Godly Dilemmas, Part I: The problem of suffering

[Anachronous Rex]

We shouldn't. It's perfect;y possible that the universe was created by a being who either doesn't know we exist or doesn't care that we do. However, an all-loving being this is not.

Well yeah. I mean that's why I find the Abrahamic God so childish. It really just comes off like the kid who is all, "My dad is a black belt! And a spy! With the biggest guns ever! And he'll totally beat up anybody who is mean to me! Also he drives a tank!"

Hey I have an idea: let's all worship Bottle's dad. He sounds cool.

[Starkiller101]

a deity might exist but i barley see any proof of one existing in the first place

[Bottle]

Well yeah. I mean that's why I find the Abrahamic God so childish. It really just comes off like the kid who is all, "My dad is a black belt! And a spy! With the biggest guns ever! And he'll totally beat up anybody who is mean to me! Also he drives a tank!"

Hey I have an idea: let's all worship Bottle's dad. He sounds cool.

Hey, if you want the playground description of my dad, he actually sounds pretty fucking amazing:

My dad is a mad scientist who can cut out your eyeballs and slice them up with his knife made of diamonds. He has a lab and lasers and a whole tank full of snapping turtles. Also he drives a Mazda.

Ok that last part falls a bit flat, but the rest is cool, right?

[Anachronous Rex]

Hey I have an idea: let's all worship Bottle's dad. He sounds cool.

Hey, if you want the playground description of my dad, he actually sounds pretty fucking amazing:

My dad is a mad scientist who can cut out your eyeballs and slice them up with his knife made of diamonds. He has a lab and lasers and a whole tank full of snapping turtles. Also he drives a Mazda.

Ok that last part falls a bit flat, but the rest is cool, right?

He rides around astride the God of Zoroastrianism? How could that not be cool?

[Liriena]

We shouldn't. It's perfect;y possible that the universe was created by a being who either doesn't know we exist or doesn't care that we do. However, an all-loving being this is not.

Well yeah. I mean that's why I find the Abrahamic God so childish. It really just comes off like the kid who is all, "My dad is a black belt! And a spy! With the biggest guns ever! And he'll totally beat up anybody who is mean to me! Also he drives a tank!"

Pretty much... except he was created by grown men with insanely bigoted ideas and the culture of a prodigious blobfish.

[God Kefka]

Here's one way to get out of this for the Christians.

Just come out and say... ''God is NOT technically omnipotent while He remains substantially more powerful than the sum total of all material and spiritual entities in the world combined.''

This way they get out with a watered answer in the vein of ''1) in the OP. God is impotent in SOME regards (such as stopping sin) BUT he's still the biggest bully in the playground by far?

Why is it important to insist on God's omnipotence? Isn't it enough that He's the biggest boy in the playground if that helps resolve a key logical challenge?

[Blasveck]

Here's one way to get out of this for the Christians.

Just come out and say... ''God is NOT technically omnipotent while He remains substantially more powerful than the sum total of all material and spiritual entities in the world combined.''

This way they get out with a watered answer in the vein of ''1) in the OP. God is impotent in SOME regards (such as stopping sin) BUT he's still the biggest bully in the playground by far?

Why is it important to insist on God's omnipotence? Isn't it enough that He's the biggest boy in the playground if that helps resolve a key logical challenge?

The problem is that the Bible claims that God is omnipotent.

God himself is quoted as saying such, IIRC.

[Liriena]

Here's one way to get out of this for the Christians.

Just come out and say... ''God is NOT technically omnipotent while He remains substantially more powerful than the sum total of all material and spiritual entities in the world combined.''

This way they get out with a watered answer in the vein of ''1) in the OP. God is impotent in SOME regards (such as stopping sin) BUT he's still the biggest bully in the playground by far?

Why is it important to insist on God's omnipotence? Isn't it enough that He's the biggest boy in the playground if that helps resolve a key logical challenge?

The problem is that the Bible claims that God is omnipotent.

God himself is quoted as saying such, IIRC.

And, really, the Catholic Church can only ad hoc so much before people begin to realize they are just sugar-coating morally reprehensible or blatantly false doctrine.

[Anachronous Rex]

Here's one way to get out of this for the Christians.

Just come out and say... ''God is NOT technically omnipotent while He remains substantially more powerful than the sum total of all material and spiritual entities in the world combined.''

This way they get out with a watered answer in the vein of ''1) in the OP. God is impotent in SOME regards (such as stopping sin) BUT he's still the biggest bully in the playground by far?

Why is it important to insist on God's omnipotence? Isn't it enough that He's the biggest boy in the playground if that helps resolve a key logical challenge?

The problem is that the Bible claims that God is omnipotent.

God himself is quoted as saying such, IIRC.

Yeah, but as the Bible itself establishes, God routinely makes shit up.

[Liriena]

The problem is that the Bible claims that God is omnipotent.

God himself is quoted as saying such, IIRC.

Yeah, but as the Bible itself establishes, God routinely makes shit up.

"I'll never exterminate the human species again... KIDDING! LOL!"

