Fascism: Good or Bad?

[The Rising Sun Katana]

Fascism is FABULOUS! Especially when you accessorize with leather.

Quite disturbing. Quite disturbing indeed.

[Grenartia]

A primitive, shitty ideology based on fear mongering, hatred, and repression.

Fascism is bad, and its adherents should feel bad.

[Nevanmaa]

It's a valid ideology with its own share of flaws, like most ideologies. Its most major flaws are the fact that fascism supports a left-wing syndicalist economic system which is utterly out of date and not applicable in a modern society.

Fascists are also kings of awesome uniforms, flags and symbols

[Grenartia]

It's a valid ideology with its own share of flaws, like most ideologies. Its most major flaws are the fact that fascism supports a left-wing syndicalist economic system which is utterly out of date and not applicable in a modern society.

Fascists are also kings of awesome uniforms, flags and symbols

How the hell can you, a person who supposedly loves America, express any degree of support for that wholly un-American ideology while absolutely refusing to even consider the positives of non-authoritarian forms of socialism and social democracy that totally mesh in with American values?

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Personally, I think the whole left-right view of politics is broken. It's too constricting, and doesn't define the forms of governments well enough. Fascism supports economic control by the state, which can be viewed as a left policy, however it also supports limiting rights, which is more right.

Under fascism there are still privately owned means if production. And as Mussolini said:

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
~Benito Mussolini

The means of production were owned by the state through coercion instead of expropriation. That's rather leftist if you ask me. And corporatism is a centre-left ideology. Your perception of the left/right scale is overly shallow, and excludes the majority of ideologies from being 'leftist', for all except pure communism/socialism contain some degree of private ownership.

Regardless of your interpretation of leftism, fascism purports collectivism, statism and economic interventionism, all of which I abhor.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

It's a valid ideology with its own share of flaws, like most ideologies. Its most major flaws are the fact that fascism supports a left-wing syndicalist economic system which is utterly out of date and not applicable in a modern society.

Fascists are also kings of awesome uniforms, flags and symbols

What the fucking fuck Hippo?! I thought that shit was below you... I guess I was wrong.

And I do hope you're joking about the 'awesome flags and symbols'.

[Nevanmaa]

It's a valid ideology with its own share of flaws, like most ideologies. Its most major flaws are the fact that fascism supports a left-wing syndicalist economic system which is utterly out of date and not applicable in a modern society.

Fascists are also kings of awesome uniforms, flags and symbols

How the hell can you, a person who supposedly loves America, express any degree of support for that wholly un-American ideology while absolutely refusing to even consider the positives of non-authoritarian forms of socialism and social democracy that totally mesh in with American values?

Did I say that I support fascism? No, I did not. I said that it's a valid ideology with its flaws. Fascism is incompatible with American ideals due to its syndicalist left-wing economic policies, just like nearly all left-wing ideologies that are in conflict with Lockean ideas of life, liberty and property.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

How the hell can you, a person who supposedly loves America, express any degree of support for that wholly un-American ideology while absolutely refusing to even consider the positives of non-authoritarian forms of socialism and social democracy that totally mesh in with American values?

Did I say that I support fascism? No, I did not. I said that it's a valid ideology with its flaws. Fascism is incompatible with American ideals due to its syndicalist left-wing economic policies, just like nearly all left-wing ideologies that are in conflict with Lockean ideas of life, liberty and property.

Is socialism a valid ideology with its flaws?

[Yue-Laou]

Terrible ideology. We should oppose it by any means necessary.

[Nevanmaa]

It's a valid ideology with its own share of flaws, like most ideologies. Its most major flaws are the fact that fascism supports a left-wing syndicalist economic system which is utterly out of date and not applicable in a modern society.

Fascists are also kings of awesome uniforms, flags and symbols

What the fucking fuck Hippo?! I thought that shit was below you... I guess I was wrong.

And I do hope you're joking about the 'awesome flags and symbols'.

Once again, I did not say that I support. It's a valid ideology, just like christian democracy for example. That doesn't mean I support fascism or christian democracy.

