Does the friend-zone exist?

[Beta Test]

Sure it exists, but I've rarely been close to it.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Fuck no it doesn't exist.

Whether or not you like a given concept has no bearing on whether or not it's actually a concept. By the very fact that people use the term to describe a specific pehnominon, it is real. The status of unrequited love from someone who wishes to be friends with you is a real status. Hence, friend zone.

That's not actually what people mean when they use the term friendzone.

[United Marxist Nations]

Whether or not you like a given concept has no bearing on whether or not it's actually a concept. By the very fact that people use the term to describe a specific pehnominon, it is real. The status of unrequited love from someone who wishes to be friends with you is a real status. Hence, friend zone.

That's not actually what people mean when they use the term friendzone.

Yes it is; that's what it means.

[Vault 1]

Does the friend-zone exist?

Yes.
Everyone who has ever posted on NSG is probably in it.

[Lost heros]

Does the friend-zone exist?

Yes.
Everyone who has ever posted on NSG is probably in it.

Not unless, you've never been someone's friend.

[Vault 1]

Nice sig.

[Dyakovo]

I think it does, but we are more sympathetic to women when they fall into it, because let's face it, the types of men who fall into it tend to be, well, unmanly. They show their weakness and that is still not acceptable, that is why they fall into the infamous friend zone.

No, it is an invention of self-entitled asses who think that they're owed sex for not being an obvious douche.

[Xsyne]

What we're forgetting about here is that FZ and "nice guy syndrome" are intrinsically linked, as if to say "But I was nice to you, that entitles me to romance/sexing".

We don't live in a world of coin-operated orifices, people.

We will as soon as I get back from the patent office.

[Katyuscha]

It does, and I'm currently in the friend zone, myself.

[The yoshin empire]

The friendzone is when a person gives all the hints that he/she want a relationship with another person while bucking any request to actually persue that relationship. In otherwords the person want to eat its pie while having it too .

[Condunum]

Fuck no it doesn't exist.

Whether or not you like a given concept has no bearing on whether or not it's actually a concept. By the very fact that people use the term to describe a specific pehnominon, it is real. The status of unrequited love from someone who wishes to be friends with you is a real status. Hence, friend zone.

Yeah, no. Unrequited love is unrequited love. The friend zone is a term that implies being confined to a specific type of relationship, regardless of feelings. It's an attempt to make the lack of a relationship the fault of the person who doesn't want the relationship, and not just how it is.

The friend-zone is just a recent concept to explain away the inability to get with a single individual, instead of maturing and moving on.

[Dyakovo]

It does, and I'm currently in the friend zone, myself.

Get over yourself. No-one owes you anything for not being an obvious douche.

[Greed and Death]

Most of the guys who whine about it do so because the chick is not quite forth right about it. Sometimes phrases like I wish I had a bf like you. To the girl maybe she see the connotation of "like you" implies "not you", to the guy who just heard that he sees that thinks "like you" means "ask me out doofus".

Frankly. Yeah.

I mean there's no arguing there aren't people who don't, whether intentionally or unintentionally string other people along aware of their affections, because it feels good to be wanted, but they don't actually want to date said person.

Two of my biggest regrets in life, are doing that to a girl, a really nice girl too, and letting it happen to me all at the same time.

I am not quite certain if it is done intentionally. But yeah lots of my female friends have a habit sending signals that tell guys they are interested. I think largely because they are flirty playful types like myself. The difference is when a chick is interested me I don't like I scale back my flirtiness.

[Greed and Death]

It does, and I'm currently in the friend zone, myself.

Get over yourself. No-one owes you anything for not being an obvious douche.

He is saying he likes a chick and she does not like him, how is he a douche ?

[Tahar Joblis]

Unrequited love is one of those really, really old, nigh-universal themes for poets and writers to riff off of. I can say with a fair degree of confidence that where there is literature, there is a tradition of literature talking about male unrequited love.

Moreover, the norms haven't changed nearly enough in the last few centuries to be able to draw anything like the line in the sand you're constructing.

Norms have changed enough in the last several decades to have a very serious discussion about the demonization of male sexuality, actually.

Don't equate the 'friendzone' with unrequited love, nor with male sexuality in general. As you say, the 'friendzone' is a new concept, coming with new connotation seperate from the broader spectrum of unrequited love.

Being sad or upset at the fact that someone doesn't love you back isn't sad or creepy in and of itself, it's just a part of human social interaction. It's what you describe that feeling and your relationship with the person who doesn't love you that the creepiness comes in.

