Boycott of foreign goods.

[Katganistan]

Fixed

Wow. How pathetic. Really. How pathetic. Really, really pathetic. It's like... you're Carrot Top. Blind. And haven't learnt Braille. So you can't read the thread. And follow along in the discussion. So you can't see how your "fixed" comment is... so... indescribably... not only irrelevant to a USA poster claiming those cars to be luxury brands and European posters showing that they are not... but, that you actually think that could ever, anywhere in light of that even be a "come back"? Please, slap your 1st grade teacher for me. Please do. She/he has done you a great disservice in literacy.

Fass, there is a difference between attacking the argument and attacking the poster.
You have attacked the poster.
*** Warned for flamebaiting. ***

[Fassitude]

Fass, there is a difference between attacking the argument and attacking the poster.
You have attacked the poster.
*** Warned for flamebaiting. ***

Of course I attacked the poster. The poster obviously didn't read before he did what is supposed to be the no-no of editing so as to misrepresent what someone else wrote. There's nothing else to attack other than the poster then (but that would require understanding the context of the thread, and, well, that's a bit much to expect it would seem nowadays). If you've a better way to attack someone for not reading before rewriting someone else's post, I'm glad to hear it if not just for sheer amusement value.

Edit: By the by, that new "style" you have for you warnings? Tack-o-rama, and not very in line with the no-gawdy posts rule. Perhaps a non-highlighted version could be a bit more tasteful and dignified? Maybe a not so gharish colour, too. I know you people need help with colour coordination.

[Sibirsky]

Thank the unions for that. They cut costs on materials because they pay 30-40% more for labor.

No corporation ever got union issues that didn't deserve them. Unions are formed in response to management being apathetic towards employee grievances and concerns. Just as happy, contended citizens do not overthrow their governments in revolutions, happy, contented employees do not unionize, as there is no reason to do so. Almost every union that exists was originally formed in response to abuse. Do many of them grow greedy after essentially winning? Sure. But corporations that suffer from having to deal with them only have their own myopic managemen (often occurring decades ago) to blame.

Also, you'd do best to ignore Fass. He's just a trolling cunt who likes to insult everyone and everything that has any association with the USA.

I am not debating whether they deserved the unions or not. Just that costs are higher. And the bulk of the costs (healthcare for current and former employees, and families, even survivors are self inflicted). The unions demanded higher wages and a slight increase in health coverage or, a slight increase in pay, with a substantial increase in health coverage. Almost uniformly Detroit offered the health coverage. Why? Those costs didn't have to be paid today. By the time they did the CEO would have been gone with his golden parachute. The costs ballooned, causing massive losses.

[Callisdrun]

Thank the unions for that. They cut costs on materials because they pay 30-40% more for labor.

No corporation ever got union issues that didn't deserve them. Unions are formed in response to management being apathetic towards employee grievances and concerns. Just as happy, contended citizens do not overthrow their governments in revolutions, happy, contented employees do not unionize, as there is no reason to do so. Almost every union that exists was originally formed in response to abuse. Do many of them grow greedy after essentially winning? Sure. But corporations that suffer from having to deal with them only have their own myopic managemen (often occurring decades ago) to blame.

Also, you'd do best to ignore Fass. He's just a trolling cunt who likes to insult everyone and everything that has any association with the USA.

I am not debating whether they deserved the unions or not. Just that costs are higher. And the bulk of the costs (healthcare for current and former employees, and families, even survivors are self inflicted). The unions demanded higher wages and a slight increase in health coverage or, a slight increase in pay, with a substantial increase in health coverage. Almost uniformly Detroit offered the health coverage. Why? Those costs didn't have to be paid today. By the time they did the CEO would have been gone with his golden parachute. The costs ballooned, causing massive losses.

Just as long as you acknowledge that it was management's fault that they got the unions in the first place, more likely than not.

[Sibirsky]

Thank the unions for that. They cut costs on materials because they pay 30-40% more for labor.

No corporation ever got union issues that didn't deserve them. Unions are formed in response to management being apathetic towards employee grievances and concerns. Just as happy, contended citizens do not overthrow their governments in revolutions, happy, contented employees do not unionize, as there is no reason to do so. Almost every union that exists was originally formed in response to abuse. Do many of them grow greedy after essentially winning? Sure. But corporations that suffer from having to deal with them only have their own myopic managemen (often occurring decades ago) to blame.