And hell yes! Just look at WWII-era German uniforms, they're so damn beautiful and majestic. And just look at these damn eagles! Those are some pretty inspirational and majestic symbols, piles of tools used by communists can't compete with those.

Sure, fascist ideology is a bad ideology but their graphic and architectural design is something that we should still admire today.

[Nevanmaa]

Did I say that I support fascism? No, I did not. I said that it's a valid ideology with its flaws. Fascism is incompatible with American ideals due to its syndicalist left-wing economic policies, just like nearly all left-wing ideologies that are in conflict with Lockean ideas of life, liberty and property.

Is socialism a valid ideology with its flaws?

Yes, socialism is a valid ideology. That doesn't mean that it isn't an awful, tyrannic and immoral ideology that has no place in modern society.

[Grenartia]

How the hell can you, a person who supposedly loves America, express any degree of support for that wholly un-American ideology while absolutely refusing to even consider the positives of non-authoritarian forms of socialism and social democracy that totally mesh in with American values?

1. Did I say that I support fascism? No, I did not. I said that it's a valid ideology with its flaws. 2. Fascism is incompatible with American ideals due to its syndicalist left-wing economic policies, just like nearly all left-wing ideologies that are in conflict with Lockean ideas of life, liberty and property.

1. You did imply it.

2. Your conclusion is correct, but your reasoning is flawed. Its incompatible because its authoritarian, and rejects the ideas of life, liberty, and property (while non-authoritarian left-wing systems actively support those same Lockean ideas).

Is socialism a valid ideology with its flaws?

Yes, socialism is a valid ideology. That doesn't mean that it isn't an awful, tyrannic and immoral ideology that has no place in modern society.

Only if by "socialism" you are only referring to the authoritarian pseudo-socialist (though actually closer to fascist) hellholes known as the USSR and its puppet states.

Otherwise, you're wrong.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Is socialism a valid ideology with its flaws?

Socialism is a valid ideology...that has no place in modern society.

You're basically contradicting yourself here.

[Pensalum]

Socialism is a valid ideology...that has no place in modern society.

You're basically contradicting yourself here.

How is he contradicting himself? He says both Socialism and Fascism are valid ideologies, and they both have flaws.

[United British Union]

in Fascism sparked off killing sixty million people! I am all for (as a British Nationalist,) patriotism and critisising people, but to murder them in millions...
Hitler was a Fascist.
Mussolini was a Fascist.
Franco was a Fascist.
Lord Haw Haw was a Fascist.
Stalin acted like a Fascist.

[Verdum]

I live in Canada, and as you probably know Newfoundland used to be separate from us. Should Newfoundlanders care about everyone in Canada, or just the people in Newfoundland? If they shouldn't care about the rest of Canada, well, why doesn't every country split into its component parts? Should people in northern Greece ignore their southern citizens because they don't live in what was once Macedon? Should the people in Japan go back into warring shogunates? Okay, so maybe little countries can join together to form larger countries, and they should do their best to support the new, larger country. In this case, why can't every country in the world simply become one big country? Would that finally get you to care about other people?

Not really, since that would contravene most of the point of national pride.

If anything, it'd probably work similar to the US, where you have the pride and rivalries between the States, though the single distinct federal entity of the United States.

Good point.

[United British Union]

It's a valid ideology with its own share of flaws, like most ideologies. Its most major flaws are the fact that fascism supports a left-wing syndicalist economic system which is utterly out of date and not applicable in a modern society.

Fascists are also kings of awesome uniforms, flags and symbols

What the fucking fuck Hippo?! I thought that shit was below you... I guess I was wrong.

And I do hope you're joking about the 'awesome flags and symbols'.

I agree totally. How can you like something which is evil?!

[Grenartia]

in Fascism sparked off killing sixty million people! I am all for (as a British Nationalist,) patriotism and critisising people, but to murder them in millions...
Hitler was a Fascist.
Mussolini was a Fascist.
Franco was a Fascist.
Lord Haw Haw was a Fascist.
Stalin acted like a Fascist.

