What is the Perfect Form of Government?

[Threlizdun]

But if you have the nation focused on war and the like the people won't argue about non important things like welfare and tobacco smokers. They will be focused on the war along with the government, so the people and the government won't be focusing on ruining each others life.

"Fuck everyone, let's get to killing" is your ideal world?

[Pandeeria]

But if you have the nation focused on war and the like the people won't argue about non important things like welfare and tobacco smokers. They will be focused on the war along with the government, so the people and the government won't be focusing on ruining each others life.

War ruins the lives of many countries and it's people. Look at nations such as Germany after WW1. War is almost always counterproductive, and funding should be focused on education for a better and smarter future, healthcare so people are dying from disease like it's the 1800's, Welfare so people can feed their children, and other things.

A government is suppose to protect the rights of the people, and serve the people. Not to ruin the people with totalitairanism and militaristic Xenopboia.

[Nervium]

But if you have the nation focused on war and the like the people won't argue about non important things like welfare and tobacco smokers. They will be focused on the war along with the government, so the people and the government won't be focusing on ruining each others life.

I think a certain German dictator of Austrian descent pretty much proved that ruining peoples lives while fighting wars is quite possible.

Also, fuck that idea of perpetual warfare.

[Threlizdun]

The Cold War? How the US along with other countries would prop up dictator ships to stop the spread of communism?

Yes. Its also the time that saw bloody wars against Communist countries, saw the utilisation of brutalising death squads such as UNITA or the contras to "stop Communism", or ruthless economic sanctions draining the life out of Communist countries. I apologise, however the truth is, our Capitalist governments are criminals that want to put the blame for their actions on their victims.

The United States never fought against anything that could be considered a communist nation. The Soviet Union and Spain both fought against communist societies with a cultural development that could be argued to be akin to that of a nation, though they are more or less it.

[Nuverikstan]

That I have not figured out yet but when I do I will tell you.

Authoritarianism is a fundamental aspect of fascism. What you are describing is more along the lines of militaristic neo-tribalism, though why the hell you would ever find such a nightmarish condition ideal is beyond me.

I will work this out later where this doesn't seem so bad. If you look at it it is not so bad because without war you get a united authoritarian world which I believe against.

And fine I won't advocate for it until it is refined where it makes sense.

[Pridnestrovie Transnistria]

Tell me?

You have never heard about "containment", neo-colonialism, under-development, the IMF, the World Bank, economic sanctions, the contras amongst other death squads, covert operations, anti-Communist purges, coup d'états, five decade+ long embargoes on Communist nations such as Cuba or Best Korea, amongst other manners Capitalist-Imperialist governments have destabilised or attempted to squash Communist, or Communist-derived countries I suppose?

Cuba and North Korea were not communist.

They are. They just were not given the chance to succeed in implementing their systems.

Yet even so, Cuba has managed it. It has an HDI of 0,700-0,800 ranges (which approaches the average we have in Europe), a GNP of about €8 000, in addition to a GINI figure of 31 less than most of our capitalist countries. It furthermore has decent socio-economic programmes, despite having been under siege for decades.

North Korea too has struggled. Despite having seen 2,5 million of its civilian slaughtered during the Korean War by coalition forces, its agricultural fields laden with mines, cluster munitions of chemical agents dropped by coalition forces, despite seeing 18 out of 22 cities being razed to the ground in brutalising bombardments, despite facing decades of embargoes itself, has succeeded in getting an HDI of 0,733 as of 2013 with some of its socio-economic programmes (such as education, medical services, amongst others) be in decent conditions.

[Alyekra]

But if you have the nation focused on war and the like the people won't argue about non important things like welfare and tobacco smokers. They will be focused on the war along with the government, so the people and the government won't be focusing on ruining each others life.

WAR IS PEACE and all that, right?

Bread and circuses and all that, right?

Just distract the people from what's actually going on with systemized bloodshed and everything will work out okay and all that, right?

Mass slaughter so the state doesn't have to deal with the inconvenience of having to listen to the petty bickering of the people who's best interests they should have in mind and all that, right?

How much disdain do you have to have for people to believe stuff like this? And what happens when you run out of other nation's people to murder? Start turning on a "rebel faction" that conveniently appears within your ranks before your citizens can realize what you've done?

[Miyager]

The one ruled by me.

[United Dependencies]

Parliamentary republics and presidential republics seem to fare pretty well.

[Threlizdun]

Cuba and North Korea were not communist.

They are. They just were not given the chance to succeed in implementing their systems.

