US Civil War

[Genivaria]

Wow Deja vu.
Anyway the thread was getting really de-railed into becoming a civil war thread so I thought "fuck it I'll make another one."
So here it is.

In my opinion the Confederates were nothing but a bunch of treasonous, slave-owning, shits who pulled the nation into a bloody conflict because they threw a hissy fit when they couldn't get their way in Congress. (boy doesn't THAT sound familiar?)
Aaaaand go.

[Ponyfornia]

United we stand, divided we fall.

That's cliché, but yeah, that's right.

[Pandeeria]

United we stand, divided we fall.

That's actually really true.


I think the Confederacy was treasonous also.

[Wisconsin9]

Proud Virginian who happens to think the Confederates were traitors and should have been treated as such.

[Maurepas]

It goes back before that. From the start, even among the English Colonies, there was a deep divide in the interests of the Southern Colonies and the rest of the Nation.

Both the Civil War, and today's political issues are outgrowths of that.

[Paketo]

So the people who started the American revolution are treasonous bastards. Good to know you think that. They threw a hissy fit because they didn't get their way in parliament and had to pay taxes. Unless somehow the American revolution and the people who did it deserve special treatment

[Wisconsin9]

So the people who started the American revolution are treasonous bastards. Good to know you think that. They threw a hissy fit because they didn't get their way in parliament and had to pay taxes. Unless somehow the American revolution deserves special treatment

They were traitors too. It's just that they were traitors with some legitimate, non-oppressive reasons for committing treason.

[Genivaria]

So the people who started the American revolution are treasonous bastards. Good to know you think that. They threw a hissy fit because they didn't get their way in parliament and had to pay taxes. Unless somehow the American revolution deserves special treatment

Not a history major I take it.

He has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our People.
He has erected a Multitude of New Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has made Judges dependent on his will alone, for the Tenure of their offices and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.
He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the Consent of our Legislatures.
For cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World.
For quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us.
For imposing Taxes on us without our consent.
For depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury.

From the DoI.

[Paketo]

So the people who started the American revolution are treasonous bastards. Good to know you think that. They threw a hissy fit because they didn't get their way in parliament and had to pay taxes. Unless somehow the American revolution deserves special treatment

They were traitors too. It's just that they were traitors with some legitimate, non-oppressive reasons for committing treason.

So forcing Tories out of their homes and land, tar and feathering tax collectors is not oppressive

[Genivaria]

They were traitors too. It's just that they were traitors with some legitimate, non-oppressive reasons for committing treason.

So forcing Tories out of their homes and land, tar and feathering tax collectors is not oppressive

That was done by civilians not anything to do with the revolution itself.
And yeah that was a bit dickish, understandable but dickish.

[Paketo]

So forcing Tories out of their homes and land, tar and feathering tax collectors is not oppressive

That was done by civilians not anything to do with the revolution itself.
And yeah that was a bit dickish, understandable but dickish.

Patriot milita did most of the tori killing and kicking them off their land.

[Blasveck]

Slavery is bad, m'kay?

(And the Confederates fired first!)

[Paketo]

Slavery is bad, m'kay?

(And the Confederates fired first!)

Of course slavery is bad

(And union was given the chance to evacuate fort Sumter)

[Genivaria]

That was done by civilians not anything to do with the revolution itself.
And yeah that was a bit dickish, understandable but dickish.

Patriot milita did most of the tori killing and kicking them off their land.

Still irrelevant.

[Genivaria]

Slavery is bad, m'kay?

(And the Confederates fired first!)

Of course slavery is bad

(And union was given the chance to evacuate fort Sumter)

Why should they evacuate THEIR fort on THEIR land?

[Wisconsin9]

Slavery is bad, m'kay?

(And the Confederates fired first!)

Of course slavery is bad

(And union was given the chance to evacuate fort Sumter)

And the Rebs had no legal authority to kick the Union out of the fort.

[Paketo]

Patriot milita did most of the tori killing and kicking them off their land.

Still irrelevant.

Patriot milita made up most of the military if the colonists so the military did most it not civilians is what I am saying

[Maurepas]

Still irrelevant.

Patriot milita made up most of the military if the colonists so the military did most it not civilians is what I am saying

I think the people you're looking for are the French Military and the French Navy.

Anyway, I'm personally in agreement with the fact that Treason isn't always bad. That said, treason for slavery or because you didn't like who won an election is particularly shitty and bad.

[The Roman Imperial Republic]

The Civil War was a war between a government and rebels. No nation recognized the CSA, although Britain came close, it never did. We were too lenient to the damn traitors.

[Olivaero]

I think the confederates were ass holes who owned slaves. However the fact that they were denied self determination by the federal government brings into question the legitimacy of the US reclaiming thoes territories back after the war if we were to use the modern logic of "self determination is king". Of course modern day they feel more american than dixie so it's pretty much a void question (I assume anyway). So I guess the question would be was the US justified in bringing the confederates back into it's jurisdiction after the war? I would say probably not using the modern standards of self determination. Sure force war reparations on them for attacking the property of the US government and force them to pay for all the federal property they seized, hell maybe even force them to release their slaves, but reclaiming the land? probably unjust at the time of it happening.

[Gauthier]

They were traitors too. It's just that they were traitors with some legitimate, non-oppressive reasons for committing treason.

So forcing Tories out of their homes and land, tar and feathering tax collectors is not oppressive

Shouldn't your flag be the Union Jack instead of the Stars and Bars?

[Wisconsin9]

I think the confederates were ass holes who owned slaves. However the fact that they were denied self determination by the federal government brings into question the legitimacy of the US reclaiming thoes territories back after the war if we were to use the modern logic of "self determination is king". Of course modern day they feel more american than dixie so it's pretty much a void question (I assume anyway). So I guess the question would be was the US justified in bringing the confederates back into it's jurisdiction after the war? I would say probably not using the modern standards of self determination. Sure force war reparations on them for attacking the property of the US government and force them to pay for all the federal property they seized, hell maybe even force them to release their slaves, but reclaiming the land? probably unjust at the time of it happening.

Perfectly just. The Confederacy attempted to steal land paid for by the United States government and launched an unprovoked war for unjust reasons.

[Libertarian California]

While I am sympathetic to the idea of states' rights, the Union and the American nation are forever, and slavery is evil.

[Libertarian California]

So the people who started the American revolution are treasonous bastards. Good to know you think that. They threw a hissy fit because they didn't get their way in parliament and had to pay taxes. Unless somehow the American revolution deserves special treatment

They were traitors too. It's just that they were traitors with some legitimate, non-oppressive reasons for committing treason.

Please don't compare the colonial Patriots to the Confederacy.

It's pretty insulting and a false comparison.

[Maurepas]

They were traitors too. It's just that they were traitors with some legitimate, non-oppressive reasons for committing treason.

Please don't compare the colonial Patriots to the Confederacy.

It's pretty insulting and a false comparison.

In the one aspect of they were both committing Treason, they are alike.