better have a source to back up your belief.

What is your discriminatory solution to intersex people who have both male and female genitalia? Can they use either bathroom? Are they forced to use gender neutral bathrooms only? Why does it matter so much to you what genitalia a man or woman has if they pass as the gender they identify as? Are you actually looking at other people's genitalia when you're in the restroom? Are transgender men required to get an artificial penis before you let them use the men's room? Are transgender women required to get SRS before you let them use the women's room? Or would even then they be restricted from using the bathroom of their gender?

And you say you have nothing against transgender people... right....

The APA is wrong.

They removed Asperger's from the DSM