Yet even so, Cuba has managed it. It has an HDI of 0,700-0,800 ranges (which approaches the average we have in Europe), a GNP of about €8 000, in addition to a GINI figure of 31 less than most of our capitalist countries. It furthermore has decent socio-economic programmes, despite having been under siege for decades.

North Korea too has struggled. Despite having seen 2,5 million of its civilian slaughtered during the Korean War by coalition forces, its agricultural fields laden with mines, cluster munitions of chemical agents dropped by coalition forces, despite seeing 18 out of 22 cities being razed to the ground in brutalising bombardments, despite facing decades of embargoes itself, has succeeded in getting an HDI of 0,733 as of 2013 with some of its socio-economic programmes (such as education, medical services, amongst others) be in decent conditions.

No, authoritarian single-party states in which the means of production are owned and managed in a capitalist manner and the workers are exploited purely for the benefit of the ruling class is not an example of the classless, stateless, socialist system that is communism. North Korea and Cuba are examples of society that have devoted themselves to the ultimate heights of capitalism.

[Orvius]

Here's my two cents:

There is no such thing as a perfect government. In fact, the very concept of perfect is flawed. Every form of rule has it's own advantages and disadvantages, strong suits and weaknesses; same as any other conceivable thing. Human beings are far from "perfect" and the idea of chasing perfection, whether it be with ones government or even in their looks, is impossible to begin with. Like a person, we have to accept that it's the flaws and differences that make a certain kind of government strong in their own specialized field.

So, what I'm basically saying is, there is no utopia. We just have to accept differences, since the concept of "perfect" is subjective, and therefore doesn't exist in the technical sense.

[Threlizdun]

Authoritarianism is a fundamental aspect of fascism. What you are describing is more along the lines of militaristic neo-tribalism, though why the hell you would ever find such a nightmarish condition ideal is beyond me.

I will work this out later where this doesn't seem so bad. If you look at it it is not so bad because without war you get a united authoritarian world which I believe against.

And fine I won't advocate for it until it is refined where it makes sense.

No, we can combat authoritarianism without slaughtering others. In fact, such violence and dehumanization are the things that make authoritarianism possible. If you want freedom, you must oppose war.

[Pandeeria]

Cuba and North Korea were not communist.

They are. They just were not given the chance to succeed in implementing their systems.

Yet even so, Cuba has managed it. It has an HDI of 0,700-0,800 ranges (which approaches the average we have in Europe), a GNP of about €8 000, in addition to a GINI figure of 31 less than most of our capitalist countries. It furthermore has decent socio-economic programmes, despite having been under siege for decades.

North Korea too has struggled. Despite having seen 2,5 million of its civilian slaughtered during the Korean War by coalition forces, its agricultural fields laden with mines, cluster munitions of chemical agents dropped by coalition forces, despite seeing 18 out of 22 cities being razed to the ground in brutalising bombardments, despite facing decades of embargoes itself, has succeeded in getting an HDI of 0,733 as of 2013 with some of its socio-economic programmes (such as education, medical services, amongst others) be in decent conditions.

Cuba isn't really even communist. Also get a source.

Decent conditions!? North Korea, to put it bluntly, is a totalitarian hell-hole. That's the thing with Communism, everyone will eventually become poor at the expense of the state which then industry will stagnant and slow down. Economically speak, capitalism "out runs" communism in the long run.

[Pridnestrovie Transnistria]

Yes. Its also the time that saw bloody wars against Communist countries, saw the utilisation of brutalising death squads such as UNITA or the contras to "stop Communism", or ruthless economic sanctions draining the life out of Communist countries. I apologise, however the truth is, our Capitalist governments are criminals that want to put the blame for their actions on their victims.

The United States never fought against anything that could be considered a communist nation. The Soviet Union and Spain both fought against communist societies with a cultural development that could be argued to be akin to that of a nation, though they are more or less it.

I am not merely speaking about the United States. I am talking about all of our capitalist governments both here in Western Europe as well as over there in North America. Our leaders, their corporate friends, in addition to their military associates, are to me guiltiest of massive crimes against Communist countries (such as North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, China, USSR etcetera) as well as non-Communist countries alike such as Iran.

Our governments even tried to take a country, back a so-called "Communist" (in practise extreme-agrarian feudalistic fascist) tyrant thence gave him the power he needed to engage in his abhorrent genocide, so as to then take that example to demonise all of Communism altogether for containment excuses-purposes. (Thank God Vietnam took care of that psychopathic regime)

[Pridnestrovie Transnistria]

They are. They just were not given the chance to succeed in implementing their systems.

Yet even so, Cuba has managed it. It has an HDI of 0,700-0,800 ranges (which approaches the average we have in Europe), a GNP of about €8 000, in addition to a GINI figure of 31 less than most of our capitalist countries. It furthermore has decent socio-economic programmes, despite having been under siege for decades.