Also, you'd do best to ignore Fass. He's just a trolling cunt who likes to insult everyone and everything that has any association with the USA.

I am not debating whether they deserved the unions or not. Just that costs are higher. And the bulk of the costs (healthcare for current and former employees, and families, even survivors are self inflicted). The unions demanded higher wages and a slight increase in health coverage or, a slight increase in pay, with a substantial increase in health coverage. Almost uniformly Detroit offered the health coverage. Why? Those costs didn't have to be paid today. By the time they did the CEO would have been gone with his golden parachute. The costs ballooned, causing massive losses.

Just as long as you acknowledge that it was management's fault that they got the unions in the first place, more likely than not.

Yes. And managements fault with the way they dealt with the unions after they got them.

[Katganistan]

Would that include the lead paint on children's toys and the melamine in pet foods? Just asking.

Could you read the thread before posting? Kthnx. And yes, even in comparison with the lead and melamine USA products have a poor reputation, as has been posted already. So, that reading. You should do it.

I did read the thread. That seems to be your criticism of everyone who disagrees with you, Fass -- that they didn't read or that they are uneducated or somehow inferior to your intellect.

Saying it all day long does not make it true.

[Katganistan]

Thank the unions for that. They cut costs on materials because they pay 30-40% more for labor.

No corporation ever got union issues that didn't deserve them. Unions are formed in response to management being apathetic towards employee grievances and concerns. Just as happy, contended citizens do not overthrow their governments in revolutions, happy, contented employees do not unionize, as there is no reason to do so. Almost every union that exists was originally formed in response to abuse. Do many of them grow greedy after essentially winning? Sure. But corporations that suffer from having to deal with them only have their own myopic managemen (often occurring decades ago) to blame.

Also, you'd do best to ignore Fass. He's just a trolling cunt who likes to insult everyone and everything that has any association with the USA.

And for you, a *** warning for flaming. ***

[Callisdrun]

Thank the unions for that. They cut costs on materials because they pay 30-40% more for labor.

No corporation ever got union issues that didn't deserve them. Unions are formed in response to management being apathetic towards employee grievances and concerns. Just as happy, contended citizens do not overthrow their governments in revolutions, happy, contented employees do not unionize, as there is no reason to do so. Almost every union that exists was originally formed in response to abuse. Do many of them grow greedy after essentially winning? Sure. But corporations that suffer from having to deal with them only have their own myopic managemen (often occurring decades ago) to blame.

Also, you'd do best to ignore Fass. He's just a trolling cunt who likes to insult everyone and everything that has any association with the USA.

And for you, a *** warning for flaming. ***

It's not libel if it's true. He is a trolling cuntwad, and always has been. Everyone knows that he trolls all the time. He's just an attention whore asswipe.

Can I have a one week ban?

[Fassitude]

I did read the thread.

And still decided to post something identical to something already posted and rebutted? Well...

That seems to be your criticism of everyone who disagrees with you, Fass -- that they didn't read or that they are uneducated or somehow inferior to your intellect.

... well, when someone posts a post identical to one already posted, and already rebutted, the most flattering conclusion one can draw is that they didn't read the thread to see that it had already been posted and rebutted. The not so flattering conclusion would be that you saw it and decided to post anyway just to post++, but that's not very likely in your case, and of the many things one can say about you, at least I don't harbour all too many unflattering ones to air. Sure, critique and disagreement with taste, but unflattering? Not many, no.

Saying it all day long does not make it true.

Reality does, though.

[Katganistan]

Fass, there is a difference between attacking the argument and attacking the poster.
You have attacked the poster.
*** Warned for flamebaiting. ***

Of course I attacked the poster. The poster obviously didn't read before he did what is supposed to be the no-no of editing so as to misrepresent what someone else wrote. There's nothing else to attack other than the poster then (but that would require understanding the context of the thread, and, well, that's a bit much to expect it would seem nowadays). If you've a better way to attack someone for not reading before rewriting someone else's post, I'm glad to hear it if not just for sheer amusement value.

Edit: By the by, that new "style" you have for you warnings? Tack-o-rama, and not very in line with the no-gawdy posts rule. Perhaps a non-highlighted version could be a bit more tasteful and dignified? Maybe a not so gharish colour, too. I know you people need help with colour coordination.

