The Cold War Thread

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Now, this is a split from the thread "Gay Weddings Legalized in... Wait, Vietnam?"

It is since, as far as I can see, there is a bit of a discussion about the USSR, communism, and the United States' role in all this. So this is a perfectly good thread to bring over the conversation.

That being said, I will go ahead and make a partial resume of what we have discussed:

- The Vietnam War
- Ukraine
- USSR-US relations
- Other minute stuff on the Cold War

This is not only for those topics though, if anything, it's for anything and everything about the cold war.

And I will start with this little tidbit:

I'm translating this as "I don't understand Cold War-era realities".



"We don't even like these assholes."

Lets see , ukrainians hated the russians , polish hated the russian , the baltic nations hated the russians , most non russians hated the russians , the chinese hated the russians , hell most of the russian "allies" hated the russians , and while most of the US allied nations showed disdain for the us , Excluding of course , TheNetherlands , West Germany , Great Britain , Japan , And basically everyone who hated the russians more then they hated the US, They never hated them

What?! You ARE conscious that this not remotely the reality of the USSR relations with other countries, right

[Souseiseki]

oh cool so you already covered how north vietnam was basically right uguu right

[Soldati Senza Confini]

oh cool so you already covered how north vietnam was basically right uguu right

I don't think we have covered that much but care to explain what you mean by that?

[The Emerald Dawn]

I'm trying to figure out how they think that the people in the nuclear silos wouldn't be loyalists.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm trying to figure out how they think that the people in the nuclear silos wouldn't be loyalists.

Wait, what?

Just because people are in nuclear silos doesn't mean they can't be loyalists.

I don't even...

[The Emerald Dawn]

I'm trying to figure out how they think that the people in the nuclear silos wouldn't be loyalists.

Wait, what?

Just because people are in nuclear silos doesn't mean they can't be loyalists.

I don't even...

Ukraine turning their nuclear arms against the CCCP. They pointed out that this was going to happen.

[Vetalia]

I'm trying to figure out how they think that the people in the nuclear silos wouldn't be loyalists.

I think the bigger question is whether they'd be willing to go ahead with the decision to launch. It's a pretty momentous decision considering you'll almost certainly guarantee the extermination of almost all life on Earth in the process.

[The Emerald Dawn]

I'm trying to figure out how they think that the people in the nuclear silos wouldn't be loyalists.

I think the bigger question is whether they'd be willing to go ahead with the decision to launch. It's a pretty momentous decision considering you'll almost certainly guarantee the extermination of almost all life on Earth in the process.

Or at least all life in the Ukraine.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Wait, what?

Just because people are in nuclear silos doesn't mean they can't be loyalists.

I don't even...

Ukraine turning their nuclear arms against the CCCP. They pointed out that this was going to happen.

Not likely,

Ukraine has too much to lose if they were to turn their nuclear arms against the CCCP. It's not even a feasible strategy considering more powerful countries like the US and Russia would stop them flat.

[Vetalia]

Or at least all life in the Ukraine.

I think if a nuclear exchange between countries occurred during the era of ICBMs it would be a global affair. God knows how close we came during Able Archer...

[The Emerald Dawn]

Or at least all life in the Ukraine.

I think if a nuclear exchange between countries occurred during the era of ICBMs it would be a global affair. God knows how close we came during Able Archer...

There's always a slim chance of a sane limited counter strike. Since it would be the CCCP nuking the CCCP, everyone else would possibly just sit back and gape in open terror.

[Vetalia]

There's always a slim chance of a sane limited counter strike. Since it would be the CCCP nuking the CCCP, everyone else would possibly just sit back and gape in open terror.

For sure, but even then there's still a ton of radiation drifting East and West, and it's possible enough countries would be alarmed enough to launch (especially if one side or both decide to pull a false flag and launch towards another country).

[Kumrann]

What I wonder is if it was possible for the USSR to last into the 21st century? if it had reformed but not collapsed entirely what would the knock on effect be on global politics - would we still all be living in fear of an all out nuclear war or would the US and the USSR have a relationship akin to the one it has with Russia now. I don't know at all ! but hey if someone has some sort of reckoning I would be ya know interested!

[The Emerald Dawn]

What I wonder is if it was possible for the USSR to last into the 21st century? if it had reformed but not collapsed entirely what would the knock on effect be on global politics - would we still all be living in fear of an all out nuclear war or would the US and the USSR have a relationship akin to the one it has with Russia now. I don't know at all ! but hey if someone has some sort of reckoning I would be ya know interested!

A large part of the Cold War ending was the realization that any strategy used would end in bloodshed on a truly global scale. Nobody wanted it, not even the most frothing at the mouth politician thought it was a good idea to plunge the world into the dark ages, or worse.

Time was on the West's side, and that ultimately helped sanity win.

