Fascism: Good or Bad?

[Valariya]

To be honest, I believe that it has some good elements but most of it is bad.

what are the good elements because i don't think there anything good with facism

It promotes a kind of order which can lead to increased efficiency.

[Starkiller101]

what are the good elements because i don't think there anything good with facism

It promotes a kind of order which can lead to increased efficiency.

oh i guess that makes sense

[Valariya]

It promotes a kind of order which can lead to increased efficiency.

oh i guess that makes sense

Bear in mind, the means with which it achieves that order aren't particularly good ones.

[Verdum]

oh i guess that makes sense

Bear in mind, the means with which it achieves that order aren't particularly good ones.

Well, at least your not totally bashing the cause.
+1

[Souseiseki]

what are the good elements because i don't think there anything good with facism

It promotes a kind of order which can lead to increased efficiency.

massive emphasis on "can"

[Verdum]

It promotes a kind of order which can lead to increased efficiency.

massive emphasis on "can"

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

[Grenartia]

1. I don't have to assume anything, this is turning into something pointless.
2. Fascism has always entailed a one sided Fascism. The reverse Fascism was just a 'Meh' kind of thing. I don't have to put myself in another's shoes because, if I continue my ways, a Fascist society would and will benefit me.

1. Its not pointless at all. I sense a desire to dodge on your part, because you wish to avoid admitting the implications of your stance, which you realize upon deeper examination, will reveal that fascism is inherently inconsistent and shitty.

2. Nobody benefits from fascism. History proves that it all ends in the weeping and gnashing of teeth for all under it.

[Valariya]

It promotes a kind of order which can lead to increased efficiency.

massive emphasis on "can"

My post was not to promote fascism, but to promote that kind of order. Yes, massive emphasis on "can".

[Souseiseki]

massive emphasis on "can"

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

i'd be more worried about how the government was an absolute mess of inefficient competing suck-up-to-hitler-a-thons if you want to talk about WWII

i used to get a hard-on for revanchism and reclaiming the glorious elsass-lothringen when i was young too. you're giving me serious blasts to the past.

[Verdum]

1. I don't have to assume anything, this is turning into something pointless.
2. Fascism has always entailed a one sided Fascism. The reverse Fascism was just a 'Meh' kind of thing. I don't have to put myself in another's shoes because, if I continue my ways, a Fascist society would and will benefit me.

1. Its not pointless at all. I sense a desire to dodge on your part, because you wish to avoid admitting the implications of your stance, which you realize upon deeper examination, will reveal that fascism is inherently inconsistent and shitty.

2. Nobody benefits from fascism. History proves that it all ends in the weeping and gnashing of teeth for all under it.

It is to me, because theres a lot of "WHAT IF" in the situation. And the massive amounts of "WHAT IF" is seriously annoying.
I have to go now, be back in a bit.

[Grenartia]

oh i guess that makes sense

Bear in mind, the means with which it achieves that order aren't particularly good ones.

And the order can be achieved more ethically in other systems.

massive emphasis on "can"

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

Yes, the French totally deserved it. Let me guess, so did the Jews, Roma, blacks, handicapped, homosexuals, and dissenters?

1. Its not pointless at all. I sense a desire to dodge on your part, because you wish to avoid admitting the implications of your stance, which you realize upon deeper examination, will reveal that fascism is inherently inconsistent and shitty.

2. Nobody benefits from fascism. History proves that it all ends in the weeping and gnashing of teeth for all under it.

It is to me, because theres a lot of "WHAT IF" in the situation. And the massive amounts of "WHAT IF" is seriously annoying.
I have to go now, be back in a bit.

Hypotheticals are commonly used in debates on here, in order to prove a point.

[Valariya]

Bear in mind, the means with which it achieves that order aren't particularly good ones.

And the order can be achieved more ethically in other systems.

Again, I wasn't saying fascism is all good. It isn't. I was merely saying that there are *some* good points about it, which we should seriously look at and not just disregard as "it's part of fascism so it must be bad".

[The Nuclear Fist]

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

Except for the Soviets, of course. And the British. And the Americans.

[Divair]

massive emphasis on "can"

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

The fuck did I just read.