Obviously, there is some difficulty that you are having with 1) the rules of this site, which forbids one from flaming and flamebaiting other posters or 2) in realizing that yes, the rules do apply to you as well.

I don't believe for an instant that your comments about the warning code are anything other than an attempt to provoke "we people" (which includes Europeans and Oceanians into the mix with North Americans), but it was instituted precisely because posters complained they could not clearly see when they had been warned.

I will not stoop to insinuate that you don't understand the rules; clearly, since you DO understand them, and have a very obvious disdain for them that has stretched over multiple incarnations, I hope that you will, in fact, enjoy your three day break from this site.

[Fassitude]

It's not libel if it's true. He is a trolling cuntwad

Of course it's not true. For it to be true, you'd've had to say "asswad". Cunts, so not my bag, baby. For what it's worth, I don't find your invectives at all offensive or all that noteworthy, so I don't think they should even warn you, let alone ban you. As there's no victimising occurring, I don't think rule-infractions should be either, but as I said, "for what it's worth" is usually not a lot with stringent adherence to inflexible rule interpretation.

[Linker Niederrhein]

It's not libel if it's true. He is a trolling cuntwad, and always has been. Everyone knows that he trolls all the time. He's just an attention whore asswipe.

Trolling != throwing insults around. As a self-identified troll, I find it quite insulting to be lumped in with Fass.

[Callisdrun]

It's not libel if it's true. He is a trolling cuntwad, and always has been. Everyone knows that he trolls all the time. He's just an attention whore asswipe.

Trolling != throwing insults around. As a self-identified troll, I find it quite insulting to be lumped in with Fass.

Not all trolls are arrogant pricks like Fass is. Some are actually clever in that they can get a rise out of people without his condescending asshattery.

I do think he's a troll. I don't think he's a good one.

[Callisdrun]

I hope that you will, in fact, enjoy your three day break from this site.

I want one, too. But make it a week, please.

[Skibereen]

Is anyone else involved in this? For some time now, I've been refusing to purchase anything that has not been stamped with "Made in U.S.A." on the bottom. I absolutely refuse to support any corporation that does not put it's nation first and it's dollar second. I always check the barcode for the "Made in China" stamp, so I can put it back and find the american equivalent. This does mean, if you do not know, that I also boycott Ford Motor Company, Wal-Mart, and any other stores that refuse to stock American-made products.

I realize that American-Made products are dwindling because corporations run by useless bastards hire malaysian children for 15 cents a day to work in sweatshops 140 hours a week so they can sell me a $10 blender that falls apart in three months. Even so, I still have enough respect for the american working class to refuse to support Long-Wang and his family of 18 in the Peoples' Republic of China over the masses of unemployed people and people with ever lowering job security who exist down the street from me, in the United States of America.

What I am asking is, how many of you feel it imperative that you buy only products produced in the United States of America, whenever you are not being intentionally decieved about a product's origin?

Not me. Not at all.

[Katganistan]

Also, you'd do best to ignore Fass. He's just a trolling cunt who likes to insult everyone and everything that has any association with the USA.

And for you, a *** warning for flaming. ***

It's not libel if it's true. He is a trolling cuntwad, and always has been. Everyone knows that he trolls all the time. He's just an attention whore asswipe.

Can I have a one week ban?

It's not libel if it's true. He is a trolling cuntwad, and always has been. Everyone knows that he trolls all the time. He's just an attention whore asswipe.

Trolling != throwing insults around. As a self-identified troll, I find it quite insulting to be lumped in with Fass.

Not all trolls are arrogant pricks like Fass is. Some are actually clever in that they can get a rise out of people without his condescending asshattery.

I do think he's a troll. I don't think he's a good one.

I hope that you will, in fact, enjoy your three day break from this site.

I want one, too. But make it a week, please.

What Fassitude was doing was flamebaiting.

This is defined as follows:

Flamebait: Posts that are made with the aim of angering someone indirectly. Not outright flame, but still liable to bring angry replies. Flame baiting is a far more subtle and covert action; it is an underhanded tactic that is designed to provoke a response from another player. It's in the same context of trolling but with flamebaiting it's just the one person.