North Korea too has struggled. Despite having seen 2,5 million of its civilian slaughtered during the Korean War by coalition forces, its agricultural fields laden with mines, cluster munitions of chemical agents dropped by coalition forces, despite seeing 18 out of 22 cities being razed to the ground in brutalising bombardments, despite facing decades of embargoes itself, has succeeded in getting an HDI of 0,733 as of 2013 with some of its socio-economic programmes (such as education, medical services, amongst others) be in decent conditions.

Cuba isn't really even communist. Also get a source.

Decent conditions!? North Korea, to put it bluntly, is a totalitarian hell-hole. That's the thing with Communism, everyone will eventually become poor at the expense of the state which then industry will stagnant and slow down. Economically speak, capitalism "out runs" communism in the long run.

Did you even consider why North Korea became "dictatorial" in the first place? You do realise it lost faith in so-called "democracy" whence the promised 1948 electoral reunification process was flagrantly annulled by Rhee Sygman right? Not to mention Rhee's regime committed massacres across the South too numbering 1,5 million victims at best (most notably in that Bodo League one)?

Or that similar cesspool was done by South Vietnam's Ngo Dinh Diem?

[Nuverikstan]

Here's my two cents:

There is no such thing as a perfect government. In fact, the very concept of perfect is flawed. Every form of rule has it's own advantages and disadvantages, strong suits and weaknesses; same as any other conceivable thing. Human beings are far from "perfect" and the idea of chasing perfection, whether it be with ones government or even in their looks, is impossible to begin with. Like a person, we have to accept that it's the flaws and differences that make a certain kind of government strong in their own specialized field.

So, what I'm basically saying is, there is no utopia. We just have to accept differences, since the concept of "perfect" is subjective, and therefore doesn't exist in the technical sense.

There is perfection in nationstates. I will stop with the jokes but I do believe this, that is why I just wanted to keep the government away from ruining the people and focus on something else. We could also just give the governments a giant city to live in so they do nothing so they ruin nothing.

[Pandeeria]

Cuba isn't really even communist. Also get a source.

Decent conditions!? North Korea, to put it bluntly, is a totalitarian hell-hole. That's the thing with Communism, everyone will eventually become poor at the expense of the state which then industry will stagnant and slow down. Economically speak, capitalism "out runs" communism in the long run.

Did you even consider why North Korea became "dictatorial" in the first place? You do realise it lost faith in so-called "democracy" whence the promised 1948 electoral reunification process was flagrantly annulled by Rhee Sygman right? Not to mention Rhee's regime committed massacres across the South too numbering 1,5 million victims at best (most notably in that Bodo League one)?

Or that similar cesspool was done by South Vietnam's Ngo Dinh Diem?

I guess losing faith in democracy didn't exactly work for them, eh?

[Alyekra]

Here's my two cents:

There is no such thing as a perfect government. In fact, the very concept of perfect is flawed. Every form of rule has it's own advantages and disadvantages, strong suits and weaknesses; same as any other conceivable thing. Human beings are far from "perfect" and the idea of chasing perfection, whether it be with ones government or even in their looks, is impossible to begin with. Like a person, we have to accept that it's the flaws and differences that make a certain kind of government strong in their own specialized field.

So, what I'm basically saying is, there is no utopia. We just have to accept differences, since the concept of "perfect" is subjective, and therefore doesn't exist in the technical sense.

There is perfection in nationstates. I will stop with the jokes but I do believe this, that is why I just wanted to keep the government away from ruining the people and focus on something else. We could also just give the governments a giant city to live in so they do nothing so they ruin nothing.

If the government ruins so much, then maybe you should get rid of it instead of, you know, sending it off to commit mass murder.

[Pandeeria]

There is perfection in nationstates. I will stop with the jokes but I do believe this, that is why I just wanted to keep the government away from ruining the people and focus on something else. We could also just give the governments a giant city to live in so they do nothing so they ruin nothing.

If the government ruins so much, then maybe you should get rid of it instead of, you know, sending it off to commit mass murder.

... And giving it complete power.

[Pridnestrovie Transnistria]

Did you even consider why North Korea became "dictatorial" in the first place? You do realise it lost faith in so-called "democracy" whence the promised 1948 electoral reunification process was flagrantly annulled by Rhee Sygman right? Not to mention Rhee's regime committed massacres across the South too numbering 1,5 million victims at best (most notably in that Bodo League one)?

Or that similar cesspool was done by South Vietnam's Ngo Dinh Diem?