[The Nuclear Fist]

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

The fuck did I just read.

Fascism is great because the Germans beat the French (who obviously deserved it) and also beat up everyone else, except those times when that didn't happen. Just ignore the glaring inefficiencies and blatant corruption and idiocy in just about every aspect of the Nazi regime, and let's just pretend Mussolini's Italy didn't happen either.

[Vonver]

I recently visited the website of the now-disbanded Fascist Party of America. Fascism is most commonly associated with Nazism, even though the two concepts don't go hand-in-hand. However, there are some neat aspects to the fascist ideology: state before self, regulated (but free) market, healthy nationalist pride, etc.

So, what's everyone's take on the matter? Is fascism a system of oppression or liberation? Could it survive and thrive in a modern nation, or is it doomed to remain a relic of bygone ages? Is it a guiding beacon of what a state could be, or is it an ugly reminder of what it is only a few bad days away from becoming?

American fascism is commonly known as smiley face fascism, mainly because of the freedoms. But it is different in each country. Germany's take was oppressive.

[Katyuscha]

I can't say I'm a fan.

[Anarcos]

Power corrupts.
Since authority leads to corruption it is unnecessary and bad.
It could be good tho, but most likely not.

Look for Genocide and Mass Murder since 1900

[Grenartia]

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

Except for the Soviets, of course. And the British. And the Americans.

So many fascists seem to like to ignore fascist governments' track records.

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

The fuck did I just read.

The truth, obvs.

The fuck did I just read.

Fascism is great because the Germans beat the French (who obviously deserved it) and also beat up everyone else, except those times when that didn't happen. Just ignore the glaring inefficiencies and blatant corruption and idiocy in just about every aspect of the Nazi regime, and let's just pretend Mussolini's Italy didn't happen either.

Indeed.

[Anachronous Rex]

massive emphasis on "can"

It certainyl did in WW2, Hitler built a mighty army and decimated the French, who rightfully deserved it, and those who stood again'st the German Army.

So when Napoleon marched right through Germany, and on to Moscow which he actually succeeded at capturing (unlike a certain someone) that proves...

The Revolutionary Empire was efficient?

There's some sort of gap in that logic. I think you may need to rethink that.

[The USOT]

But it doesnt work, and thats the point.

It universally failed at all its objectives, and fails on the theoretical nevermind practical level.

It is akin to saying "radiation poisonin varies extremely in result. When it works, it is heroically spectacular. When it fails, the results give you cancer and skin rot."

Fascism saved Spain from descent into leftwing chaos. Germany was obviously a tragedy tho this was due to Nazism, which is different from regular fascism.
Putin is also implementing something interesting in Russia where an authoritarian government works to safeguard and advance a few key state sponsored industries in a capitalist atmosphere. It seems to be working thus far.

We can argue back and forth over whether Franco was fascist back and forth forever. His regime however isnt a great example of fascism both for its unfascist elements in many areas and the nationalists causing much of the leftwing chaos of the civil war. Dont forget it was the stupidity of the fascists which helped launch the civil war in the first place after their coup attempt. Causing chaos is not the greatest advertisement for fascism...

"Regular fascism" seems an odd concept to me. Mainly because as Mosley pointed out, fascism had different faces in different countries (e.g. Mosley subscribed to the idea that a british fascism would still maintain a democracy, being in line with the british national values and his stances were approved my Mussolini).

Authoritarian government with nationalist tendencies does not equate to fascism. Putin is not a fascist, and he would again be a terrible advertisement if he were one. Extreme corruption, violence from public gangs, rampant crime and international embarrasment do not a good advertisement make. There is more than one reason why russian fascist parties want a different dictator in charge...

[XY Inc]

Personally when it comes to Facism I like some aspects of it and disklike others.

Like
#Hatred of Marxists of all stripes.
#Opposition to parliamentary democracy.
#Conservative economic programs.
#Imperialism.
#Militarism.
#Social Darwinism.
#Patriotism.
#Mass mobilization.
#Extremism.
#Glorification of youth.
#Educational System that emphazies character building over intellectual growth.
#Violence.
#Glorification of war and violence.
#The “new man” Philosophy.
#Propaganda.
#Really Nice Uniforms.
#Revolutionary image.
#Genocide of opposition.
#Extreme nationalism (like that the nation acts independently rather than collectively, emphasizing international goals.
#Antiurbanism.
#Liberal gun laws.

