GUN CONTROL!

[The Emerald Dawn]

Well, the peer reviewed article is a great start. Why didn't you post that first?

Also, it doesn't prove your point about giving a gun to everyone reducing crime.

So while a good source for a different argument, it's a shit source for this one.

But it does show that gun control DOESN'T WORK.

No, it shows that banning guns doesn't work.

Banning guns != gun control.

Again, that wasn't what you said, it's not what we're arguing.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Two things:

If we put more work into diagnosing people who apply for weapons instead of taking all weapons away, people will be safer.

Why not do both? Because that'd bring the murder rate down by more, surely.

If every adult was issued a handgun, how far do you think any of those shooters would have gotten?

Mandatory possession of a handgun does not supply the conviction or ability to use it as a freebie. I don't fancy the idea of getting caught in a crossfire because some swinging dick thinks he's got John Wayne's arm instead of Michael J Fox's. Or the other way, which is where some schmuck pulls his gun, hesitates, and gets mown down by some other fucker who doesn't know who the original shooter was.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Georgi ... story.html

http://www.straight.com/blogra/367671/g ... -mandatory

Both of those links are about a town in Georgia where gun ownership was made mandatory for everyone except felons and those who were mentally ill. Guess what hasn't happened? The utterly absurd BS you just spouted.

[Novakaira]

But it does show that gun control DOESN'T WORK.

No, it shows that banning guns doesn't work.

Banning guns != gun control.

Again, that wasn't what you said, it's not what we're arguing.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Alright, I will admit that issuing every American a handgun is extreme, but I stand by it.
I will admit it is opinionated and there is a good chance it won't work.

But if banning firearms doesn't reduce suicide and murder, what makes you think reducing the availability of firearms will?

[The Emerald Dawn]

Two things:


Why not do both? Because that'd bring the murder rate down by more, surely.


Mandatory possession of a handgun does not supply the conviction or ability to use it as a freebie. I don't fancy the idea of getting caught in a crossfire because some swinging dick thinks he's got John Wayne's arm instead of Michael J Fox's. Or the other way, which is where some schmuck pulls his gun, hesitates, and gets mown down by some other fucker who doesn't know who the original shooter was.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Georgi ... story.html

http://www.straight.com/blogra/367671/g ... -mandatory

Both of those links are about a town in Georgia where gun ownership was made mandatory for everyone except felons and those who were mentally ill. Guess what hasn't happened? The utterly absurd BS you just spouted.

Nelson, GA. Population: 1,314.

[Dyakovo]

Nothing in what you just typed was a source.

http://nation.time.com/2013/09/17/navy- ... -problems/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... m/1781145/
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/t ... ealth-law/

If you are going to be remotely open-minded about this, I suggest you read this book. I am sure you can find a PDF somewhere.
The author gives hard evidence and make a lot of good points.
http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Cr ... 0226493660
But I assume you have already made up your mind about this issue and refuse to change.
It'd be good to note I used to be for more gun control until I had a few thorough discussions and did more reading about mental health issues.

No-one arguing for gun control is saying that mental health is not an issue, so your first three links are essentially useless. As to your last link, a link to buy a book is not a valid source.

[The Emerald Dawn]

No, it shows that banning guns doesn't work.

Banning guns != gun control.

Again, that wasn't what you said, it's not what we're arguing.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Alright, I will admit that issuing every American a handgun is extreme, but I stand by it.
I will admit it is opinionated and there is a good chance it won't work.

But if banning firearms doesn't reduce suicide and murder, what makes you think reducing the availability of firearms will?

Because better enforcement of existing gun control laws, and better funding of the organizations responsible for doing so, will mean faster tracking of people like the Washington Navy Yard shooter who should not have had the ability to purchase the weapons he did.

Again, Gun Control is not supposed to be about banning, or taking away people's guns. It's about making sure that the people who shouldn't have them don't. It is a puzzle piece, not the entire picture itself.