What you are doing is flaming. It not so coincidentally is on the same page of the rules as flamebaiting. It is defined as follows:

Flame: Expressing anger at someone in uncouth ways with OOC (out-of-character) comments (i.e. swearing, being obnoxious, threatening etc). It does to watch what you post IC (in-character) as well unless the other posters know you're not serious. You do not need to curse to be a flamer. Erudite slams while maintaining a veneer of politeness can also be considered flaming. Flaming in the forums should be reported in the Moderation forum, in the game itself, through Getting Help Page.

There also seems to be more than a tad of suicide-by-mod in your post, with which I will not indulge you. Simply walk away from the keyboard if you can't bear to be on this site any longer.

Since clearly, you need some time to think about this, have a two week break.

[Mikoyan-Guryevich]

Is anyone else involved in this? For some time now, I've been refusing to purchase anything that has not been stamped with "Made in U.S.A." on the bottom. I absolutely refuse to support any corporation that does not put it's nation first and it's dollar second. I always check the barcode for the "Made in China" stamp, so I can put it back and find the american equivalent. This does mean, if you do not know, that I also boycott Ford Motor Company, Wal-Mart, and any other stores that refuse to stock American-made products.

I realize that American-Made products are dwindling because corporations run by useless bastards hire malaysian children for 15 cents a day to work in sweatshops 140 hours a week so they can sell me a $10 blender that falls apart in three months. Even so, I still have enough respect for the american working class to refuse to support Long-Wang and his family of 18 in the Peoples' Republic of China over the masses of unemployed people and people with ever lowering job security who exist down the street from me, in the United States of America.

What I am asking is, how many of you feel it imperative that you buy only products produced in the United States of America, whenever you are not being intentionally decieved about a product's origin?

Why would you bother encouraging American companies to continue making sub-standard shit that nobody wants. If you want to see proof, look up Chrysler.

[Coffin-Breathe]

I wonder, why everybody seems to be so obsessed with cars, when the debate is about american products. Are cars the only measure, when it comes to quality, or are they simply the only thing, you´re proficient with ? I suppose, that States industries produces a lot more products than cars, and is able to export them as well as sell them national. Windows, or Hollywood-made films are US products too, and, far away from declaring them as "perfect", they sell great.
No way, US or European economy could compete with Chinese or other "sweat-shop" domiciling countries, when it comes to manufacture- and labour-intensive products, due to relatively high states of living-standard and usually high labour conditions and working people´s rights. Civilian rights and relative freedom, as well as advanced stages of social development come with a price to pay, and have to be maintained by those, who want to live by them.
Even if this means, that you have sometimes to buy your t-shirt for a twenty bucks rather than a mere two...and have to look carefully, where it´s produced, and if not only sold by an in-nation company, but made elsewhere to maximize profit.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Why would you bother encouraging American companies to continue making sub-standard shit that nobody wants. If you want to see proof, look up Chrysler.

I wouldn´t say, buy everything homemade, but if of similar quality, then prefer to support your own nation´s products.

[Newhatred]

I don't see what is so wrong with the idea. Patriotism is a good thing. Be proud of your country.

[Kobrania]

Read my sig.

[Skibereen]

I wonder, why everybody seems to be so obsessed with cars, when the debate is about american products. Are cars the only measure, when it comes to quality, or are they simply the only thing, you´re proficient with ? I suppose, that States industries produces a lot more products than cars, and is able to export them as well as sell them national. Windows, or Hollywood-made films are US products too, and, far away from declaring them as "perfect", they sell great.
No way, US or European economy could compete with Chinese or other "sweat-shop" domiciling countries, when it comes to manufacture- and labour-intensive products, due to relatively high states of living-standard and usually high labour conditions and working people´s rights. Civilian rights and relative freedom, as well as advanced stages of social development come with a price to pay, and have to be maintained by those, who want to live by them.
Even if this means, that you have sometimes to buy your t-shirt for a twenty bucks rather than a mere two...and have to look carefully, where it´s produced, and if not only sold by an in-nation company, but made elsewhere to maximize profit.

The largest single industry including all of its periphery was the US Auto Industry so realistically speaking if your going to support America by buying American nothing has a greater economic impact then cars. But sure I am positive a tooth brush helps out too.

