Could Hitler win WWII IF... he had divine foresight...

[Avenio]

Hey, don't pin your scenario's holes on me. I just filled in the blanks with as much rational extrapolation as I could.

Nope, you were just overstepping your jurisdiction by trying to change what the OP was saying when you had zero authority to do so.

I didn't 'change what the OP said' at all, I just worked outwards from the scenario that you provided. Is Jesus descending from heaven with an army of angels in SS uniforms and Holy Lugers really more ridiculous than God poofing a history textbook onto Hitler's desk?

[Northwest Slobovia]

Wouldn't have been enough considering Napoleon didn't have machine guns, tanks, bombers, and fighter planes.

Indeed. Napoleon only had to worry about food and dry gunpowder.
Hitler also had to worry about heavy-industry supplies and oil.

You've summed up the German problem excellently: Hitler was worrying about heavy industry and oil. Not the excellent OKW General Staff, not Speer, his industry minister, not anybody who had the expertise to actually do decent job at it. A megalomaniac politician was micromanaging Germany's technical and military decisions.

Now, if Rommel had had the same history book land in his lap, Germany might have won.

Step 1: Assassinate Hitler
Step 2: Develop rational war plan in accordance with Germany's strengths and weaknesses and those of its (potential) enemies

I can think of a whole lotta variations on Step 2 and whatever comes next...

[United Tiberia]

Thanks to Stalin, the Red Army only had size.
He'd killed all the officers who understood tactics and strategy, especially the thinking behind Soviet Deep Battle, a revolutionary all-arms doctrine that introduced an "Operational" level of organisation.

Size is really all you need when you have absolutely no regard for the lives of your soldiers, sending them into battle as massive, unstoppable, suicide bulldozers. Add an enemy that's freezing to death just trying to get near your lines, and the Soviets win.

"suicide bulldozers" ....great name for a band if you ask me

[Solaray]

Size is really all you need when you have absolutely no regard for the lives of your soldiers, sending them into battle as massive, unstoppable, suicide bulldozers. Add an enemy that's freezing to death just trying to get near your lines, and the Soviets win.

"suicide bulldozers" ....great name for a band if you ask me

It'd be so metal it's scary.

[Souseiseki]

Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact, not a mutual defence pact.
In fact, the pact kept Russia out of war in Europe.

Yes, but Russia and Germany were good allies, and Russia would've been more than willing to join the war. How do you think Germany got their tanks? From the Russians!

they were good allies, up until one invaded the other because they sincerely deceived they were subhuman and deserved to be wiped out and that they were evil and ruining the world *debbie downer noise*

[New Carloso]

Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact, not a mutual defence pact.
In fact, the pact kept Russia out of war in Europe.

Yes, but Russia and Germany were good allies, and Russia would've been more than willing to join the war. How do you think Germany got their tanks? From the Russians!

No. From their production lines in Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin, Heidelberg, Dresden and any other city with a Bosch or Siemens factory.

[Dangelia]

Indeed. Napoleon only had to worry about food and dry gunpowder.
Hitler also had to worry about heavy-industry supplies and oil.

You've summed up the German problem excellently: Hitler was worrying about heavy industry and oil. Not the excellent OKW General Staff, not Speer, his industry minister, not anybody who had the expertise to actually do decent job at it. A megalomania politician was micromanaging Germany's technical and military decisions.

Now, if Rommel had had the same history book land in his lap, Germany might have won.

Step 1: Assassinate Hitler
Step 2: Develop rational war plan in accordance with Germany's strengths and weaknesses and those of its (potential) enemies

I can think of a whole lotta variations on Step 2 and whatever comes next...

*Don't invade Russia
*Invade France
*Invade Britain in a joint move with the Soviets
*Then attack Greece

[Benuty]

You've summed up the German problem excellently: Hitler was worrying about heavy industry and oil. Not the excellent OKW General Staff, not Speer, his industry minister, not anybody who had the expertise to actually do decent job at it. A megalomania politician was micromanaging Germany's technical and military decisions.

Now, if Rommel had had the same history book land in his lap, Germany might have won.

Step 1: Assassinate Hitler
Step 2: Develop rational war plan in accordance with Germany's strengths and weaknesses and those of its (potential) enemies

I can think of a whole lotta variations on Step 2 and whatever comes next...

*Don't invade Russia
*Invade France
*Invade Britain in a joint move with the Soviets
*Then attack Greece

Please do not tell me you actually think the French stopped fighting the Germans even after the Government surrendered?

