20% of people in Mauritania are literally slaves right now

[Luveria]

It's all the fault of those pesky Europeans.
Just kidding. I'm surprised you even mentioned Islam.

You shouldn't be surprised by that. Christianity was used to justify slavery in the Southern US. It's no surprise people will come up with all kinds of justifications for oppression.

[Yue-Laou]

While it's bad, it's not the most pressing issue in africa today. The International community shouldn't do anything except sponsoring anti-slavery organisations, specifically sos-esclaves.

The problem is the Mauritanian government actively works to hinder the work of human rights organisations such as that.

It's africa, politicians come with price tag.
The main source of suffering in mauretanien/africa is still poverty, any economic sanctions will make the situation worse. I'm not convinced that simply freeing all those slaves will improve their lives, it takes more than that. They're still going to be social outcasts. There's hardly any point in freeing them if it doesn't make them better off.

[Luveria]

The problem is the Mauritanian government actively works to hinder the work of human rights organisations such as that.

It's africa, politicians come with price tag.
The main source of suffering in mauretanien/africa is still poverty, any economic sanctions will make the situation worse. I'm not convinced that simply freeing all those slaves will improve their lives, it takes more than that. They're still going to be social outcasts. There's hardly any point in freeing them if it doesn't make them better off.

Most slaves would be worse off if they were freed. Poverty is already crippling, and it's not like they can find a job. One of the main reasons for slavery is because the slaves depend on being slaves to survive.

Some slaves are released because their owners can't afford to keep them anymore. Those slaves are either forced to survive on their own when there is no chance of getting a job, or they can choose to become someone else's slave.

[The Serbian Empire]

The cost of recovering the oil might actually be lower than fracking, but the risk of Mauritania nationalizing any investments by foreign companies is too high for the companies to go in. You see, Mauritania had a coup d'etat not all that long ago.

So overall, it's more cost-effective and reliable to press forwards with fracking.

It's simply more reliable and Wall Street loves reliable and large profits.

[Luveria]

So overall, it's more cost-effective and reliable to press forwards with fracking.

It's simply more reliable and Wall Street loves reliable and large profits.

I wouldn't be much different if I owned an oil corporation, but at least I'm honest about it. Remember to vote Luveria.

[Norstal]

It's all the fault of those pesky Europeans.
Just kidding. I'm surprised you even mentioned Islam.

Wouldn't it be easy if all the problems in Africa and the Middle-East is because of Islam?

"I ran out of Pringles, Sahim."

"DAMN YOU ALLLLAHH!"

Unfortunately, I don't see the connection between slavery and the prevalence of Islam.

[Luveria]

It's all the fault of those pesky Europeans.
Just kidding. I'm surprised you even mentioned Islam.

Wouldn't it be easy if all the problems in Africa and the Middle-East is because of Islam?

"I ran out of Pringles, Sahim."

"DAMN YOU ALLLLAHH!"

Unfortunately, I don't see the connection between slavery and the prevalence of Islam.

The institution of slavery in Africa predates Islam.

[Distruzio]

It's all the fault of those pesky Europeans.
Just kidding. I'm surprised you even mentioned Islam.

You shouldn't be surprised by that. Christianity was used to justify slavery in the Southern US. It's no surprise people will come up with all kinds of justifications for oppression.

Fixed.

[The Serbian Empire]

It's simply more reliable and Wall Street loves reliable and large profits.

I wouldn't be much different if I owned an oil corporation, but at least I'm honest about it. Remember to vote Luveria.

And Canada is a lot more stable than Mauritania both politically and with that slavery issue in Mauritania leaving possible sanctions as always looming.

[Luveria]

You shouldn't be surprised by that. Christianity was used to justify slavery in the Southern US. It's no surprise people will come up with all kinds of justifications for oppression.

Fixed.

I specified Southern, because the Northern abolitionists were at the same time using Christianity to justify abolishing slavery. People can use their religion as an excuse for anything, good or bad.

I wouldn't be much different if I owned an oil corporation, but at least I'm honest about it. Remember to vote Luveria.

And Canada is a lot more stable than Mauritania both politically and with that slavery issue in Mauritania leaving possible sanctions as always looming.

With Harper in charge, frack away. That's how things are done in Canada.

[Quintium]

Unfortunately, I don't see the connection between slavery and the prevalence of Islam.

1. The Quran - taken to be protected from corruption by Allah - mentions, tolerates, endorses and regulates slavery, including sexual slavery;
2. Slavery has always been a big thing in the islamic world. It has existed on a very large scale for more than a milennium, and it would be safe to say the scale of it makes the European-regulated slave trade look insignificant;
3. Islamic countries were the last in the world to end the institution of slavery;
4. Slavery remains a major problem in many islamic countries today. Mauritania is one example, but it happens all over the place. Even in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, slavery exists, with people knowing it when they see it but not calling it out.

