NATION

PASSWORD

What's your ideology?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Any major ideologies you agree with?

Capitalism
165
32%
Communisim
68
13%
Fascisim
49
9%
Socialism
152
29%
Valkisim
11
2%
Imperialism
34
7%
Social Conservatism
41
8%
 
Total votes : 520

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:14 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:
No, I'm a player and I'm trying to get critical feedback on my ideology and dicuss other people's, not argue on if my ideology is even an ideology, that is irrelevant to the topic of the thread, as far as I know, no one can disprove my ideology, only argue against if it can be considered one.


Your ideology puts WAY too much power in the hands on the government.

It's very fascistic.


Thank you!

Now, of course it puts the power to the government, who else can have the power?
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
Masophia
Attaché
 
Posts: 69
Founded: Oct 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Masophia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:16 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Your ideology puts WAY too much power in the hands on the government.

It's very fascistic.


Thank you!

Now, of course it puts the power to the government, who else can have the power?


How about the people?
“Libertas, Æqualitas, Fraternitas”

[mæˑzɔfiʲə]

User avatar
Blasveck
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13877
Founded: Dec 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Blasveck » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:17 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Your ideology puts WAY too much power in the hands on the government.

It's very fascistic.


Thank you!

Now, of course it puts the power to the government, who else can have the power?


I don't know.

Maybe the people?
Forever a Communist

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:19 pm

Masophia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:
Thank you!

Now, of course it puts the power to the government, who else can have the power?


How about the people?


The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
Khalite
Envoy
 
Posts: 285
Founded: Oct 04, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Khalite » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:20 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Masophia wrote:
How about the people?


The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.


Chad... I am finding it more and more difficult to defend the things you say. I think I'm out. :palm:
实力荣誉斯多葛主义; Khalite shines greater than one billion suns

User avatar
Blasveck
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13877
Founded: Dec 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Blasveck » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:21 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Masophia wrote:
How about the people?


The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.


Source please.

Really, if you're going to make a "Humans are X" argument, you better be a psychologist, archaeologist, sociologist, or have damn good sources.
Forever a Communist

User avatar
Transoxthraxia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22115
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Transoxthraxia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:21 pm

Peace Through Power. The people have their rights, excepting immigration and democratic rights. The government touches nothing but the military and immigration policies.
Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search for our better selves?
In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:—
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand." The City's gone,
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.

We wonder, and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
The Nuclear Fist wrote:Transoxthraxia confirmed for shit taste

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Khalite wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:
The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.


Chad... I am finding it more and more difficult to defend the things you say. I think I'm out. :palm:


What?
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:24 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Conscentia wrote:How about you do what everyone else does, and say what you mean? We aren't mind readers.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot not everyone is as smart as me and can't see the meaning behind the words.

A display of arrogance will only attract moderators...

Chad Empire wrote:What's your ideology? This is a question I run into a lot on this site, I try to carefully explain to people that I have a custom ideology 'Valkisim'[Name is meaningless, thus should not be taken seriously] but as soon as I get half way through it they label me as a 'Communist.'

So I ask: What's your ideology? Explain it and give constructive critisim for my ideology and anyone else's


Valkisim:
Valkisim is an ideology that works with[clarify] the beliefs of equality, order, and ultimate loyalty to its people[elaborate]; and expectation that its people will return said loyalty. It is similar to Communism and Socialism[elaborate] with a few things borrowed from Fascism[elaborate].

Amendments of Valkisim:

Valkisim Is anti-capitalist and anti-corporations, although it allows foreign corporations to do business on a small scale which is regulated by the government.[Why the arbitrary exception?]

All businesses are controlled and regulated by the government, the government will only demand a small tax of goods or small wealth payment.[If the economy is entirely state-controlled, taxation is irrelevant as all money returns to the state once spent]

All property is owned by the government but open to own by the populace, tax for residence takes the form of small amounts of wealth.[If the economy is entirely state-controlled, taxation is irrelevant as all money returns to the state once spent]

As businesses are owned by the government, failing businesses will be given financial aid for a period of two years[arbitrary time period] but if the business continues to fail it is forced to close and the government will claim the land.[Why would the government have to claim it's own land?]