[DarKgeorgia]

NOW That i look at it makes sense

Everything happens as in the original timeline... however, within days AFTER the launching of Operation Barbarossa Hitler, in a dream, gets a vision from God telling him that when he wakes up he will find a book warning him about his impending doom if he does not ''change his ways.''

Hitler wakes up from this vivid dream and on his table was a copy of the American Pageant US History textbook. He has it translated and finds that there are several chapters in there about what happened in ''World War II.'' He learns in the general language of the book, that there is this narrative where he will invade Russia, lose at Stalingrad, Japan will launch some kind of Pearl Harbor nonsense, D-Day will happen etc

This is a general history textbook so it only covers the big events, nothing in minute details.

Now the question is... what happens at this point?

Does Hitler dismiss the textbook as being some kind of a prank (despite the dream) and proceed to fight the war as he did in OTL and still lose?

Does he take some of the book seriously, treat it as a divine map to the future, and do things differently from this point onward (change his diplomatic strategy, fight different battles in Russia etc)? This is the more interesting scenario.

Keep in mind that he's already invaded Russia but the rest of it hasn't happened yet...

Could he change the outcome of history and win WWII or at least get some kind of peace in his favor?

Keep in mind that this is Hitler we are dealing (he can be awfully stubborn and sometimes quite stupid). What happens now?

Speculate on how history may play out differently...

[Dangelia]

Yes, but Russia and Germany were good allies, and Russia would've been more than willing to join the war. How do you think Germany got their tanks? From the Russians!

No. From their production lines in Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin, Heidelberg and Dresden.

They may have made the parts for the tanks there, but the tanks were created and tested in Kazakhstan. Remember, because of the Treaty of Versailles, Germany wasn't allowed to expand their army, artillery, tanks, navy, etc. The Russians provided them a loophole. Plus, Kazakhstan was a very secretive location.

[Ruridova]

Could we please stop talking about Hitler and WW2 and talk about some other leader during some other war in some other country?

[New Carloso]

*Don't invade Russia
*Invade France
*Invade Britain in a joint move with the Soviets
*Then attack Greece

Please do not tell me you actually think the French stopped fighting the Germans even after the Government surrendered?

La Resistance!

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact, not a mutual defence pact.
In fact, the pact kept Russia out of war in Europe.

Yes, but Russia and Germany were good allies,

Nope. They were just out for themselves - both sides would have comfortably admitted that at the time and in retrospect. They were never formal or informal allies.

and Russia would've been more than willing to join the war.

Not quite, for reasons above.

How do you think Germany got their tanks? From the Russians!

Objectively false.
They ran a tank training school together in the '20s, but that got shut down fairly quickly. All German tanks used in WW2 were produced later.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

No. From their production lines in Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin, Heidelberg and Dresden.

They may have made the parts for the tanks there, but the tanks were created and tested in Kazakhstan.

Untrue.
The school was in Kazan, not Kazahkstan - and all the testing there was done decades before WW2 even started.
Some preliminary test work for panzers was done there, but all actual production was done in Germany and much later, after the school had been shut down.

[Imperializt Russia]

Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact, not a mutual defence pact.
In fact, the pact kept Russia out of war in Europe.

Yes, but Russia and Germany were good allies, and Russia would've been more than willing to join the war. How do you think Germany got their tanks? From the Russians!

...
No, the Germans got their tanks from Germany. And technically Czechoslovakia.

The Russians surprised the Germans at Barbarossa with the worryingly capable T-34.

[Shofercia]

No, he wouldn't. Here's the thing: as the Great Patriotic War went on, the Red Army became progressively better, while, prior to 1944, Nazis stagnated, and after, got the shit kicked out of them. If Nazis weren't to be stopped at Stalingrad, they'd be stopped elsewhere. The Great Patriotic War was the most important Front of WWII, and you cannot win a war, without winning the most important Front.

[New Carloso]

No, he wouldn't. Here's the thing: as the Great Patriotic War went on, the Red Army became progressively better, while, prior to 1944, Nazis stagnated, and after, got the shit kicked out of them. If Nazis weren't to be stopped at Stalingrad, they'd be stopped elsewhere. The Great Patriotic War was the most important Front of WWII, and you cannot win a war, without winning the most important Front.

Well France kind of tumbled through the hundred years war. England won most battles but in the end France won the war.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

The Great Patriotic War was the most important Front of WWII, and you cannot win a war, without winning the most important Front.