Two things which, combined, are a sufficient condition for people to call you creepy for being in the friend zone:

1. You are male.
2. You are complaining about being in the friend zone, i.e., expressing your sadness or upset.

I have seen many threads on this topic. It does not matter what the nature of the complaint is; simply being in that position, as a man, and complaining about it is sufficient for people to call you everything from "creepy" to "rape supporter" to "entitled." At present. Here.

Ten years ago, that was not the case. The common responses to "I'm stuck in the friend zone" from a man ranged from "Cheer up, there are more fish in the sea" to "Try making a serious move, she might actually like you" with the occasional "Just give it time, things will change once she grows up and wises up." Depending on the nature of the complaint, you might also see "She's using/abusing you, get out," a common piece of advice whenever anybody shows red flags in complaining about an interpersonal relationship. You'd also see basically the same set of advice with "he" in it when a woman gave the same complaint (though usually without the same words). Maybe a little more "more fish in the sea" and a little less "make a serious move," but pretty similar.

Now, the most common responses split between "You're a whiny BETA, MAN UP, become ALPHA/GAME/PUA!" (along the same lines of the above two, only puffed up to the point of misogyny and framed to shame) and "You're a CREEPY ENTITLED RAPIST/DOUCHEBAG/MISOGYNIST!" (taking the misandrist approach to shaming and denigration).

With women... well, the "things will change once he grows up and wises up" has gotten quieter, but it hasn't changed much. With men, though, we've gone from sympathy and understanding that this is a normal situation in which people get upset for understandable reasons, in which either or both parties might be at fault, to shitting on people (particularly men) for being in an unhappy situation, leaping to the conclusion that it's always their fault, etc.

Because somehow, the misogynists and the misandrists are working together on this one. The misogynists are shitting on the male friend zonee because he's not macho enough. The misandrists are shitting on him because he's a man. So shitting on men stuck in the friend zone has become the dominant feature of the narrative surrounding the friend zone. It's fucked up.

[The Merchant Republics]

Unrequited love is one of those really, really old, nigh-universal themes for poets and writers to riff off of. I can say with a fair degree of confidence that where there is literature, there is a tradition of literature talking about male unrequited love.

Moreover, the norms haven't changed nearly enough in the last few centuries to be able to draw anything like the line in the sand you're constructing.

Norms have changed enough in the last several decades to have a very serious discussion about the demonization of male sexuality, actually.

Don't equate the 'friendzone' with unrequited love, nor with male sexuality in general. As you say, the 'friendzone' is a new concept, coming with new connotation seperate from the broader spectrum of unrequited love.

Being sad or upset at the fact that someone doesn't love you back isn't sad or creepy in and of itself, it's just a part of human social interaction. It's what you describe that feeling and your relationship with the person who doesn't love you that the creepiness comes in.

Two things which, combined, are a sufficient condition for people to call you creepy for being in the friend zone:

1. You are male.
2. You are complaining about being in the friend zone, i.e., expressing your sadness or upset.

I have seen many threads on this topic. It does not matter what the nature of the complaint is; simply being in that position, as a man, and complaining about it is sufficient for people to call you everything from "creepy" to "rape supporter" to "entitled." At present. Here.

Ten years ago, that was not the case. The common responses to "I'm stuck in the friend zone" from a man ranged from "Cheer up, there are more fish in the sea" to "Try making a serious move, she might actually like you" with the occasional "Just give it time, things will change once she grows up and wises up." Depending on the nature of the complaint, you might also see "She's using/abusing you, get out," a common piece of advice whenever anybody shows red flags in complaining about an interpersonal relationship. You'd also see basically the same set of advice with "he" in it when a woman gave the same complaint (though usually without the same words). Maybe a little more "more fish in the sea" and a little less "make a serious move," but pretty similar.

Now, the most common responses split between "You're a whiny BETA, MAN UP, become ALPHA/GAME/PUA!" (along the same lines of the above two, only puffed up to the point of misogyny and framed to shame) and "You're a CREEPY ENTITLED RAPIST/DOUCHEBAG/MISOGYNIST!" (taking the misandrist approach to shaming and denigration).

With women... well, the "things will change once he grows up and wises up" has gotten quieter, but it hasn't changed much. With men, though, we've gone from sympathy and understanding that this is a normal situation in which people get upset for understandable reasons, in which either or both parties might be at fault, to shitting on people (particularly men) for being in an unhappy situation, leaping to the conclusion that it's always their fault, etc.

