gender-neutral bathroom mandate? poll

[Dyakovo]

That actively harms transgender people. This man shouldn't be told to use the women's room.

For the new system Lianhua proposed, lets have one restroom door with a penis on it, and the other with a vagina. That means FtMs use the vagina restroom until they get a penis, and MtFs use the penis restroom until they have had SRS. Intersex people can go into whichever restroom they want. People who have lost their genitalia aren't allowed to use any restroom. It will be enforced by having a genitalia inspector at the restroom entrance to have a look at everyone's genitalia before they can go in. Children will not be exempt from genitalia inspections.

What about the transgender females who don't ever want SRS, and thus will be forever forced to go into the men's restroom to get harassed by every man inside who will know the person is a transgender women since the genitalia inspector forced them to use the men's room? As usual, these proposals of grouping people by their genitalia are nothing more than a less-than-subtle way to remind transgender people how hated they are.

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

[Luveria]

For the new system Lianhua proposed, lets have one restroom door with a penis on it, and the other with a vagina. That means FtMs use the vagina restroom until they get a penis, and MtFs use the penis restroom until they have had SRS. Intersex people can go into whichever restroom they want. People who have lost their genitalia aren't allowed to use any restroom. It will be enforced by having a genitalia inspector at the restroom entrance to have a look at everyone's genitalia before they can go in. Children will not be exempt from genitalia inspections.

What about the transgender females who don't ever want SRS, and thus will be forever forced to go into the men's restroom to get harassed by every man inside who will know the person is a transgender women since the genitalia inspector forced them to use the men's room? As usual, these proposals of grouping people by their genitalia are nothing more than a less-than-subtle way to remind transgender people how hated they are.

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

The second most common reason after fearing surgery risks would be women who would rather have a penis. That causes problems for them in countries like Canada where they aren't legally recognized as a female on any documents unless they get SRS. With a legal attitude like that already in place, I'm not surprised people like Lianhau would extend their restrooms system to treating non-SRS women the same way. Additionally, it takes no less than two years of having been on HRT to get SRS, so genitalia-based systems affect everyone unfairly.

[Grenartia]

That actively harms transgender people. This man shouldn't be told to use the women's room.

For the new system Lianhua proposed, lets have one restroom door with a penis on it, and the other with a vagina. That means FtMs use the vagina restroom until they get a penis, and MtFs use the penis restroom until they have had SRS. Intersex people can go into whichever restroom they want. People who have lost their genitalia aren't allowed to use any restroom. It will be enforced by having a genitalia inspector at the restroom entrance to have a look at everyone's genitalia before they can go in. Children will not be exempt from genitalia inspections.

What about the transgender females who don't ever want SRS, and thus will be forever forced to go into the men's restroom to get harassed by every man inside who will know the person is a transgender women since the genitalia inspector forced them to use the men's room? As usual, these proposals of grouping people by their genitalia are nothing more than a less-than-subtle way to remind transgender people how hated they are.

Indeed.

[Dyakovo]

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

The second most common reason after fearing surgery risks would be women who would rather have a penis. That causes problems for them in countries like Canada where they aren't legally recognized as a female on any documents unless they get SRS. With a legal attitude like that already in place, I'm not surprised people like Lianhau would extend their restrooms system to treating non-SRS women the same way. Additionally, it takes no less than two years of having been on HRT to get SRS, so genitalia-based systems affect everyone unfairly.

Ah, okay. Thanks. It seems strange to me but, as we've discussed before, being transgender seems strange on it's own.

[Linux and the X]

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

Some may want it but be unable to afford it. Also, FTM bottom surgery is not very well-developed; many trans men therefore don't bother.

[Grenartia]

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

Some may want it but be unable to afford it. Also, FTM bottom surgery is not very well-developed; many trans men therefore don't bother.

Indeed. IIRC, FtM bottom surgery options are either inconvenient, risky/dangerous, or both.

[Luveria]

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

Some may want it but be unable to afford it. Also, FTM bottom surgery is not very well-developed; many trans men therefore don't bother.

The problem of being unable to afford it is a phenomenon mainly limited to the US in the western world.

[Ostroeuropa]

Some may want it but be unable to afford it. Also, FTM bottom surgery is not very well-developed; many trans men therefore don't bother.

The problem of being unable to afford it is a phenomenon mainly limited to the US in the western world.

And beyond that, i'm more than happy to grandfather clause in currently installed bathrooms and give them a little slack, provided all future bathrooms meet the gender neutrality requirement.
We don't have to do it all overnight.