Traditional schools are replaced with a new system[Traditional schools?]; children are taken from their family's[Why?] at the age of 8 and placed in academy's which are funded by the government, the children stay in these academy's until the age of 19.[How is this better than existing systems]

Punishment for laws are affected as well, imprisonment is no longer a sentence, hard labour is the most common, followed by a fine and in extreme cases: death.[inhumane]

Slavery is outlawed in every form, practice of it is punishable by hard labour[penal labour is slavery] [ :palm: ]

The government would be an atheist state, having complete separation from church and state, although sympathetic towards religions, it doesn't give them any more rights than anyone else.

Hospitals, Fire Stations, and Police Forces are all owned, controlled, and funded by the government, Hospitals must accept and tend to any sick or injured. Police forces risk their lives to fight crime and Fire Fighters combat the inferno.[This just describes what these services are already like]

Citizens are permitted to vote on small scale things (such as jury sentences) but not on leaders or crippling decisions.[Why not?]

Employees are paid per week in an amount to sustain one person person
for two weeks, as to retain wealth and assure equality. [Who decides what that is?][People's needs differ]

Price and pay are universal, like products would have the same price everywhere, different products have different prices.[Poor economic policy]

Valkisim (much like Fascism) aims to unify the nation as a whole and has militaristic tendency's[elaborate]; the academy's are run by military officers, so are Fire stations, and police stations, they are all branches of the military.[Why?]

Valkisim also believes it should resist foreign influence[Why?], not allowing culture from other nations to spread too far, and to preserve national identity and tradition[Dull].

User avatar
Masophia
Attaché
 
Posts: 69
Founded: Oct 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Masophia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:24 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Masophia wrote:
How about the people?


The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.


While I agree that the majority of people are unfit to govern, it is better to have the processes of representative democracy bring good leaders to the forefront. How would leaders be chosen in your system? Also, thinking of gov't officials as a 'diffrent species', by which I assume you mean a higher one, is dangerous and foolhardy to the extreme. Perhaps the best way to bring cruelty and barbarism is to put a small group of people on a pedestal above everyone else, give them all the power, and convince them that the masses as their inferiors, not even the same species. Do you not see the potential issues with this?
“Libertas, Æqualitas, Fraternitas”

[mæˑzɔfiʲə]

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:26 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Masophia wrote:
How about the people?


The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.

:rofl:

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:27 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:
The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.


Source please.

Really, if you're going to make a "Humans are X" argument, you better be a psychologist, archaeologist, sociologist, or have damn good sources.


Let me put it a diffrent way, most people only really think about themselves, I think we can agree on that yeah? Now my ideology works on the principle of everyone is equal outside the government, if I gave people any sort of power I would change this set up, which I find ideal, unless you can convince me otherwise?
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
The Gallant Old Republic
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Oct 02, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Gallant Old Republic » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:27 pm

Conservatism, plain and true.

To be more exact, traditional conservatism, the good old-fashioned kind. See below for more detail.
Anglo-Catholic-Methodism (in other words: a Catholic who is not yet a Catholic), Traditionalist Conservatism, Anti-Modernism, Subsidiarity, Monarchism, Anglophile, Medievalism, Euroscepticism, Anti-Technology/Luddism, Toryism, Classicism, Chivalry, Archaic Democracy, the Oxford Movement, Localism, Catholic Social Teaching, the Ecumenical Movement, Anti-Eugenics, Agrarianism, Distributism.

Governed by Prime Minister G.K. Chesterton (Distributist Party)

Senior Member of the Federation of Free States, founder of Anglo Saxon England, knight-regent of Soli Deo gloria, and more!

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:28 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Source please.

Really, if you're going to make a "Humans are X" argument, you better be a psychologist, archaeologist, sociologist, or have damn good sources.


Let me put it a diffrent way, most people only really think about themselves, I think we can agree on that yeah? Now my ideology works on the principle of everyone is equal outside the government, if I gave people any sort of power I would change this set up, which I find ideal, unless you can convince me otherwise?

