Is the Confederate Flag offensive?

[Kingdom of Israel]

I don't find it offensive.

[The New Aztecs]

I think it should be legal. I think it is racist.

[Orham]

I'm just saying the legality of it and the morality are separate issues.

Right, and I'm simply saying that a system which allows anyone, anywhere, anytime to simply redraw political boundaries at will strikes me as too chaotic. Now, that doesn't mean I feel sovereignty over a given territory cannot or should not be able to be transferred at all. It simply means that sovereignty over a given territory ought to only be transferred in the event that the current holder thereof yields it to another party for some reason (purchase, for example). That's the moral argument.

The debate from there becomes whether states have the power to unilaterally secede from the Union, and thus whether they hold sovereignty over the territory of which they are comprised. And the US Supreme Court has already answered that question with an emphatic no. That's the legal argument.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I think it is as much of a right for people to decide to use their own power to be independent if needed as the state's right to keep the country united and indivisible, along with the duty it has to its citizens to look towards their interest. The state will always be nationalistic in nature, it is the modern nation-state we are talking about and as such the nation-state will not let go of something that, in its own best interest, is best to keep even if it is by force.

States don't have rights, they have duties and responsibilities towards their citizenry, the citizens know their own self interest better than the state does, the state will probably act dickish and towards the interests of the people at the top that run the state, doesn't mean the state is very justified in doing so.

The state's only justification is national unity and to maintain a sensible degree of cohesion and order to prevent any attempts at independence.

Yes, people have a right to secede, yes, people have a right to create their own independent countries with or without their motherland's permission. However, to say the government should stay out of it is basically denying the fact that the state is run by people, and as such said people will find any justification to keep said territory annexed if there is even the slightest interest in it. It doesn't matter whether the people of said territory want it or not, and they will have to fight for their independence.

[The Rebel Alliances]

The Confederate Flag: A symbol of independence and slavery, freedom and bigotry. To some Americans, the Confederate flag details the pride of the south, it is the very symbol of a rebellion against the oppressors. To others, the flag is a wicked representation of the evils of slavery, and is a symbol of bigotry.

What is your viewpoint on the Confederate flag, and its legality in the states?

It can be offensive. But I am pretty sure some Native Americans find the US flag offensive. It really just depends on your viewpoint. In my RPs, I play a Confederate States of America. And the Confederate Third National was my flag.

But after a volley of flame TGs, I have decided to create an original Confederate Flag for my nation. Just to avoid the unwanted attention it can bring on NS. But I still fly it in my room and yard.

But I like my new flag anyways.

But back on topic, it can be. But I dont use it in an offensive way. And most do not. A few idiots hijack it and bring it a bad rep. And we all have to deal with it.

[Ausira]

States don't have rights, they have duties and responsibilities towards their citizenry, the citizens know their own self interest better than the state does, the state will probably act dickish and towards the interests of the people at the top that run the state, doesn't mean the state is very justified in doing so.

For a modern example, just look at Kosovo and Serbia.

Remove kebab from premises.

No, but... it really should be legal, but... it's just like the Nazi flag. It was used in a war as a representative country, and it is frowned upon because... well, they lost, and they found out all the 'atrocities' that those people did. Confederates (The people that made the flag) had enslaved and murdered African Americans. Hitler had enslaved (Ghettos, those who could work were forced to labor) and murdered Jews.

It is wrong, yes, but it's simply freedom of expressing your rights. Then again, America isn't what it was on the Freedom talk. Modern day times? Unacceptable, but... It also is a "Dukes of Hazzard" flag, in a way of getting out of the Confederate talk.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

For a modern example, just look at Kosovo and Serbia.

Remove kebab from premises.

No, but... it really should be legal, but... it's just like the Nazi flag. It was used in a war as a representative country, and it is frowned upon because... well, they lost, and they found out all the 'atrocities' that those people did. Confederates (The people that made the flag) had enslaved and murdered African Americans. Hitler had enslaved (Ghettos, those who could work were forced to labor) and murdered Jews.

It is wrong, yes, but it's simply freedom of expressing your rights. Then again, America isn't what it was on the Freedom talk. Modern day times? Unacceptable, but... It also is a "Dukes of Hazzard" flag, in a way of getting out of the Confederate talk.

You caught that and I realized it probably was a bad example due to the complexity of the situation.

However, it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. Everyone will have their own perceptions about the flag.

I honestly do not get offended by the Confederate Flag; I just think of it as something personal for the person who is raising it and I don't think much of it. Doesn't mean I don't have my historical perspective of it though.

[Mushet]

States don't have rights, they have duties and responsibilities towards their citizenry, the citizens know their own self interest better than the state does, the state will probably act dickish and towards the interests of the people at the top that run the state, doesn't mean the state is very justified in doing so.

The state's only justification is national unity and to maintain a sensible degree of cohesion and order to prevent any attempts at independence.

Yes, people have a right to secede, yes, people have a right to create their own independent countries with or without their motherland's permission. However, to say the government should stay out of it is basically denying the fact that the state is run by people, and as such said people will find any justification to keep said territory annexed if there is even the slightest interest in it. It doesn't matter whether the people of said territory want it or not, and they will have to fight for their independence.

There is a difference between what should happen and what is likley going to happen, hypothetically the state should stay out regardless of the interests of the people running the state if the people have unanimously decided it is in their best interest to leave the state, but the state is not likely to do so by a very wide margin, the people would most likely have to fight, but this is not a desirable outcome.