This has the added benefit of making Gender Neutral bathrooms seem "Futuristic" and "New", which will mean large businesses will probably calculate it's to their public images interest to renovate.

[Luveria]

The problem of being unable to afford it is a phenomenon mainly limited to the US in the western world.

And beyond that, i'm more than happy to grandfather clause in currently installed bathrooms and give them a little slack, provided all future bathrooms meet the gender neutrality requirement.
We don't have to do it all overnight.

This has the added benefit of making Gender Neutral bathrooms seem "Futuristic" and "New", which will mean large businesses will probably calculate it's to their public images interest to renovate.

The religious right will be unhappy about it.

[Dyakovo]

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious about reasons for a trans* not wanting SRS... I can think of one (it's major surgery and Thus carries with it significant risk), I was wondering if there were any others...

Some may want it but be unable to afford it. Also, FTM bottom surgery is not very well-developed; many trans men therefore don't bother.

Wanting the surgery but not being able to afford it is not "not wanting the surgery", so congratulations on completely failing to address my question.

[Ostroeuropa]

And beyond that, i'm more than happy to grandfather clause in currently installed bathrooms and give them a little slack, provided all future bathrooms meet the gender neutrality requirement.
We don't have to do it all overnight.

This has the added benefit of making Gender Neutral bathrooms seem "Futuristic" and "New", which will mean large businesses will probably calculate it's to their public images interest to renovate.

The religious right will be unhappy about it.

I doubt they'd be in the voter base for the government willing to consider this action.
So... fuckem.

[Luveria]

The religious right will be unhappy about it.

I doubt they'd be in the voter base for the government willing to consider this action.
So... fuckem.

You can't get elected without the support of the religious right.

[The Emerald Dawn]

I doubt they'd be in the voter base for the government willing to consider this action.
So... fuckem.

Republicans can't get elected without the support of the religious right.

FTFY.

[Rapidblaze]

if it does not affect hygiene, then i am fine

[Ostroeuropa]

Republicans can't get elected without the support of the religious right.

FTFY.

This.

[Charzak]

Bathrooms/restrooms should be segregated based on what genitals you have.

That actively harms transgender people. This man shouldn't be told to use the women's room.

1. Two genders based on your genitalia. 2. Two bathrooms. 3. Why fix it if it isn't broke? 4. Never actually seen someone complain about two bathrooms in real life.

1. Except there's more than two genders, and gender isn't based on sex.
2. And there's a need for more than two bathrooms.
3. The current system is very much broke, and needs fixing.
4. Doesn't mean we don't exist.

There are two genders determined by your sex chromosomes. You get XX you're a female. You get XY you're a male. If you have a sex change, boom you are now the opposite gender/sex. Use the bathroom you have designated. You were comfortable enough in your situation to switch your sex, now accept the life you are living and what comes with it. You shouldn't be insecure in who you are. I'm a straight male and I have no problem with that. That's me, that's who I am. Does that make me a homophobe or a transsexualphobe(?). No. But why should you get any special treatment just because you decided to accept how you are inside? That's the part people don't get. Once you accept it, stop getting up in our face about it all. We're happy that you did it yes, but you don't deserve special treatment. As for the people who don't accept you, well that's a hate crime if they harm you in anyway so bring it to the authorities.
(Note: Only the first two sentences are directed at the author of the quote.)

[Luveria]

That actively harms transgender people. This man shouldn't be told to use the women's room.



1. Except there's more than two genders, and gender isn't based on sex.
2. And there's a need for more than two bathrooms.
3. The current system is very much broke, and needs fixing.
4. Doesn't mean we don't exist.

There are two genders determined by your sex chromosomes. You get XX you're a female. You get XY you're a male. If you have a sex change, boom you are now the opposite gender/sex. Use the bathroom you have designated. You were comfortable enough in your situation to switch your sex, now accept the life you are living and what comes with it. You shouldn't be insecure in who you are. I'm a straight male and I have no problem with that. That's me, that's who I am. Does that make me a homophobe or a transsexualphobe(?). No. But why should you get any special treatment just because you decided to accept how you are inside? That's the part people don't get. Once you accept it, stop getting up in our face about it all. We're happy that you did it yes, but you don't deserve special treatment. As for the people who don't accept you, well that's a hate crime if they harm you in anyway so bring it to the authorities.
(Note: Only the first two sentences are directed at the author of the quote.)