No. You completely ignore the superorganisms humans form.

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:29 pm

Masophia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:
The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.


While I agree that the majority of people are unfit to govern, it is better to have the processes of representative democracy bring good leaders to the forefront. How would leaders be chosen in your system? Also, thinking of gov't officials as a 'diffrent species', by which I assume you mean a higher one, is dangerous and foolhardy to the extreme. Perhaps the best way to bring cruelty and barbarism is to put a small group of people on a pedestal above everyone else, give them all the power, and convince them that the masses as their inferiors, not even the same species. Do you not see the potential issues with this?


Okay you have a point, and the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet, technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:30 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Masophia wrote:
While I agree that the majority of people are unfit to govern, it is better to have the processes of representative democracy bring good leaders to the forefront. How would leaders be chosen in your system? Also, thinking of gov't officials as a 'diffrent species', by which I assume you mean a higher one, is dangerous and foolhardy to the extreme. Perhaps the best way to bring cruelty and barbarism is to put a small group of people on a pedestal above everyone else, give them all the power, and convince them that the masses as their inferiors, not even the same species. Do you not see the potential issues with this?


Okay you have a point, and the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet, technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.

:palm: You say people are too flawed to govern, and then give a small group of people all the power. Why?!
Last edited by Conscentia on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Blasveck
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13877
Founded: Dec 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Blasveck » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:31 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:

Okay you have a point, and the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet, technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.

:palm: You say people are too flawed to govern, and then give a small group of people all the power. Why?!


Just-World fallacy?

Not entirely sure if that is applicable here.
Forever a Communist

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:32 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:Oh I'm sorry, I forgot not everyone is as smart as me and can't see the meaning behind the words.

A display of arrogance will only attract moderators...

Chad Empire wrote:What's your ideology? This is a question I run into a lot on this site, I try to carefully explain to people that I have a custom ideology 'Valkisim'[Name is meaningless, thus should not be taken seriously] but as soon as I get half way through it they label me as a 'Communist.'

So I ask: What's your ideology? Explain it and give constructive critisim for my ideology and anyone else's


Valkisim:
Valkisim is an ideology that works with[clarify] the beliefs of equality, order, and ultimate loyalty to its people[elaborate]; and expectation that its people will return said loyalty. It is similar to Communism and Socialism[elaborate] with a few things borrowed from Fascism[elaborate].

Amendments of Valkisim:

Valkisim Is anti-capitalist and anti-corporations, although it allows foreign corporations to do business on a small scale which is regulated by the government.[Why the arbitrary exception?]

All businesses are controlled and regulated by the government, the government will only demand a small tax of goods or small wealth payment.[If the economy is entirely state-controlled, taxation is irrelevant as all money returns to the state once spent]

All property is owned by the government but open to own by the populace, tax for residence takes the form of small amounts of wealth.[If the economy is entirely state-controlled, taxation is irrelevant as all money returns to the state once spent]

As businesses are owned by the government, failing businesses will be given financial aid for a period of two years[arbitrary time period] but if the business continues to fail it is forced to close and the government will claim the land.[Why would the government have to claim it's own land?]

Traditional schools are replaced with a new system[Traditional schools?]; children are taken from their family's[Why?] at the age of 8 and placed in academy's which are funded by the government, the children stay in these academy's until the age of 19.[How is this better than existing systems]

Punishment for laws are affected as well, imprisonment is no longer a sentence, hard labour is the most common, followed by a fine and in extreme cases: death.[inhumane]

Slavery is outlawed in every form, practice of it is punishable by hard labour[penal labour is slavery] [ :palm: ]

The government would be an atheist state, having complete separation from church and state, although sympathetic towards religions, it doesn't give them any more rights than anyone else.

Hospitals, Fire Stations, and Police Forces are all owned, controlled, and funded by the government, Hospitals must accept and tend to any sick or injured. Police forces risk their lives to fight crime and Fire Fighters combat the inferno.[This just describes what these services are already like]

Citizens are permitted to vote on small scale things (such as jury sentences) but not on leaders or crippling decisions.[Why not?]