[Higgins and Brown]

Simple flow chart (in non-chart form):

1) Is anyone offended by x?

a) Yes --> x is offensive (go to 2)
b) No----> x is not offensive

2) Who is offended by it?

a) 1 weirdo --------------------------------------------------------> It is barely offensive, to the extent that it may as well not be.
b) A small group of sensitive followers of a fringe religion --> It is slightly offensive, don't wave it in their face or use it at their events - unless you want to offend.
c) A race of people ------------------------------------------------> It is pretty damn offensive, don't use it unless you take pride in offending other races, i.e. are a bit of a racist yourself.
d) A race of people and lots of people of your own race ------> I think the jury's in on this one. It's pretty offensive.

[Olthar]

It's offensive if people find it offensive, so in this case, yes it is.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Depends on whom you ask, I suppose.

Given how I don't live in the States, I sure as hell don't find it offensive or know anybody who would. Most people here probably don't even know what the Confederate flag looks like, and most likely have only a vague middle-school-textbook-level idea of what the Confederacy was, so if anyone here had the mind to march down the street waving one, that would get about as much reaction from my compatriots as someone waving the flag of Burkina Faso.

Personally, I quite like the design.

[Grinning Dragon]

No it isn't offensive.

[Freiheit Reich]

Why? It doesn't have any swear words or vulgar photos. It should be allowed just like the Nazi flag should be allowed.

Hopefully the USA doesn't ban flags like Germany, France, and Hungary did. Freedom of speech should be respected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80 ... Nazi_flags

[Magna Libero]

Offensive or not, doesn't matter. People should be allowed to express their concerns, whether they are being "backwards" or not.

[Union Of Canadorian Socialists Republic]

I added a poll.

[Novo Portugal]

Your sort of right, the US flag represents liberty to some and tyranny to others.
But can the same be said for the Nazi flag?
Or the Confederacy?

1st, please don't compare the Confederacy to Nazi Germany, just don't use it as a argument.
2nd not even the Nazi flag should be illegal. Many will find it offensive, but maybe Nazis find Israel's flag offensive, should any of them be illegal? No, in the US everyone has the right to express their ideas (no matter how absurd and stupid the idea might be), so it shouldn't be outlawed and i personaly do not find it offensive, others might, others might not, its life, deal with it...

[Novo Portugal]

Why? It doesn't have any swear words or vulgar photos. It should be allowed just like the Nazi flag should be allowed.

Hopefully the USA doesn't ban flags like Germany, France, and Hungary did. Freedom of speech should be respected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80 ... Nazi_flags

Israel allows the Nazi flag?

That is mindblowing...

[Freiheit Reich]

Why? It doesn't have any swear words or vulgar photos. It should be allowed just like the Nazi flag should be allowed.

Hopefully the USA doesn't ban flags like Germany, France, and Hungary did. Freedom of speech should be respected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80 ... Nazi_flags

Israel allows the Nazi flag?

That is mindblowing...

Why not, it is a piece of cloth just like the T-shirt I am wearing.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Why? It doesn't have any swear words or vulgar photos. It should be allowed just like the Nazi flag should be allowed.

Hopefully the USA doesn't ban flags like Germany, France, and Hungary did. Freedom of speech should be respected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80 ... Nazi_flags

Israel allows the Nazi flag?

That is mindblowing...

It isn't that mindblowing.

Some of us also like to reenact certain events, and to show these items to people.

I know that if I was a history teacher, I would teach a lesson about Nazi Germany with the first thing exposed being the Nazi flag and asking my students questions about the flag before going into the actual lesson.

[Scholencia]

The Confederate Flag: A symbol of independence and slavery, freedom and bigotry. To some Americans, the Confederate flag details the pride of the south, it is the very symbol of a rebellion against the oppressors. To others, the flag is a wicked representation of the evils of slavery, and is a symbol of bigotry.

What is your viewpoint on the Confederate flag, and its legality in the states?

In case of banning the Confederate flag people should ban the US flag as well because the Union was also trading with slavery and had no intention to abolished it until the Civil war started.

[Ozzy]

The Rebels lost the war, I wouldn't find it at least bit offensive.

I was about to say something mean about The Southern States, until I remembered 'Stonewall' Jackson.

[The Emerald Dawn]

The Confederate Flag: A symbol of independence and slavery, freedom and bigotry. To some Americans, the Confederate flag details the pride of the south, it is the very symbol of a rebellion against the oppressors. To others, the flag is a wicked representation of the evils of slavery, and is a symbol of bigotry.

What is your viewpoint on the Confederate flag, and its legality in the states?

In case of banning the Confederate flag people should ban the US flag as well because the Union was also trading with slavery and had no intention to abolished it until the Civil war started.

That's not even remotely accurate.

[Microsol]

The Confederate Flag: A symbol of independence and slavery, freedom and bigotry.

More like:
The Confederate Flag: A symbol of the Confederate.

[MYAWESOMENESS]

In case of banning the Confederate flag people should ban the US flag as well because the Union was also trading with slavery and had no intention to abolished it until the Civil war started.

That's not even remotely accurate.

Actually it is accurate, all the way up to when Lincoln became president.
And I'm from the south and I have confederate flags all in my room so i don't find it to be offensive at all.

[The Emerald Dawn]

That's not even remotely accurate.

Actually it is accurate, all the way up to when Lincoln became president.
And I'm from the south and I have confederate flags all in my room so i don't find it to be offensive at all.

1827

The state of New York abolishes slavery.