Should this Federal shutdown be made permanent?

[The Nuclear Fist]

Essentially this. If Hong Kong were a State, it'd be 13th in population in the US.

But personally, I suspect that the OP would just love it if America were to become a Confederation again. None of that whole pesky "unified country" idea, America would be fifty independent States in all but name, with a "government" so weak that it couldn't even defend itself if needed.

After all, that way it's so much easier for the corporate and other monied interests to dominate the entire system - race to the bottom among State regulators, tax-code writers, etc. etc. etc. leaving the plutocracy in charge.

And we all lived happily ever after.

[European Socialist Republic]

Arbitrarily defined based on the necessary hurdles needed to validate him at any point.

Essentially this. If Hong Kong were a State, it'd be 13th in population in the US.

But personally, I suspect that the OP would just love it if America were to become a Confederation again. None of that whole pesky "unified country" idea, America would be fifty independent States in all but name, with a "government" so weak that it couldn't even defend itself if needed.

After all, that way it's so much easier for the corporate and other monied interests to dominate the entire system - race to the bottom among State regulators, tax-code writers, etc. etc. etc. leaving the plutocracy in charge.

The only reason you're opposed to the OP's ideas is because you hate freedom!

[New Chalcedon]

Essentially this. If Hong Kong were a State, it'd be 13th in population in the US.

But personally, I suspect that the OP would just love it if America were to become a Confederation again. None of that whole pesky "unified country" idea, America would be fifty independent States in all but name, with a "government" so weak that it couldn't even defend itself if needed.

After all, that way it's so much easier for the corporate and other monied interests to dominate the entire system - race to the bottom among State regulators, tax-code writers, etc. etc. etc. leaving the plutocracy in charge.

And we all lived happily ever after.

The rich deserving among us, at any rate...

[The Emerald Legion]

You mean Hong Kong, with their Mandatory payments into retirement, free government run hospitals, and a centralized government?

Yes.
All run by Hong Kong's local government, not by PRC.
What, you thought I was going to advocate anarchy?

I support local governments, united by means of a confederacy allowing for free trade and travel between participating states. It's even better if they are all laissez-faire, like Hong Kong to a large extent is, but it's enough if just some are.

Why are local governments better than federal?

[Norstal]

Yes.
All run by Hong Kong's local government, not by PRC.
What, you thought I was going to advocate anarchy?

I support local governments, united by means of a confederacy allowing for free trade and travel between participating states. It's even better if they are all laissez-faire, like Hong Kong to a large extent is, but it's enough if just some are.

Why are local governments better than federal?

So that Texans can finally abolish science and begin learning about good ol' Christian education like creationism.

[The Nuclear Fist]

And we all lived happily ever after.

The rich deserving among us, at any rate...

Hey, they wouldn't be poor if they weren't so stupid, lazy, and drunk.

[Ifreann]

3. Obama kind of gets what he deserves for going soft on Snowden and breaking his electoral promises (I like justice)...

He'll be facing quite the uphill battle if he stands for re-election.

---

america is going to hit the default button, making it an hell hole, then become an bureaucracy. sucks to be you guys.

THE AMERICA IS FALLING ANYTIME NOW GUISE THEIR GOVERNMENT SHUTDON ITS NEVER HABBENED BEFORE

LIBERTY IS RISING, THE REPUBLIC IS RISING, INFOWARS DOT COM

[Vault 1]

What's funny is that Hong Kong, with its population of 7 million, covers more people than Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, and Rhode Island combined.
In fact, its larger than 38 of the 50 US states.
It makes me wonder, what is a "local government"?

"I know it when I see it."
Mostly any government with jurisdiction over a limited area, part of a larger structure, with another tier of government above it.

Ideally, it's best if they are small. Hong Kong is actually quite close to the average size of US states, it's possibly larger than optimal, though you can't argue with the results.

Realistically, whatever we can get that is smaller than what we have now. US states are a division that is already there, with their own functioning governments that are mostly capable to easily overtake necessary federal functions as it is. Some of them like CA could definitely use breaking down, of course... but it's better than nothing.

[Norstal]

What's funny is that Hong Kong, with its population of 7 million, covers more people than Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, and Rhode Island combined.
In fact, its larger than 38 of the 50 US states.
It makes me wonder, what is a "local government"?

"I know it when I see it."

Oh cool, someone on NSG who has a plan for a new government based on raw feelings and emotions instead of logic. I'll put you over there right next to the communists and fascists.

Mostly any government with jurisdiction over a limited area, part of a larger structure, with another tier of government above it.

Ideally, it's best if they are small. Hong Kong is actually quite close to the average size of US states, it's possibly larger than optimal, though you can't argue with the results.

Realistically, whatever we can get that is smaller than what we have now. US states are a division that is already there, with their own functioning governments that are mostly capable to easily overtake necessary federal functions as it is. Some of them like CA could definitely use breaking down, of course... but it's better than nothing.

Are you Californian? Because if you're not, you can't say CA needs breaking down and then advocate for a small-government.

[Olthar]

Yes. Then I'll become Empress of Wisconsin and begin conquering neighboring states. Just try to protect the UP now, Michigan!

[Norstal]

Yes. Then I'll become Empress of Wisconsin and begin conquering neighboring states. Just try to protect the UP now, Michigan!