The idiots on both sides of this argument are attempting to use soundbites to debate a subject far too nuanced for such asinine tactics.

[Dyakovo]

Three links to news agencies speaking about mental health, and a book written by an individual who has his studies funded by the NRA.

Not really great sources, mate.

What do I need to post in order for it to be a "good" source?

Here is a poll suggesting Americans blame the mental health systemfor most gun violence.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/164507/ameri ... lence.aspx

HOW ABOUT A STUDY BY HARVARD THAT SUGGEST BANNING GUNS WON'T REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/org ... online.pdf
SUMMARY:
http://www.smallgovtimes.com/article/ha ... roductive/

Gun control =/= gun ban.

[Novakaira]

Alright, I will admit that issuing every American a handgun is extreme, but I stand by it.
I will admit it is opinionated and there is a good chance it won't work.

But if banning firearms doesn't reduce suicide and murder, what makes you think reducing the availability of firearms will?

Because better enforcement of existing gun control laws, and better funding of the organizations responsible for doing so, will mean faster tracking of people like the Washington Navy Yard shooter who should not have had the ability to purchase the weapons he did.

Again, Gun Control is not supposed to be about banning, or taking away people's guns. It's about making sure that the people who shouldn't have them don't. It is a puzzle piece, not the entire picture itself.

The idiots on both sides of this argument are attempting to use soundbites to debate a subject far too nuanced for such asinine tactics.

I believe the navy yard shooter was deemed unfit for military duty, but was approved to buy a shotgun.
If by gun control, you (general you) mean better background checking and a longer waiting period (I'd go for two months), then I agree with you.
But if by gun control you (once again, general you) mean restricting the guns we can buy, then I disagree.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What do I need to post in order for it to be a "good" source?

Here is a poll suggesting Americans blame the mental health systemfor most gun violence.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/164507/ameri ... lence.aspx

HOW ABOUT A STUDY BY HARVARD THAT SUGGEST BANNING GUNS WON'T REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/org ... online.pdf
SUMMARY:
http://www.smallgovtimes.com/article/ha ... roductive/

Gun control =/= gun ban.

The UK and Australia disagree, either way if we simply put a larger emphasis on mental health and let things like that be checked by the background check system I believe most of our mass shootings would stop. It also doesn't really make sense to try and put even more gun control in place when most of our firearm homicides are gang member A shooting gang member B, and they will get guns anyways.

[Novakaira]

Gun control =/= gun ban.

The UK and Australia disagree, either way if we simply put a larger emphasis on mental health and let things like that be checked by the background check system I believe most of our mass shootings would stop. It also doesn't really make sense to try and put even more gun control in place when most of our firearm homicides are gang member A shooting gang member B, and they will get guns anyways.

/agree

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Gun control =/= gun ban.

The UK and Australia disagree, either way if we simply put a larger emphasis on mental health and let things like that be checked by the background check system I believe most of our mass shootings would stop. It also doesn't really make sense to try and put even more gun control in place when most of our firearm homicides are gang member A shooting gang member B, and they will get guns anyways.

Please source your claim that guns in the UK are banned. Thanks.

[Occupied Deutschland]

What do I need to post in order for it to be a "good" source?

Here is a poll suggesting Americans blame the mental health systemfor most gun violence.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/164507/ameri ... lence.aspx

HOW ABOUT A STUDY BY HARVARD THAT SUGGEST BANNING GUNS WON'T REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/org ... online.pdf
SUMMARY:
http://www.smallgovtimes.com/article/ha ... roductive/

Gun control =/= gun ban.

Not necessarily perhaps.
But the phrase has been used by those pushing bills which ban guns.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Gun control =/= gun ban.

Not necessarily perhaps.
But the phrase has been used by those pushing bills which ban guns.

Stupidly. Wrongly. And nobody here that should be taken seriously is doing so.

[The High Guardians]

Gun nutsalike. The U.K banned pistols in the 80's after a mass school shooting. Your challenge is to find another mass shooting in the U.K since (20 plus victims) AND GO.