Employees are paid per week in an amount to sustain one person person
for two weeks, as to retain wealth and assure equality. [Who decides what that is?][People's needs differ]

Price and pay are universal, like products would have the same price everywhere, different products have different prices.[Poor economic policy]

Valkisim (much like Fascism) aims to unify the nation as a whole and has militaristic tendency's[elaborate]; the academy's are run by military officers, so are Fire stations, and police stations, they are all branches of the military.[Why?]

Valkisim also believes it should resist foreign influence[Why?], not allowing culture from other nations to spread too far, and to preserve national identity and tradition[Dull].



I would like to point out that I at least somewhat created a custom ideology and you have not.
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
Masophia
Attaché
 
Posts: 69
Founded: Oct 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Masophia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:33 pm

Chad Empire wrote:...the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet... technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.


1) So then your entire model of a perfect state falls apart!

2) Why on earth do you think that that would be preferable to a republic?
“Libertas, Æqualitas, Fraternitas”

[mæˑzɔfiʲə]

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:35 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:

Okay you have a point, and the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet, technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.

:palm: You say people are too flawed to govern, and then give a small group of people all the power. Why?!


These are not average people, they earned their positions, besides when I say 'people' I mean large groups of them, presumably voting in a democratic way.
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

User avatar
Masophia
Attaché
 
Posts: 69
Founded: Oct 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Masophia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:35 pm

Masophia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:...the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet... technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.


1) So then your entire model of a perfect state falls apart!

2) Why on earth do you think that that would be preferable to a republic?


Chad Empire wrote:I would like to point out that I at least somewhat created a custom ideology and you have not.


You having made up the ideology makes it weaker, not stronger. Unless you're the most brilliant political theorist, philosopher, and economist in history, which you're not.
Last edited by Masophia on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Libertas, Æqualitas, Fraternitas”

[mæˑzɔfiʲə]

User avatar
Norstal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41465
Founded: Mar 07, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Norstal » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:35 pm

Chad Empire wrote:
Masophia wrote:
How about the people?


The people cannot be trusted, greedy, selfish, corrupt, they are in no state to run a country, true some of the people become part if the government, but think of them as diffrent species, while society is selfish and corrupt, the government is fair and pure.

Damn, son, someone needs to go outside more often.
Toronto Sun wrote:Best poster ever. ★★★★★


New York Times wrote:No one can beat him in debates. 5/5.


IGN wrote:Literally the best game I've ever played. 10/10


NSG Public wrote:What a fucking douchebag.



Supreme Chairman for Life of the Itty Bitty Kitty Committee


User avatar
Masophia
Attaché
 
Posts: 69
Founded: Oct 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Masophia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:37 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:[...] I would like to point out that I at least somewhat created a custom ideology and you have not.

Thy "custom ideology" is nothing more than a rehash of pre-existing ideas. You've created nothing.


*Thine
“Libertas, Æqualitas, Fraternitas”

[mæˑzɔfiʲə]

User avatar
Chad Empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Chad Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:38 pm

Masophia wrote:
Chad Empire wrote:...the succession of leaders is something I haven't decided on yet... technically speaking my country is ruled by a single Lord and his inner circle, which is four people collectively.


1) So then your entire model of a perfect state falls apart!

2) Why on earth do you think that that would be preferable to a republic?


A republic? Well you see, I truely don't trust society at all, people voting collectively has very rarely yielded good results, look at America, they elected Bush then Obama, both horrible leaders, they just swayed the masses because masses are easily swayed, I don't like swaying and four jaded politicians will not be swayed easily.
I am an Atheist and I am Asexual, I am unbaised and fair.


"In this world, insanity is crucial to survival"- Chad
"Cowards will be shot, bravery will be commended, one thousand steps forward and not one step back" -Joseph Stalin

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Abserdia, Aggicificicerous, Eurocom, Fartsniffage, Herador, Lativs, Libertia-Columbia, Rary, Spirit of Hope, Valyxias

Advertisement

Remove ads