Being Empress of Wisconsin is like being the Empress of a garbage dump. *nods*

[Galloism]

What's funny is that Hong Kong, with its population of 7 million, covers more people than Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, and Rhode Island combined.
In fact, its larger than 38 of the 50 US states.
It makes me wonder, what is a "local government"?

"I know it when I see it."
Mostly any government with jurisdiction over a limited area, part of a larger structure, with another tier of government above it.

Ideally, it's best if they are small. Hong Kong is actually quite close to the average size of US states, it's possibly larger than optimal, though you can't argue with the results.

Realistically, whatever we can get that is smaller than what we have now. US states are a division that is already there, with their own functioning governments that are mostly capable to easily overtake necessary federal functions as it is. Some of them like CA could definitely use breaking down, of course... but it's better than nothing.

Thing is, if the Fed broke up, as a permanent shutdown/default would be equivalent to, all the state governments would become federal governments, as they would have no effective tier of government above them.

Then, by the definition above, the states shouldn't do anything because they're federal.

[Olthar]

Yes. Then I'll become Empress of Wisconsin and begin conquering neighboring states. Just try to protect the UP now, Michigan!

Being Empress of Wisconsin is like being the Empress of a garbage dump. *nods*

You. You will be the first to face our wrath. We will pummel you with cheese, beer bottles, and motorcycles!

[Ifreann]

Yes. Then I'll become Empress of Wisconsin and begin conquering neighboring states. Just try to protect the UP now, Michigan!

Being Empress of Wisconsin is like being the Empress of a garbage dump. *nods*

Which is where the conquering comes in.

[Vault 1]

But personally, I suspect that the OP would just love it if America were to become a Confederation again.

Why "suspect" when I openly stated that I support confederacy and consider it a better form of union for American States than federation?

None of that whole pesky "unified country" idea, America would be fifty independent States in all but name, with a "government" so weak that it couldn't even defend itself if needed.

It shouldn't. Who is there that the government might need to defend itself against, other than its own people?

Defense of the nation - which is what defense should be about - can be handled just as well by a mutual defense agreement. In fact, it's already handled that way by NATO, although a US-wide agreement would likely be further tighter.

[Sdaeriji]

"I know it when I see it."
Mostly any government with jurisdiction over a limited area, part of a larger structure, with another tier of government above it.

Ideally, it's best if they are small. Hong Kong is actually quite close to the average size of US states, it's possibly larger than optimal, though you can't argue with the results.

Realistically, whatever we can get that is smaller than what we have now. US states are a division that is already there, with their own functioning governments that are mostly capable to easily overtake necessary federal functions as it is. Some of them like CA could definitely use breaking down, of course... but it's better than nothing.

Thing is, if the Fed broke up, as a permanent shutdown/default would be equivalent to, all the state governments would become federal governments, as they would have no effective tier of government above them.

Then, by the definition above, the states shouldn't do anything because they're federal.

No matter how much we devolve the government, there will be a group of people who think we should go just one tier further.

[Dyakovo]

None of that whole pesky "unified country" idea, America would be fifty independent States in all but name, with a "government" so weak that it couldn't even defend itself if needed.

It shouldn't. Who is there that the government might need to defend itself against, other than its own people?

Foreign governments.

[The Emerald Legion]

But personally, I suspect that the OP would just love it if America were to become a Confederation again.

Why "suspect" when I openly stated that I support confederacy and consider it a better form of union for American States than federation?

None of that whole pesky "unified country" idea, America would be fifty independent States in all but name, with a "government" so weak that it couldn't even defend itself if needed.

It shouldn't. Who is there that the government might need to defend itself against, other than its own people?

Defense of the nation - which is what defense should be about - can be handled just as well by a mutual defense agreement. In fact, it's already handled that way by NATO, although a US-wide agreement would likely be further tighter.

We had a pretty big argument about this. The union won, burned the confederacy to the ground, and obliterated southern culture almost entirely.

I think the results speak for themselves.

[European Socialist Republic]

The OP has got it all wrong. One World, One Nation, One Chairman of the Communist Party!

[Olthar]

The OP has got it all wrong. One World, One Nation, One Chairman of the Communist Party! Empress of the Wisconsin World Empire!

*nods*

[Genivaria]

Are you high!?

[Draakonite]

It shouldn't. Who is there that the government might need to defend itself against, other than its own people?

Foreign governments.

I wonder which foreign government threatens today's USA.
Is mexico now able to wage war without importing weapons from the US?

[Genivaria]

Why "suspect" when I openly stated that I support confederacy and consider it a better form of union for American States than federation?


It shouldn't. Who is there that the government might need to defend itself against, other than its own people?

Defense of the nation - which is what defense should be about - can be handled just as well by a mutual defense agreement. In fact, it's already handled that way by NATO, although a US-wide agreement would likely be further tighter.

We had a pretty big argument about this. The union won, burned the confederacy to the ground, and obliterated southern culture almost entirely.

I think the results speak for themselves.

Not enough it seems.

[Genivaria]

Foreign governments.

I wonder which foreign government threatens today's USA.
Is mexico now able to wage war without importing weapons from the US?

Yes because if the US fragmented we'd still somehow maintain our level of strength.

[Olthar]

Foreign governments.

I wonder which foreign government threatens today's USA.
Is mexico now able to wage war without importing weapons from the US?

Mexico vs. Texas, Round 2.