[Dyakovo]

Well, the peer reviewed article is a great start. Why didn't you post that first?

Also, it doesn't prove your point about giving a gun to everyone reducing crime.

So while a good source for a different argument, it's a shit source for this one.

But it does show that gun control DOESN'T WORK.

No, it doesn't.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Gun nutsalike. The U.K banned pistols in the 80's after a mass school shooting. Your challenge is to find another mass shooting in the U.K since (20 plus victims) AND GO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

[Sensible Divinities]

I think the Government Printing Office would immediately send you a copy of the code if they read your post, with lots of sections highlighted.

^mhm.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Damn, less than a minute.

I'm good.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Gun nutsalike. The U.K banned pistols in the 80's after a mass school shooting. Your challenge is to find another mass shooting in the U.K since (20 plus victims) AND GO.

No. Pistols are not banned in the UK.

Jesus fucking christ where the fuck do you people get your information from?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Not necessarily perhaps.
But the phrase has been used by those pushing bills which ban guns.

Stupidly. Wrongly. And nobody here that should be taken seriously is doing so.

Unfortunately, folks here aren't all that important compared to Congressmen.

Besides which, facilitating many forms of tamer 'gun control' proposed here (registry's are popular) opens up another avenue of abuse as it will only serve to encourage those pushing such stupid bills.

[Dyakovo]

Gun control =/= gun ban.

The UK and Australia disagree, either way if we simply put a larger emphasis on mental health and let things like that be checked by the background check system I believe most of our mass shootings would stop. It also doesn't really make sense to try and put even more gun control in place when most of our firearm homicides are gang member A shooting gang member B, and they will get guns anyways.

Guns are not banned in either the UK or Australia, so I'm not sure what you mean by the underlined.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Legalised, but regulated, assuming you have a mature society.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Stupidly. Wrongly. And nobody here that should be taken seriously is doing so.

Unfortunately, folks here aren't all that important compared to Congressmen.

Besides which, facilitating many forms of tamer 'gun control' proposed here (registry's are popular) opens up another avenue of abuse as it will only serve to encourage those pushing such stupid bills.

I quite agree it's unfortunate.

However, idiot politicians aren't the problem, at its root. The problem is the idiot voters who put idiot politicians in place, and the idiot system by which election and re-election based on a single indicator is used.

[The High Guardians]

Gun nutsalike. The U.K banned pistols in the 80's after a mass school shooting. Your challenge is to find another mass shooting in the U.K since (20 plus victims) AND GO.

No. Pistols are not banned in the UK.

Jesus fucking christ where the fuck do you people get your information from?

I'm a law student my friend, I know what types of weapons are banned and within a certain area, pistols are banned. Please see below the exceptions.


Antique and muzzle-loading black-powder guns
Guns of historic interest whose ammunition is no longer available ("Section 7.1" weapons)
Guns of historic interest with current calibres ("Section 7.3" weapons)
Air pistols
Guns which fall outside the Home Office definition of "handguns".
Pistols used by hunters for humane despatch, limited to two shot capacity.
Pistols for use as personal protection weapons, mainly in Northern Ireland by retired police or prison officers, but also prominent figures who were considered at risk.

[Novakaira]

I feel like we could all agree that issues such as gun control, religion, abortion, and the like shouldn't be argued so often on this site.
It seems like we all have different beliefs for different reasons.

@Emerald Dawn
@Dyakovo

I respect your opinions. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone here (for the most part) is pretty intelligent.
I am going to stop arguing this point because I don't think it's possible for either side to convince the other.
And the people on the fence seem to like being on the fence, so it's not a good idea to try and change that.

I could be wrong.
You could be wrong.
We could all be wrong.

Honestly, I think gun control works in some places and doesn't in others. Hell, it could definitely be a cultural programming that causes that.
Either way, I am done arguing back and forth here. Thanks for the debate, Emerald.