Because somehow, the misogynists and the misandrists are working together on this one. The misogynists are shitting on the male friend zonee because he's not macho enough. The misandrists are shitting on him because he's a man. So shitting on men stuck in the friend zone has become the dominant feature of the narrative surrounding the friend zone. It's fucked up.

You actually make a powerful point there. In at very least pointing out that the language very much has changed, and perhaps rightly but nonetheless, it is very true that the conversation has changed without really a lot of difference in behaviour. We've just gone from being sympathetic to denouncing them all as douchebags.

Frankly, I'm guilty of it in this thread. Essentially saying "friendzoners are not manly enough", but I won't concede that I'm wrong in that respect, I do find a lot of the times, and even with myself the problem of being "stuck in the friendzone" tends to either be either crying because you've been rejected and don't want to move on, or crying because you're friend is throwing themselves at you for just being nice to them.

But yeah, the sympathy is largely replaced with vitriol and not entirely justified.

[Greed and Death]

Unrequited love is one of those really, really old, nigh-universal themes for poets and writers to riff off of. I can say with a fair degree of confidence that where there is literature, there is a tradition of literature talking about male unrequited love.

Moreover, the norms haven't changed nearly enough in the last few centuries to be able to draw anything like the line in the sand you're constructing.

Norms have changed enough in the last several decades to have a very serious discussion about the demonization of male sexuality, actually.

Don't equate the 'friendzone' with unrequited love, nor with male sexuality in general. As you say, the 'friendzone' is a new concept, coming with new connotation seperate from the broader spectrum of unrequited love.

Being sad or upset at the fact that someone doesn't love you back isn't sad or creepy in and of itself, it's just a part of human social interaction. It's what you describe that feeling and your relationship with the person who doesn't love you that the creepiness comes in.

Two things which, combined, are a sufficient condition for people to call you creepy for being in the friend zone:

1. You are male.
2. You are complaining about being in the friend zone, i.e., expressing your sadness or upset.

I have seen many threads on this topic. It does not matter what the nature of the complaint is; simply being in that position, as a man, and complaining about it is sufficient for people to call you everything from "creepy" to "rape supporter" to "entitled." At present. Here.

Ten years ago, that was not the case. The common responses to "I'm stuck in the friend zone" from a man ranged from "Cheer up, there are more fish in the sea" to "Try making a serious move, she might actually like you" with the occasional "Just give it time, things will change once she grows up and wises up." Depending on the nature of the complaint, you might also see "She's using/abusing you, get out," a common piece of advice whenever anybody shows red flags in complaining about an interpersonal relationship. You'd also see basically the same set of advice with "he" in it when a woman gave the same complaint (though usually without the same words). Maybe a little more "more fish in the sea" and a little less "make a serious move," but pretty similar.

Now, the most common responses split between "You're a whiny BETA, MAN UP, become ALPHA/GAME/PUA!" (along the same lines of the above two, only puffed up to the point of misogyny and framed to shame) and "You're a CREEPY ENTITLED RAPIST/DOUCHEBAG/MISOGYNIST!" (taking the misandrist approach to shaming and denigration).

With women... well, the "things will change once he grows up and wises up" has gotten quieter, but it hasn't changed much. With men, though, we've gone from sympathy and understanding that this is a normal situation in which people get upset for understandable reasons, in which either or both parties might be at fault, to shitting on people (particularly men) for being in an unhappy situation, leaping to the conclusion that it's always their fault, etc.

Because somehow, the misogynists and the misandrists are working together on this one. The misogynists are shitting on the male friend zonee because he's not macho enough. The misandrists are shitting on him because he's a man. So shitting on men stuck in the friend zone has become the dominant feature of the narrative surrounding the friend zone. It's fucked up.

This post it sums up things nicely.

[Avenio]

Norms have changed enough in the last several decades to have a very serious discussion about the demonization of male sexuality, actually.

You have yet to prove as such.

Two things which, combined, are a sufficient condition for people to call you creepy for being in the friend zone:

1. You are male.
2. You are complaining about being in the friend zone, i.e., expressing your sadness or upset.

Again, no. It all comes down to how you word it. "I wish she felt the same way about me as I do about her" is not creepy, for example. "I wish I could make her see me the way she sees those other guys", does wander into the creepyzone.

I have seen many threads on this topic. It does not matter what the nature of the complaint is; simply being in that position, as a man, and complaining about it is sufficient for people to call you everything from "creepy" to "rape supporter" to "entitled." At present. Here.