Gender being what a person self-identifies as... what relevancy are their chromosomes to their gender?

[Kumrann]

It's not something I disagree with in principle. Although their is a bar where I live with gender neutral toilets and the girls take forever! which is a nightmare when your waiting in a line to pee ...

[Kumrann]

I doubt they'd be in the voter base for the government willing to consider this action.
So... fuckem.

You can't get elected without the support of the religious right.

where do you live? if that's true, then it sounds awful!

[Charzak]

There are two genders determined by your sex chromosomes. You get XX you're a female. You get XY you're a male. If you have a sex change, boom you are now the opposite gender/sex. Use the bathroom you have designated. You were comfortable enough in your situation to switch your sex, now accept the life you are living and what comes with it. You shouldn't be insecure in who you are. I'm a straight male and I have no problem with that. That's me, that's who I am. Does that make me a homophobe or a transsexualphobe(?). No. But why should you get any special treatment just because you decided to accept how you are inside? That's the part people don't get. Once you accept it, stop getting up in our face about it all. We're happy that you did it yes, but you don't deserve special treatment. As for the people who don't accept you, well that's a hate crime if they harm you in anyway so bring it to the authorities.
(Note: Only the first two sentences are directed at the author of the quote.)

Gender being what a person self-identifies as... what relevancy are their chromosomes to their gender?

Chromosomes determine your physical sex/gender. I don't know how anyone else was raised but I always thought the two were interchangeable and that's how I meant it. I don't buy into the whole homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, etc. is genetic thing, though I don't think its necessarily a choice either. Your physical gender and how you choose to identify yourself are different and a choice each individual can make.

[Lost heros]

Gender being what a person self-identifies as... what relevancy are their chromosomes to their gender?

Chromosomes determine your physical sex/gender. I don't know how anyone else was raised but I always thought the two were interchangeable and that's how I meant it. I don't buy into the whole homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, etc. is genetic thing, though I don't think its necessarily a choice either. Your physical gender and how you choose to identify yourself are different and a choice each individual can make.

Gender is a social construct and an identity with which someone identifies with. Sex is a biological characteristic. The two are NOT interchangeable.

[The Carlisle]

Gender being what a person self-identifies as... what relevancy are their chromosomes to their gender?

Chromosomes determine your physical sex/gender. I don't know how anyone else was raised but I always thought the two were interchangeable and that's how I meant it. I don't buy into the whole homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, etc. is genetic thing, though I don't think its necessarily a choice either. Your physical gender and how you choose to identify yourself are different and a choice each individual can make.

Did you pass high school biology? Because we were taught about chromosomal pairings and its not all XX and XY. There is XXY or more commonly known as Klinfelter's Syndrome. There's also X, XXX, XXXX, and a lot more variations. If we used chromosomal pairings as our basis of gender, there would be over a dozen genders.

[Charzak]

Chromosomes determine your physical sex/gender. I don't know how anyone else was raised but I always thought the two were interchangeable and that's how I meant it. I don't buy into the whole homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, etc. is genetic thing, though I don't think its necessarily a choice either. Your physical gender and how you choose to identify yourself are different and a choice each individual can make.

Gender is a social construct and an identity with which someone identifies with. Sex is a biological characteristic. The two are NOT interchangeable.

Well then I apologize. I'll own my mistake. But my point still stands. Two sexes. Choose one or the other of your own free will. Go to the bathroom which corresponds to your current physical sex. If you were comfortable enough to have a sex change then go to the bathroom of which you changed to. Stalls are present in almost every bathroom. No one has to know your business. You've accepted who you are and the majority of people will not bother you. Don't ask for special treatment because you are different.

[Jerusalem and Damascus]

I'm supportive of the idea of de-segregating bathrooms. Such stringent separation is a fairly new and I feel damaging development in human society and it's inefficient, too. By having co-ed bathrooms, we'd save more space in buildings.

[The Carlisle]

Gender is a social construct and an identity with which someone identifies with. Sex is a biological characteristic. The two are NOT interchangeable.

Well then I apologize. I'll own my mistake. But my point still stands. Two sexes. Choose one or the other of your own free will. Go to the bathroom which corresponds to your current physical sex. If you were comfortable enough to have a sex change then go to the bathroom of which you changed to. Stalls are present in almost every bathroom. No one has to know your business. You've accepted who you are and the majority of people will not bother you. Don't ask for special treatment because you are different.

We're not asking for special treatment. All we ask is to be treated the same.