Now here's where I disagree with you.
WW2 in Europe was such a wide-ranging thing that you can't say that one front was the "most important" with any reasoning other than national chauvinism, really. The air war defeated and destroyed the Luftwaffe, then proceeded to dismantle German industry. The naval war allowed supplies to get to Britain and Russia unhindered. The war in the West drew the Germans between two poles that they couldn't possibly both defend. The Eastern front tied down the bulk of the German Army.
If any ONE of these fronts failed decisively - had the U-Boats triumphed, had the bombing campaign been stopped, had D-Day or Salerno never happened, or had Russia crumbled, then there would have been massive knock-on repercussions down the line in all sectors. They were all important in ways that defy "well, ours was more important" - all of them interlocked in such ways that they were almost all of equal importance.

[Shofercia]

The Great Patriotic War was the most important Front of WWII, and you cannot win a war, without winning the most important Front.

Now here's where I disagree with you.
WW2 in Europe was such a wide-ranging thing that you can't say that one front was the "most important" with any reasoning other than national chauvinism at stake. The air war defeated and destroyed the Luftwaffe, then proceeded to dismantle German industry. The naval war allowed supplies to get to Britain and Russia unhindered. The war in the West drew the Germans between two poles that they couldn't possibly both defend. The Eastern front tied down the bulk of the German Army.
If any ONE of these fronts failed decisively - had the U-Boats triumphed, had the bombing campaign been stopped, had D-Day or Salerno never happened, or had Russia crumbled, then there would have been massive knock-on repercussions down the line in all sectors. They were all important in ways that defy "well, ours was more important" - all of them interlocked in such ways that they were almost all of equal importance.

Actually, I can, since over 70% of fighting occurred on that Front. You're welcome to read Col. David Glantz to get a confirmation about my statement.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Now here's where I disagree with you.
WW2 in Europe was such a wide-ranging thing that you can't say that one front was the "most important" with any reasoning other than national chauvinism at stake. The air war defeated and destroyed the Luftwaffe, then proceeded to dismantle German industry. The naval war allowed supplies to get to Britain and Russia unhindered. The war in the West drew the Germans between two poles that they couldn't possibly both defend. The Eastern front tied down the bulk of the German Army.
If any ONE of these fronts failed decisively - had the U-Boats triumphed, had the bombing campaign been stopped, had D-Day or Salerno never happened, or had Russia crumbled, then there would have been massive knock-on repercussions down the line in all sectors. They were all important in ways that defy "well, ours was more important" - all of them interlocked in such ways that they were almost all of equal importance.

Actually, I can, since over 70% of fighting occurred on that Front. You're welcome to read Col. David Glantz to get a confirmation about my statement.

I don't think you read what I posted.

[Luziyca]

The real question is how did the fucking textbook get in the past? Was it through a technology that so many yearn to go back in time to kill Hitler?

[The Tiger Kingdom]

The real question is how did the fucking textbook get in the past? Was it through a technology that so many yearn to go back in time to kill Hitler?

Surely somebody could have provided a better source for Hitler to win with than the canker on the ass of historical scholarship that is The American Pageant.

[The Nihilistic view]

Knowing the mindset of Hitler and his character the chances are he would just dismiss it and claim a disloyal general placed it on his desk. The general accused would then commit suicide a la Rommel style to "save their honor". War continues as it did.

Then early 1943 after Stalingrad/Kursk Hitler realises it was not a joke, accuses another general of disloyalty for telling him before that the first general planted the book to trick him. That general then shoots himself but it's to late to do anything about it, America are already in the war and Russia are on the offensive.

Late 1944 is when it will get interesting, what will the allies do? Hitler knows they will assault Normandy, it's really heavily defended and they lose. Many say Hitler wanted to sue for peace in the west anyway in late 44 so now does he have the bargaining power to get it? More to the point with Churchill saying we should continue the war and fight the Russians and with Hitler able to show then what will happen and the Commies plan will the west join forces to fight Stalin? Or will they sit back and let them annex the whole of continental Europe?

[God Kefka]

Nope, you were just overstepping your jurisdiction by trying to change what the OP was saying when you had zero authority to do so.

I didn't 'change what the OP said' at all, I just worked outwards from the scenario that you provided. Is Jesus descending from heaven with an army of angels in SS uniforms and Holy Lugers really more ridiculous than God poofing a history textbook onto Hitler's desk?

Where in the OP is this mentioned or necessarily implied?

Hint: It's not. Nice try.

[Luziyca]

The real question is how did the fucking textbook get in the past? Was it through a technology that so many yearn to go back in time to kill Hitler?

Surely somebody could have provided a better source for Hitler to win with than the canker on the ass of historical scholarship that is The American Pageant.

Like today's edition of the Daily Mail?