Disklike
#Opposition to political and cultural liberalism.
#Sexism and misogyny.
#Hostile racism (when applicable).
#Antisemitism (when appilicable).
#Identification with Christianity. (I'm an Atheist).
#Subordination to the State.
#Struggle against “decadence.

[Utceforp]

Personally when it comes to Facism I like some aspects of it and disklike others.

Like
#Hatred of Marxists of striptes.
#Opposition to parliamentary democracy.
#Conservative economic programs.
#Imperialism.
#Militarism.
#Social Darwinism.
#Patriotism.
#Mass mobilization.
#Extremism.
#Glorification of youth.
#Educational System that emphazies character building over intellectual growth.
#Violence.
#Glorification of war and violence.
#The “new man” Philosophy.
#Propaganda.
#Really Nice Uniforms.
#Revolutionary image.
#Genocide of opposition.
#Extreme nationalism (like that the nation acts independently rather than collectively, emphasizing international goals.
#Antiurbanism.
#Liberal gun laws.

Disklike
#Opposition to political and cultural liberalism.
#Sexism and misogyny.
#Hostile racism (when applicable).
#Antisemitism (when appilicable).
#Identification with Christianity. (I'm an Atheist).
#Subordination to the State.
#Struggle against “decadence.

You're an atheist, and yet you believe in social Darwinism and are against education making people more intelligent?

Wut.

Also, there's the fact that you like Extremism, Militarism and genocide, but there's so many things wrong with this that I thought I should focus on specifics.

[Divair]

Personally when it comes to Facism I like some aspects of it and disklike others.

Like
#Hatred of Marxists of striptes.
#Opposition to parliamentary democracy.
#Conservative economic programs.
#Imperialism.
#Militarism.
#Social Darwinism.
#Patriotism.
#Mass mobilization.
#Extremism.
#Glorification of youth.
#Educational System that emphazies character building over intellectual growth.
#Violence.
#Glorification of war and violence.
#The “new man” Philosophy.
#Propaganda.
#Really Nice Uniforms.
#Revolutionary image.
#Genocide of opposition.
#Extreme nationalism (like that the nation acts independently rather than collectively, emphasizing international goals.
#Antiurbanism.
#Liberal gun laws.

Disklike
#Opposition to political and cultural liberalism.
#Sexism and misogyny.
#Hostile racism (when applicable).
#Antisemitism (when appilicable).
#Identification with Christianity. (I'm an Atheist).
#Subordination to the State.
#Struggle against “decadence.

You're an atheist, and yet you believe in social Darwinism and are against education making people more intelligent?

Wut.

Also, there's the fact that you like Extremism, Militarism and genocide, but there's so many things wrong with this that I thought I should focus on specifics.

Just cover your eyes and plug your ears. Maintain your sanity.

[Blasveck]

Personally when it comes to Facism I like some aspects of it and disklike others.

Like
#Hatred of Marxists of striptes.
#Opposition to parliamentary democracy.
#Conservative economic programs.
#Imperialism.
#Militarism.
#Social Darwinism.
#Patriotism.
#Mass mobilization.
#Extremism.
#Glorification of youth.
#Educational System that emphazies character building over intellectual growth.
#Violence.
#Glorification of war and violence.
#The “new man” Philosophy.
#Propaganda.
#Really Nice Uniforms.
#Revolutionary image.
#Genocide of opposition.
#Extreme nationalism (like that the nation acts independently rather than collectively, emphasizing international goals.
#Antiurbanism.
#Liberal gun laws.

Disklike
#Opposition to political and cultural liberalism.
#Sexism and misogyny.
#Hostile racism (when applicable).
#Antisemitism (when appilicable).
#Identification with Christianity. (I'm an Atheist).
#Subordination to the State.
#Struggle against “decadence.

Lets see. There's this....

And this.....

And....Fuck.

Everything is wrong here. Everything.