I guess losing faith in democracy didn't exactly work for them, eh?

You could say that, however its also a fact Kim Il Sung used to be a proponent for Communist democracy, until the 1948 event changed his mind, whilst the Korean War completely ruined any such likelihood, since polarisation increased on the peninsular, whilst both countries went on decades-long states of emergency that continue to this day.

[Blasveck]

They are. They just were not given the chance to succeed in implementing their systems.

Yet even so, Cuba has managed it. It has an HDI of 0,700-0,800 ranges (which approaches the average we have in Europe), a GNP of about €8 000, in addition to a GINI figure of 31 less than most of our capitalist countries. It furthermore has decent socio-economic programmes, despite having been under siege for decades.

North Korea too has struggled. Despite having seen 2,5 million of its civilian slaughtered during the Korean War by coalition forces, its agricultural fields laden with mines, cluster munitions of chemical agents dropped by coalition forces, despite seeing 18 out of 22 cities being razed to the ground in brutalising bombardments, despite facing decades of embargoes itself, has succeeded in getting an HDI of 0,733 as of 2013 with some of its socio-economic programmes (such as education, medical services, amongst others) be in decent conditions.

Cuba isn't really even communist. Also get a source.

Decent conditions!? North Korea, to put it bluntly, is a totalitarian hell-hole. That's the thing with Communism, everyone will eventually become poor at the expense of the state which then industry will stagnant and slow down. Economically speak, capitalism "out runs" communism in the long run.

What?

Communists call for the dissolution of the state....

[Alyekra]

If the government ruins so much, then maybe you should get rid of it instead of, you know, sending it off to commit mass murder.

... And giving it complete power.

'Cause you know what they say about power.





Absolute power purifies absolutely.

[Threlizdun]

They are. They just were not given the chance to succeed in implementing their systems.

Yet even so, Cuba has managed it. It has an HDI of 0,700-0,800 ranges (which approaches the average we have in Europe), a GNP of about €8 000, in addition to a GINI figure of 31 less than most of our capitalist countries. It furthermore has decent socio-economic programmes, despite having been under siege for decades.

North Korea too has struggled. Despite having seen 2,5 million of its civilian slaughtered during the Korean War by coalition forces, its agricultural fields laden with mines, cluster munitions of chemical agents dropped by coalition forces, despite seeing 18 out of 22 cities being razed to the ground in brutalising bombardments, despite facing decades of embargoes itself, has succeeded in getting an HDI of 0,733 as of 2013 with some of its socio-economic programmes (such as education, medical services, amongst others) be in decent conditions.

Cuba isn't really even communist. Also get a source.

Decent conditions!? North Korea, to put it bluntly, is a totalitarian hell-hole. That's the thing with Communism, everyone will eventually become poor at the expense of the state which then industry will stagnant and slow down. Economically speak, capitalism "out runs" communism in the long run.

There is no state in communism. That is one of the defining features of communism.

The United States never fought against anything that could be considered a communist nation. The Soviet Union and Spain both fought against communist societies with a cultural development that could be argued to be akin to that of a nation, though they are more or less it.

I am not merely speaking about the United States. I am talking about all of our capitalist governments both here in Western Europe as well as over there in North America. Our leaders, their corporate friends, in addition to their military associates, are to me guiltiest of massive crimes against Communist countries (such as North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, China, USSR etcetera) as well as non-Communist countries alike such as Iran.

Our governments even tried to take a country, back a so-called "Communist" (in practise extreme-agrarian feudalistic fascist) tyrant thence gave him the power he needed to engage in his abhorrent genocide, so as to then take that example to demonise all of Communism altogether for containment excuses-purposes. (Thank God Vietnam took care of that psychopathic regime)

None of the countries you listed were communist. Communist societies existed within them, sometimes at a significant level, though they were often slaughtered by the "Communist" Parties within those nations. Yes, the foreign policy of many western nations has been highly detrimental, but you are simply wrong in presuming that the Leninist regimes were blameless in these atrocities.

[Nuverikstan]

If the government ruins so much, then maybe you should get rid of it instead of, you know, sending it off to commit mass murder.

... And giving it complete power.

Fine lets do that get rid of government, anarchy, the purge everywhere. Actually that's not that bad as long as the moral people band together then the survivors (Well most of them) will be good people. That will one day form another government for this to start all over again.

[Alyekra]

... And giving it complete power.

Fine lets do that get rid of government, anarchy, the purge everywhere. Actually that's not that bad as long as the moral people band together then the survivors (Well most of them) will be good people. That will one day form another government for this to start all over again.

No, what will happen is that people will realize that they don't need a monopoly on violence to run everything.