Most Important and Influential River in Human History?

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Are you saying that the Native Americans didn't have civilization Trotsky? Damn, I certainly didn't expect that from you.

In his defense, Lakes Texcoco and Titicaca aren't exactly rivers, the other hidrological systems in Mexico and Peru weren't as significant, and citing the Colorado drainage basin is forcing too much.

[Trotskylvania]

Except it's really undeniable that the geography of the Nile, Indus, Yellow, Tigris and Euphrates were instrumental in allowing the creation of civilization itself, and that the anthropological record demonstrates civilization and its attributes radiating out from these areas, spreading memetically to less favorable geographies that lacked the resources to really create civilization from first principles, but could do so with a bit of added oomph from outside.

Are you saying that the Native Americans didn't have civilization Trotsky? Damn, I certainly didn't expect that from you.

Civilization is a social organizational system based around urbanization, division of labor, specialization and the existence of a social superstructure and government.

Most Native American groups, even if they had sedentary lifestyles and agriculture, didn't have these facets. Even the Mesoamerican and Andean civilizations developed along a very different pattern, in the absence of highly favorable river geographies. Their later development in the absence of analogs to the Tigris & Euphrates, etc., should highlight the difference I was suggesting in the previous post.

[Magna Libero]

The most important river in South America IMHO is neither the Amazonas nor the Orinoco, it is the Paraná-Paraguai drainage system.

I'm in doubt about Nile, Tigris-Euphrates, Indus or Yellow.

Surely Europe was completely irrelevant as civilization until a historically recent time, that Europeans suggest otherwise is as facepalm worthy as the people suggesting Mississipi. And even after it went significant, inheriting almost every start of a society reminescent of ours from the classical Middle East, the Greek civilization wasn't based around a river.

The Euphrate and the Tigris, who caused the development of farming.

Looking at Europe; the Rhine.

Except it's really undeniable that the geography of the Nile, Indus, Yellow, Tigris and Euphrates were instrumental in allowing the creation of civilization itself, and that the anthropological record demonstrates civilization and its attributes radiating out from these areas, spreading memetically to less favorable geographies that lacked the resources to really create civilization from first principles, but could do so with a bit of added oomph from outside.

Are you saying that the Native Americans didn't have civilization Trotsky? Damn, I certainly didn't expect that from you.

The [Northern] Native Americans didn't have an agricultural system. They hunted, mostly. However, the Aztects and people south of that did have some kind of agriculture.

[Shofercia]

Are you saying that the Native Americans didn't have civilization Trotsky? Damn, I certainly didn't expect that from you.

In his defense, Lakes Texcoco and Titicaca aren't exactly rivers, the other hidrological systems in Mexico and Peru weren't as significant, and citing the Colorado drainage basin is forcing too much.

I was referring to numerous Native American Cultures that thrived alongside the Mississippi.

[Magna Libero]

In his defense, Lakes Texcoco and Titicaca aren't exactly rivers, the other hidrological systems in Mexico and Peru weren't as significant, and citing the Colorado drainage basin is forcing too much.

I was referring to numerous Native American Cultures that thrived alongside the Mississippi.

And what did the Mississipian people contribute to other civilizations? (if you're arguing on if Mississippi is one of the most important rivers)

[Trotskylvania]

In his defense, Lakes Texcoco and Titicaca aren't exactly rivers, the other hidrological systems in Mexico and Peru weren't as significant, and citing the Colorado drainage basin is forcing too much.

I was referring to numerous Native American Cultures that thrived alongside the Mississippi.

They were sedentary, but if they were urban in a meaningful sense, it didn't last. Furthermore, they did not develop strong institutions of specialization and divisions of labor, nor is there any evidence for the existence of a social superstructure in the form of government, administrators, priesthoods, standing militaries, etc. They were ephemeral, and could have developed into a permanent recognizable civilization, but they ultimately disintegrated.

Whatever they were, their collapse was so complete that in a scarce amount of time, around one hundred fifty to two hundred years, none of the present inhabitants of the area knew anything about the people who had built the mounds, or what their civilization was like.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

I was referring to numerous Native American Cultures that thrived alongside the Mississippi.

They were sedentary, but if they were urban in a meaningful sense, it didn't last. Furthermore, they did not develop strong institutions of specialization and divisions of labor, nor is there any evidence for the existence of a social superstructure in the form of government, administrators, priesthoods, standing militaries, etc. They were ephemeral, and could have developed into a permanent recognizable civilization, but they ultimately disintegrated.