[The Corparation]

I think if a nuclear exchange between countries occurred during the era of ICBMs it would be a global affair. God knows how close we came during Able Archer...

There's always a slim chance of a sane limited counter strike. Since it would be the CCCP nuking the CCCP, everyone else would possibly just sit back and gape in open terror.

Any launch of an ICBM sets of red flags all across the world. By the time that they'd figured out the USSR was shooting itself, chances are even a NATO counter-strike would be in the air.

Also am I the only one that foresees this turning into a gay marriage debate?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What I wonder is if it was possible for the USSR to last into the 21st century? if it had reformed but not collapsed entirely what would the knock on effect be on global politics - would we still all be living in fear of an all out nuclear war or would the US and the USSR have a relationship akin to the one it has with Russia now. I don't know at all ! but hey if someone has some sort of reckoning I would be ya know interested!

I think it wouldn't have.

There were too many internal tensions for it to have lasted into the 21st century. Besides the Slavic nations they engulfed Eastern Europe, and that was a whole mess.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

There's always a slim chance of a sane limited counter strike. Since it would be the CCCP nuking the CCCP, everyone else would possibly just sit back and gape in open terror.

Any launch of an ICBM sets of red flags all across the world. By the time that they'd figured out the USSR was shooting itself, chances are even a NATO counter-strike would be in the air.

Also am I the only one that foresees this turning into a gay marriage debate?

Reverse threading?

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Vetalia]

What I wonder is if it was possible for the USSR to last into the 21st century? if it had reformed but not collapsed entirely what would the knock on effect be on global politics - would we still all be living in fear of an all out nuclear war or would the US and the USSR have a relationship akin to the one it has with Russia now. I don't know at all ! but hey if someone has some sort of reckoning I would be ya know interested!

It wouldn't have lasted; the reforms promoted by Gorbachev were out of necessity, if not desperation. Once the oil boom ended in the early 1980's the Soviet economy simply couldn't sustain itself for much longer; combine this with similar malaise in its satellite states and growing discontent with their regimes and it was just a tinderbox waiting to explode.

[Mike the Progressive]

oh cool so you already covered how north vietnam was basically right uguu right

I wouldn't say North Vietnam was right as much as I would say the US was wrong to intervene. Then again, what did Vietnam mean to us compared to potentially losing France as an ally?

[The Corparation]

oh cool so you already covered how north vietnam was basically right uguu right

I wouldn't say North Vietnam was right as much as I would say the US was wrong to intervene. Then again, what did Vietnam mean to us compared to potentially losing France as an ally?

America wouldn't have lost France as an ally if they'd bothered following the 1954 Geneva Accords, rather than blatantly violating them for twenty years only to settle on almost identical terms.

[Mike the Progressive]

I wouldn't say North Vietnam was right as much as I would say the US was wrong to intervene. Then again, what did Vietnam mean to us compared to potentially losing France as an ally?

America wouldn't have lost France as an ally if they'd bothered following the 1954 Geneva Accords, rather than blatantly violating them for twenty years only to settle on almost identical terms.

Eh, I suspect we would have anyway. France kept leading us on to believe they'd join a common defense organization (which included rearming the Germans) if we just kept on helping them in Indochina. We did, they didn't.

[Hollorous]

I wouldn't say North Vietnam was right as much as I would say the US was wrong to intervene. Then again, what did Vietnam mean to us compared to potentially losing France as an ally?

America wouldn't have lost France as an ally if they'd bothered following the 1954 Geneva Accords, rather than blatantly violating them for twenty years only to settle on almost identical terms.

France pretty much had nothing to do with Indochina after their war anyway, right? Too busy being knee deep in blood in Algeria and having their republic get couped by the military and whatnot.

American participation in Vietnam had peculiar bookends. It began with a peace agreement (1954 Geneva) that no one really followed and ended with a peace agreement (1973 Paris) that no one really followed.

So it goes.

[Mike the Progressive]

America wouldn't have lost France as an ally if they'd bothered following the 1954 Geneva Accords, rather than blatantly violating them for twenty years only to settle on almost identical terms.

France pretty much had nothing to do with Indochina after their war anyway, right? Too busy being knee deep in blood in Algeria and having their republic get couped by the military and whatnot.

American participation in Vietnam had peculiar bookends. It began with a peace agreement (1954 Geneva) that no one really followed and ended with a peace agreement (1973 Paris) that no one really followed.

So it goes.

Another good point, nobody took the accords seriously. Certainly not us and certainly not Minh.

[Shofercia]

A nuclear exchange between the Soviets and the Soviets, was impossible. The silos were manned by extremely loyal soldiers, who proved themselves time and again. They were reenforced by SpetzNaz, so that no actual capturing of a nuclear silo could take place. On top of that, the perimeter was protected by the Red Army loyal to Moscow, not to Kiev. Only in a crazy World would you magically have ponies capturing Soviet, or, for that matter, American silos.