No, Stalin WAS a fascist. As were Mao, Kim Il-Sung, and Pol Pot, among others. Pretty much, any Warsaw Pact nation or other state modelled after and/or supported by the USSR, was fascist.

[Asteriapoli]

Fascism is ultimately oppressive and authoritarian, and will always lead to lives being lost. I completely disagree with their nationalism, xenophobia and hatred in general. That being said, I have to admit that certain aspects of their economic policies are not that bad. They reject class struggle and instead support a cross-class form of consensual pragmatism. That is, in theory at least - in practice I guess it just ends up being totalitarian and centralised in the hands of one man anyway. So I consider it to be maybe 85% bad.

Your understanding of Fascism is where mine was 2 years ago, in others words very poor.

Would you mind telling me exactly why? Sources for my statements can be Reappraisals of Fascism, book by Henry Ashby Turner, the book Channels of Power, and works by the Cambridge Univeristy Press. I describe fascism as populist, nationalist and corporatist. What the hell is "poor" about such a description? The Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni and the fascists' proposed unification of the nation under a single vanguard party and leader are the reasons why I claim that the fascist movement is cross-class. A prominent political party in my own country also has a fascist past, and I've been doing some research on their pre-war protectionism, corporatism and populism. Just calling someone's understanding of something poor for no apparent reason and without a single argument is not exactly constructive, and not in any way necessary.

[Nevanmaa]

What the fucking fuck Hippo?! I thought that shit was below you... I guess I was wrong.

And I do hope you're joking about the 'awesome flags and symbols'.

I agree totally. How can you like something which is evil?!

Symbols can't be evil, they are simply combinations of shapes.

Besides, evil is subjective.

[Draakonite]

What the fucking fuck Hippo?! I thought that shit was below you... I guess I was wrong.

And I do hope you're joking about the 'awesome flags and symbols'.

I agree totally. How can you like something which is evil?!

For the same reason we don't hate vegetarians.

in Fascism sparked off killing sixty million people! I am all for (as a British Nationalist,) patriotism and critisising people, but to murder them in millions...
Hitler was a Fascist.
Mussolini was a Fascist.
Franco was a Fascist.
Lord Haw Haw was a Fascist.
Stalin acted like a Fascist.

No, Stalin WAS a fascist. As were Mao, Kim Il-Sung, and Pol Pot, among others. Pretty much, any Warsaw Pact nation or other state modelled after and/or supported by the USSR, was fascist.

You like to throw around the word fascism, do you?

[Pensalum]

in Fascism sparked off killing sixty million people! I am all for (as a British Nationalist,) patriotism and critisising people, but to murder them in millions...
Hitler was a Fascist.
Mussolini was a Fascist.
Franco was a Fascist.
Lord Haw Haw was a Fascist.
Stalin acted like a Fascist.

No, Stalin WAS a fascist. As were Mao, Kim Il-Sung, and Pol Pot, among others. Pretty much, any Warsaw Pact nation or other state modelled after and/or supported by the USSR, was fascist.

I don't know if they were actually Fascists. I tend to describe them as Totalitarians under the false guise of Communism. They most definitely weren't Communists, but Fascism is a very different ideology from Communism.

[Verdum]

Fascism is FABULOUS! Especially when you accessorize with leather.

I believe gays aren't really welcome in most Fascist areas throughout history.

[Pensalum]

What the fucking fuck Hippo?! I thought that shit was below you... I guess I was wrong.

And I do hope you're joking about the 'awesome flags and symbols'.

I agree totally. How can you like something which is evil?!

Fascists and Nazis did have some powerful and profound symbolism. Just as the Communists had powerful symbols. The symbols aren't evil, it's what they represent that are. Humans usually look towards symbols as what they represent, and not what they are, which is why it's wrong to draw a swastika, despite the fact that it's just a shape.

[Verdum]

A primitive, shitty ideology based on fear mongering, hatred, and repression.

Fascism is bad, and its adherents should feel bad.

I don't feel bad at all.