Whatever they were, their collapse was so complete that in a scarce amount of time, around one hundred fifty to two hundred years, none of the present inhabitants of the area knew anything about the people who had built the mounds, or what their civilization was like.

In essence this.

Even more irrelevant than the people on the river valleys of the desert on the Southwestern United States. Or, incredibly, the Tupí tribes.

[Priory Academy USSR]

It's obviously the Tyne.

[Nervium]

The Rubicon obviously.

Second being the Tigris and Eufrat because Mesopotamia.

[Great Kleomentia]

Euphrates and the Nile.
Also the Danube.

[Neo Prutenia]

Rhine has vastly different civilizations and cultures, Mesopotamia/China/India are all so similar

sure

keep on thinking that

You're free to try and convince me otherwise, although that's not what I said or implied. Are you perhaps sensitive about this issue?

There's no arguing that China is a monoculture, and has been such for thousands of years. It's the textbook definition of "uninterrupted political continuity", and both the Yangtze and Yellow River are relevant to China only. However, the Chinese civilisation and its values have not gone beyond their immediate neighbourhood, the Sinosphere. It's certainly a great contributor to human history and diversity, but on a global level, it has been outcompeted by other cultures.

India is a rather modern concept, barring a few early attempts to unify the sub-continent. Ashoka's Empire comes to mind. We could talk about a Hindu continuity and oikumene, and a unified Hindu monoculture, but it never achieved any particular success outside of its borders. Again, limited to its immediate neighbourhood. Plus, both Indian rivers run just through two countries each, India and Pakistan for the Indus, and India and Bangladesh for the Ganges. In addition, what do the local differences matter if they never managed to expose themselves and establish politically?

Mesopotamia certainly was a monoculture with shifting political regimes until it, like Egypt, was conquered by foreign political entities. In modern times, those two rivers go through three countries - Turkey, Syria, and Iraq, inc.

The Rhine is relevant to six countries, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Switzerland, and partially Austria and Lichtenstein. That's already more diversity than either of the six rivers mentioned above, and those came in pairs. How about we properly pair up the Rhine with the Danube over the Main? You'd have a connection from the North sea to the Black sea. Perhaps as pairs, the Indus/Ganges, Tigris/Euphrates etc can be candidates for most important/influential, but the Rhine can hold up to them alone.

[Farnhamia]

It's obviously the Tyne.

Nay, the Trent.

Why, if ’tis dancing you would be,
There’s brisker pipes than poetry.
Say, for what were hop-yards meant,
Or why was Burton built on Trent?

[L Ron Cupboard]

No Beatles fans going for the Mersey?

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

It's obviously the Tyne.

Nay, the Trent.

Why, if ’tis dancing you would be,
There’s brisker pipes than poetry.
Say, for what were hop-yards meant,
Or why was Burton built on Trent?

Breweries.

[Pacifornia]

Threeway tie between the Nile, Euphrates and Mississippi.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

The hell are Tyne, Rubicon and Mersey? -_-

Never heard of this.

[Farnhamia]

The hell are Tyne, Rubicon and Mersey? -_-

Never heard of this.

Wiki é sue amigo.

[Pacifornia]

The hell are Tyne, Rubicon and Mersey? -_-

Never heard of this.

Don't know about the first ones but the Mersey river is located in Northeastern England where Liverpool is, the hometown of the Beatles

[Zeganas]

I can name a few actually. Most are influential mainly to more recent history.

Nile
Mississippi
St Lawrence
River Thames
Panama Canal (if canals count)
Suez Canal (again)

[Nervium]

The hell are Tyne, Rubicon and Mersey? -_-

Never heard of this.

Rubicon is like that one river, that like that one dude crossed, and he said like, "alea iacta est", and then like became like this ruler, of this like city dude.

Mersey is the namegiver of the Mersey-beat, the music genre of the Beatles.

[The IASM]

Nile.

[Empire of Narnia]

Mississippi.

[Anollasia]

Euphrates

[Magna Libero]

The hell are Tyne, Rubicon and Mersey? -_-

Never heard of this.

Rubicon is like that one river, that like that one dude crossed, and he said like, "alea iacta est", and then like became like this ruler, of this like city dude.

Mersey is the namegiver of the Mersey-beat, the music genre of the Beatles.

"That one dude"...Right. Julius Caesar is spinning around in his grave.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I'd say the Euphrates and the Tigris.