[Hathradic States]

And why should a God even care about us?

[NationalBolshevism]

Suffering, starvation, poverty, unemployment are all caused by the Satanic capitalists.
Our Father Karl Marx, his spiritual son Joseph Stalin and the holy Vladimir Lenin hold the answer to the problem of suffering.

The abolition of the class system, and the abolition of capitalism, solves the problem of suffering.

[Liriena]

Suffering, starvation, poverty, unemployment are all caused by the Satanic capitalists.
Our Father Karl Marx, his spiritual son Joseph Stalin and the holy Vladimir Lenin hold the answer to the problem of suffering.

The abolition of the class system, and the abolition of capitalism, solves the problem of suffering.

Stay on topic, please.

[Liriena]

And why should a God even care about us?

Don't think he should. Sadly, most of the world's religions are not that humble.

[Hathradic States]

And why should a God even care about us?

Don't think he should. Sadly, most of the world's religions are not that humble.

Most world religions are arrogant.

[God Kefka]

Here's one way to get out of this for the Christians.

Just come out and say... ''God is NOT technically omnipotent while He remains substantially more powerful than the sum total of all material and spiritual entities in the world combined.''

This way they get out with a watered answer in the vein of ''1) in the OP. God is impotent in SOME regards (such as stopping sin) BUT he's still the biggest bully in the playground by far?

Why is it important to insist on God's omnipotence? Isn't it enough that He's the biggest boy in the playground if that helps resolve a key logical challenge?

The problem is that the Bible claims that God is omnipotent.

God himself is quoted as saying such, IIRC.

We can simply excuse that by saying God was speaking figuratively, metaphorically, or using a hyperbole of some sort. =)

It takes a LOT of mental gymnastics to believe this stuff anyways... =)

[Blasveck]

The problem is that the Bible claims that God is omnipotent.

God himself is quoted as saying such, IIRC.

We can simply excuse that by saying God was speaking figuratively, metaphorically, or using a hyperbole of some sort. =)

It takes a LOT of mental gymnastics to believe this stuff anyways... =)

Not when the Bible literally says that it's God's Word.

An I find it ironic that you talk about mental gymnastics when just a few weeks or months ago you were essentially a Christofascist.

[God Kefka]

We can simply excuse that by saying God was speaking figuratively, metaphorically, or using a hyperbole of some sort. =)

It takes a LOT of mental gymnastics to believe this stuff anyways... =)

Not when the Bible literally says that it's God's Word.

An I find it ironic that you talk about mental gymnastics when just a few weeks or months ago you were essentially a Christofascist.

It's a better strategy to just admit that God is not omnipotent and omniscient (He makes mistakes from time to time)...

then to try and logically square these infinite and contradictory qualities and benevolence/moral perfection with the grim reality of evil-filled life.

It makes the hole slightly less problematic but it doesn't eliminate it...

[Blasveck]

Not when the Bible literally says that it's God's Word.

An I find it ironic that you talk about mental gymnastics when just a few weeks or months ago you were essentially a Christofascist.

It's a better strategy to just admit that God is not omnipotent and omniscient (He makes mistakes from time to time)...

then to try and logically square these infinite and contradictory qualities and benevolence/moral perfection with the grim reality of evil-filled life.

It makes the hole slightly less problematic but it doesn't eliminate it...

Then why the claims that God correctly predicts happenings and miracles?

Either he is omnipotent, or he isn't. There can't be any middle ground concerning a being of such magnitude.

And I notice that you ignored my second second point. That's very telling.

[Lost heros]

We can simply excuse that by saying God was speaking figuratively, metaphorically, or using a hyperbole of some sort. =)

It takes a LOT of mental gymnastics to believe this stuff anyways... =)

Not when the Bible literally says that it's God's Word.

An I find it ironic that you talk about mental gymnastics when just a few weeks or months ago you were essentially a Christofascist.

Logic is a wretched disease that spreads through the rational areas of the Internet. Some are immune to logic, but they hardly ever last.

[God Kefka]

It's a better strategy to just admit that God is not omnipotent and omniscient (He makes mistakes from time to time)...

then to try and logically square these infinite and contradictory qualities and benevolence/moral perfection with the grim reality of evil-filled life.

It makes the hole slightly less problematic but it doesn't eliminate it...

Then why the claims that God correctly predicts happenings and miracles?

Either he is omnipotent, or he isn't. There can't be any middle ground concerning a being of such magnitude.

And I notice that you ignored my second second point. That's very telling.

He can still predict happenings and miracles... but He's not omnipotent (or if He is ''omnipotent'' it's not ''omnipotent'' in the way we understand it).

It doesn't have to be a choice between a God who can do absolutely everything with no effort... and a God who can absolutely nothing. There's plenty of middle-ground variations... plenty of lawyering you can do with the Bible's vague text...

That's probably how the Christian lawyer should argue it...

Not that I would buy it but... it's less hopeless than trying to convince us that it makes logical sense that God can be omnipotent AND benevolent AND that evil exists you know?