Ten years ago, that was not the case. The common responses to "I'm stuck in the friend zone" from a man ranged from "Cheer up, there are more fish in the sea" to "Try making a serious move, she might actually like you" with the occasional "Just give it time, things will change once she grows up and wises up." Depending on the nature of the complaint, you might also see "She's using/abusing you, get out," a common piece of advice whenever anybody shows red flags in complaining about an interpersonal relationship. You'd also see basically the same set of advice with "he" in it when a woman gave the same complaint (though usually without the same words). Maybe a little more "more fish in the sea" and a little less "make a serious move," but pretty similar.

Again, the contect and wording is important. As in my example above, the first wording would probably garner sympathy - after all, you're just expressing sadness and/or frustration with the situation. The second, though, is brow-raising because it takes agency in the situation away from the 'zonee', and fantasizes about a situation where one could control the thoughts of the other person.

Now, the most common responses split between "You're a whiny BETA, MAN UP, become ALPHA/GAME/PUA!" (along the same lines of the above two, only puffed up to the point of misogyny and framed to shame) and "You're a CREEPY ENTITLED RAPIST/DOUCHEBAG/MISOGYNIST!" (taking the misandrist approach to shaming and denigration).

... I haven't heard either of those once in my two-odd decades on the planet. Speaking anecdotally (which is all your observation is, really), I wouldn't say it's all that 'common'.

[Dutch Afrika]

Of course it exists. And thing is, once there, you can't get fucking out. It slowly sucks your hopes off, feeding on you.

It's better to give up hopes once you realize you have become just a 'friend'. And that is, forever.

[Dyakovo]

Get over yourself. No-one owes you anything for not being an obvious douche.

He is saying he likes a chick and she does not like him, how is he a douche ?

He is saying that he is owed a relationship because he's not an obvious douche. Whether or not he is actually a douche is immaterial. On a number of occasions I've been interested in a girl that wasn't interested in me, I have never been "friend-zoned" though because I've never felt I was owed a relationship.

[Aurora Novus]

Whether or not you like a given concept has no bearing on whether or not it's actually a concept. By the very fact that people use the term to describe a specific pehnominon, it is real. The status of unrequited love from someone who wishes to be friends with you is a real status. Hence, friend zone.

That's not actually what people mean when they use the term friendzone.

Yes it is actually. That's precisely what they mean.

[Duvniask]

He is saying he likes a chick and she does not like him, how is he a douche ?

He is saying that he is owed a relationship because he's not an obvious douche. Whether or not he is actually a douche is immaterial. On a number of occasions I've been interested in a girl that wasn't interested in me, I have never been "friend-zoned" though because I've never felt I was owed a relationship.

They never said anyone owed them anything.

How did you reach that conclusion?

[Aurora Novus]

Whether or not you like a given concept has no bearing on whether or not it's actually a concept. By the very fact that people use the term to describe a specific pehnominon, it is real. The status of unrequited love from someone who wishes to be friends with you is a real status. Hence, friend zone.

Yeah, no. Unrequited love is unrequited love.

Good thing that's not all I said. Quote, "The status of unrequited love from someone who wishes to be friends with you is a real status. Hence, friend zone."

The friend zone is a term that implies being confined to a specific type of relationship, regardless of feelings. It's an attempt to make the lack of a relationship the fault of the person who doesn't want the relationship, and not just how it is.

Bollocks. Instead of projecting what you want it to be, how about you actually pay attention to how people use it? More people than not use the term simple to mean "friends with someone you want to date", without any intention of acuusing the other party of having done something wrong.

The friend-zone is just a recent concept to explain away the inability to get with a single individual, instead of maturing and moving on.

"Maturing and moving on". As if it's that simple. And people say I'm dismissive of emotions.

[Rocopurr]

Of course it exists. And thing is, once there, you can't get fucking out. It slowly sucks your hopes off, feeding on you.

It's better to give up hopes once you realize you have become just a 'friend'. And that is, forever.

You really make friendship out to be an awful thing. Yeah, it sucks to get rejected, but you'll most likely get over it and then just be happy friends. Even if you don't, wouldn't you rather be friends than enemies or nothing at all?

[Dutch Afrika]

Of course it exists. And thing is, once there, you can't get fucking out. It slowly sucks your hopes off, feeding on you.

It's better to give up hopes once you realize you have become just a 'friend'. And that is, forever.

You really make friendship out to be an awful thing. Yeah, it sucks to get rejected, but you'll most likely get over it and then just be happy friends. Even if you don't, wouldn't you rather be friends than enemies or nothing at all?

1) Waaaat. I make friendship look awful?

2) Of course it does. Friendzone is just the slower form. I would rather be told straight-forward.

3) I would rather be friends. But friendzone is a different thing.