However I am an American and I hold on to an American ideal, the most value for the least expense. American companies in my experience fail to deliver on that--the ones that do deliver get bought by foreign companies.
Lets look at some good old US brands:

Anheuser-Busch-- The King of Beers, Budweiser...foreign owned-Fucking Belgians.

CITGO--Yeah founded by the famous American oilman...the Venezuelan State Oil Company owns it.

Good Humor...you remember the Ice Cream man? HE STOLE YUR JOB! Its owned by Unilever(British and Dutch)...they also own Ben and Jerry's(thats right assholes) and Breyers.
French's Mustard goes great on the all american dog...to bad it isnt All American- Its BRITISH hahaha. Do you remember their motto by the way..."Nothing MORE American Then Frenchs"


How about something BIG, like your appliances--Frigidaire oh yeah baby, forget indianna your money is going to the Swedes.

Forget cars lets get around the old fashioned way--WIth My A-didas oh shit their German. Reeboks...German....ghetto ass Puma? GERMAN zi fecking Kruats haz our gearz.

I know IKNow, Land Mark--a famous land Mark...the Plaza Hotel New York city--was owned by the Saudi Royal Family --Allahu Ackbar!! Pass the Krystal--the Saudis sold it to wait for it...a fucking Israeli!!! They do agree on kicking our ass dont they.

OK, What about the Chrysler Building? Abu Dhabi in Da House owning a building my 3rd grader can spot.

Thirsty? How about some Caribou Coffee? Bahrain my nigger and yes the company is Sharia law compliant --and that isnt a joke.

Churches Chicken(Now some of you cracker asses might not of ever SEEN a churhes) Churches might be in the Hood--but if your woman you better wear you Hijab, because its another point for Bahrain and SHaria Law!!!

Trader Joes? GERMANS!!! No not trader joe...not him too...they got Aldis as well for all you poor people stupid enough to care about this.

7-11...you want a slurpee, if you do you need to learn to speak Hindu, but if want stock you better learn Nipponese, konichiwa bitches.

Holiday Inn...your smarter because you stayed in hotel owned by the same Brits who own Bass Ale--can a nigger get a Black and Tan! ROOM SERVICE!

Oh wait you didnt buy your gas at CITGO...Shell? Sorry its Dutch. Like all your dates you cheap bastard...just kidding.

Well here you must be out of gas by now use my phone to call for ride I have T-Mobile with that fine ass Catherine selling then minutes ...she is a German spy.

I know--a Classic American Company--Firestone...traded that shit to the Japanese for some PS3s and Bluray school girl porn.

Damn it they have everything--dirty foreigners(who we peddle our shit to over there) there must be something...wait I need to stop there is a toll road up ahead...son of bitch the Indiana State toll Road is owned by a Spanish and Australian conglomerate !!! They own the roads!!!

That must be a fluke...NO! They get all the profits from the Chicago skyway--and they dont even OWN it...they just leased it for the next century.

Toll HOuse cookies...the kids love em--bloody Swiss.

Almost forgot the Spanish own the PA turnpike as well...lol

All humor aside, everyone of those thing it is perfectly reasonable that most Americans would believe those things to certainly be made inthe USA(I bet I surprised you with a couple) the fact is the idea of "Buy American" is isolationist and protectionist and it is an economic policy for a country that isnt a super power. Tired Now...oh I bet you own a flag...chek the tag on it...night night.

[Moppelkatze]

I still have enough respect for the american working class to refuse to support Long-Wang and his family of 18 in the Peoples' Republic of China

Remember kids, the One Child Policy is an elaborate propaganda device which goes unimplimented in China's cities... yes...

Also, you're such a pleb -_-

[Ifreann]

When I buy something, my primary concern isn't "Will an Irish person get my money, at the end of the day?". I tend to prioritise things like "Can I afford this?", "How badly do I need/want it?", "Could I get something comparable for less?" higher than petty nationalism. If Irish companies want my money, they'll compete for it just like everyone else.

[Moppelkatze]

When I buy something, my primary concern isn't "Will an Irish person get my money, at the end of the day?". I tend to prioritise things like "Can I afford this?", "How badly do I need/want it?", "Could I get something comparable for less?" higher than petty nationalism. If Irish companies want my money, they'll compete for it just like everyone else.

Quite.