Abortion Denied

[The Shia Califate]

Oh yes, shining cities full of prosperous people and beautiful architecture and traditions that continue to this day are clearly hell holes.

Yeah, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. are just as prosperous and beautiful as places such as the UK, Sweden, Canada, and more.

And I think oppressive theocracies that execute gays and others aren't happy little places.

People outside of them tend to think they're awful, and vice versa.

[Pandeeria]

Yeah, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. are just as prosperous and beautiful as places such as the UK, Sweden, Canada, and more.

And I think oppressive theocracies that execute gays and others aren't happy little places.

People outside of them tend to think they're awful, and vice versa.

I think theocracy, murdering gays, oppressing women and racial minorities, breaking basic human rights, oppression, etc. is universally bad.

[Oneracon]

"The murder charges related to a patient who died while under his care and seven newborns said to have been killed after being born alive during attempted abortions"

Please see underlined section.

Let me phrase it like this for you... Would you be willing to perform an abortion and be an abortion doctor? I know that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I would be thinking about all of the lives that I ended at work that day, and what those fetuses could have became if their lives had not been ended way too early...

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life on the streets at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

[The Shia Califate]

Let me phrase it like this for you... Would you be willing to perform an abortion and be an abortion doctor? I know that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I would be thinking about all of the lives that I ended at work that day, and what those fetuses could have became if their lives had not been ended way too early...

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life on the streets at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

[Sun Wukong]

Yeah, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. are just as prosperous and beautiful as places such as the UK, Sweden, Canada, and more.

And I think oppressive theocracies that execute gays and others aren't happy little places.

People outside of them tend to think they're awful, and vice versa.

As it happens I know quite a few people from inside of them that tend to think they are awful as well, but you are drifting from the topic.

[Austrian East Indies]

all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home

Why is the general assumption for foster home/care or adoption parents is that they are an unloving family? Is the foster care/adoption a forced system in the West?

[Geilinor]

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life on the streets at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

People, especially adolescents, are allowed to make mistakes.

[Oneracon]

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life on the streets at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

And who are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies with a consenting partner?

[The Shia Califate]

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

People, especially adolescents, are allowed to make mistakes.

And they must pay for their mistakes as well.

[The Shia Califate]

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

And who are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies with a consenting partner?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying if they didn't have sex, they wouldn't have needed an abortion.

[Oneracon]

all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home

Why is the general assumption for foster home/care or adoption parents is that they are an unloving family? Is the foster care/adoption a forced system in the West?

I think you misread my statement. I'm referring to the children who don't end up getting adopted and "age out" (become too old for government support).

[Riiser-Larsen]

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life on the streets at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

And the human race would die out. You can't justify celibacy by claiming that not being celibate might lead to pregnancies. That's like refusing to leave your house because you might get hit by a bus.

[Kylistan]

Let me phrase it like this for you... Would you be willing to perform an abortion and be an abortion doctor? I know that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I would be thinking about all of the lives that I ended at work that day, and what those fetuses could have became if their lives had not been ended way too early...

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life of poverty at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

Well I think that in the end we are just going to have to agree to disagree because I will never be able to look past the fact that abortion is immoral. You can sugar coat it however you want and talk about how all babies that get aborted would have been failures in life anyways (which I don't believe is true), but the bottom line is that when a baby is aborted a life is lost, and I will never be able to accept abortion as a viable option unless the mother's life is in danger or she had been raped.

[Pandeeria]

People, especially adolescents, are allowed to make mistakes.

And they must pay for their mistakes as well.

Not if their mistakes can be totally erased.

[Austrian East Indies]

People, especially adolescents, are allowed to make mistakes.

And then take responsibility for it. That's the whole part of being mature and growing up. I generally consider abortion (unless in life threatening cases) to be irresponsible and escaping responsibility.

Have sex? You are taking calculated risk of generating pregnancy. It's part of the nature of sex afterall.

Don't like it? Vasectomy or tubal ligation for you for 100% safety.

[Oneracon]

And who are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies with a consenting partner?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying if they didn't have sex, they wouldn't have needed an abortion.

I could add to that: If her parents weren't religious fundamentalists then maybe she would have had better access to contraception.

[The Shia Califate]

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

And the human race would die out. You can't justify celibacy by claiming that not being celibate might lead to pregnancies. That's like refusing to leave your house because you might get hit by a bus.

No, what I'm saying is you shouldn't play in the road if you don't want to get hit by a bus.

[Riiser-Larsen]

People, especially adolescents, are allowed to make mistakes.

And they must pay for their mistakes as well.

I don't think you seem to grasp the scale of this. Having to take care of a child when one has no financial resources or time is not the same thing has having to go after-school to make up a failed test.

[Sun Wukong]

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life on the streets at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

I'd like to point out again that if they didn't have sex, this never would've happened

The problem is that women too young to have children are becoming pregnant.

Our solution is to find ways to stop them from becoming pregnant. And enable them to end the pregnancy if they desire to do so.

Your solution is to ridicule them.

However good that may make you feel about yourself, it won't actually solve the problem.

[The Shia Califate]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying if they didn't have sex, they wouldn't have needed an abortion.

I could add to that: If her parents weren't religious fundamentalists then maybe she would have had better access to contraception.

If she couldn't get contraception by herself, she probably isn't ready for sex.

[Pandeeria]

People, especially adolescents, are allowed to make mistakes.

And then take responsibility for it. That's the whole part of being mature and growing up. I generally consider abortion (unless in life threatening cases) to be irresponsible and escaping responsibility.

Have sex? You are taking calculated risk of generating pregnancy. It's part of the nature of sex afterall.

Don't like it? Vasectomy or tubal ligation for you for 100% safety.

Teens should be able to have access to protection to avoid these types of things.

[Oneracon]

Would I be willing to become an abortion doctor? Sure.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was one of those "pro-life" people... Knowing all the people that have been forced deeper into poverty trying to pay for a child they can't support and didn't want, all those children being put into the adoption/foster-care system who may never find a loving home and end up as wards of the state until they are unceremoniously kicked out from government support into a life of poverty at the age of 18, all those people that had been murdered and harassed in the name of my "cause".

Well I think that in the end we are just going to have to agree to disagree because I will never be able to look past the fact that abortion is immoral. You can sugar coat it however you want and talk about how all babies that get aborted would have been failures in life anyways (which I don't believe is true), but the bottom line is that when a baby is aborted a life is lost, and I will never be able to accept abortion as a viable option unless the mother's life is in danger or she had been raped.

I said nothing of the sort. I do not appreciate words being put in my mouth, thank you.

[Riiser-Larsen]

And the human race would die out. You can't justify celibacy by claiming that not being celibate might lead to pregnancies. That's like refusing to leave your house because you might get hit by a bus.

No, what I'm saying is you shouldn't play in the road if you don't want to get hit by a bus.

Yeah, except that people can still live happily as a person without playing in the road. Do you really want to be the one to tell a teenager "You have to suffer through social stigma and sexual frustration because you might have a kid?"

[Ponyfornia]

I generally consider abortion (unless in life threatening cases) to be irresponsible and escaping responsibility.

I think not having an abortion in this case would be irresponsible.

[Austrian East Indies]

Teens should be able to have access to protection to avoid these types of things.

Sure, I agree to that. But I would also point out that if said teens have already taken necessary protections but still joined up the 10% rate of pregnancy happening out of safe sex (condom is only 90% effective, not 100%) - they'll have to bear responsibility for caring the child. It's a fair deal.