[Quintium]

The institution of slavery in Africa predates Islam.

Of course - yet, a century and a half after slavery was formally abolished in most of Africa, slavery still exists on a rather worrying scale throughout the Dar al Islam though not generally in the Dar al Harb.

[Xsyne]

So what will happen when the current Mauritanian govt. starts swimming in oil money. Will the West look the other way.

Mauritania has significant mineral deposits, in particular iron ore, gold and copper. Commercial oil reserves have been found offshore, adding to the reserves at the Chinguetti oil field discovered in 2001. Oil production started in February 2006; Mauritania's proven and probable crude oil reserves are estimated at around 600 million barrels and the sector is bound to have a significant share in the economy. In 2009, exports of natural resources accounted for roughly 80% of total export earnings (38% iron ore, 17% gold, 9% copper, 16% petroleum), and around 37% of GDP.

Above they talk about 600 million barrels of oil. But companies exploring have found an additional 400 million in another nearby site. Chances are there is much more oil in Mauritania.

One billion barrels is a completely trivial amount of oil. The U.S. alone uses more than that in just two months.

[Luveria]

The institution of slavery in Africa predates Islam.

Of course - yet, a century and a half after slavery was formally abolished in most of Africa, slavery still exists on a rather worrying scale throughout the Dar al Islam though not generally in the Dar al Harb.

And the US was the last non-Muslim country to abolish slavery. Does that indicate something about the US other than how slavery was a cultural problem?

[Quintium]

And the US was the last non-Muslim country to abolish slavery. Does that indicate something about the US other than how slavery was a cultural problem?

I'm not sure how that is relevant. If you have a dozen countries with this issue, with different cultures and traditions and socioeconomic situations, but with the same religion that endorses slavery, what do you think is the common denominator?

[Luveria]

And the US was the last non-Muslim country to abolish slavery. Does that indicate something about the US other than how slavery was a cultural problem?

I'm not sure how that is relevant. If you have a dozen countries with this issue, with different cultures and traditions and socioeconomic situations, but with the same religion that endorses slavery, what do you think is the common denominator?

Then it that case blame Christianity for how slavery was done by European nations.

[Quintium]

Then it that case blame Christianity for how slavery was done by European nations.

Can't say I do. Christian nations that engaged in slavery had another common denominator - overseas possessions with a demand for cheap labour. That's a specific reason for slavery to exist - not, as with Islam, throughout the time that Christianity existed, but during the time that European countries had overseas possessions in need of cheap labour. During the Middle Ages, and in European nations that did not have overseas possessions, slavery was extremely uncommon or even outlawed. Meanwhile, every area that saw the expansion of Islam has had problems with slavery ever since.

[The Serbian Empire]

So what will happen when the current Mauritanian govt. starts swimming in oil money. Will the West look the other way.



Above they talk about 600 million barrels of oil. But companies exploring have found an additional 400 million in another nearby site. Chances are there is much more oil in Mauritania.

One billion barrels is a completely trivial amount of oil. The U.S. alone uses more than that in just two months.

It's a lot when Mauritania's economy would pretty much double in size on the oil being recovered. That won't make them a Saudi Arabia, but will lift them from being just a couple hundred dollars in GDP per capita away from the tenth poorest in Africa.

[Genivaria]

Then it that case blame Christianity for how slavery was done by European nations.

Can't say I do. Christian nations that engaged in slavery had another common denominator - overseas possessions with a demand for cheap labour. That's a specific reason for slavery to exist - not, as with Islam, throughout the time that Christianity existed, but during the time that European countries had overseas possessions in need of cheap labour. During the Middle Ages, and in European nations that did not have overseas possessions, slavery was extremely uncommon or even outlawed. Meanwhile, every area that saw the expansion of Islam has had problems with slavery ever since.

That's called hypocrisy.

[Ayreonia]

Can't say I do. Christian nations that engaged in slavery had another common denominator - overseas possessions with a demand for cheap labour. That's a specific reason for slavery to exist - not, as with Islam, throughout the time that Christianity existed, but during the time that European countries had overseas possessions in need of cheap labour. During the Middle Ages, and in European nations that did not have overseas possessions, slavery was extremely uncommon or even outlawed. Meanwhile, every area that saw the expansion of Islam has had problems with slavery ever since.

That's called hypocrisy.

I think Quintium's point is that slavery practiced by European nations never had roots in religion, as opposed to Islamic countries.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

So gold, iron, fish, and..wait.. Molluscs?

Snails.

Squids and octopus, too.

[Ayreonia]

Snails.

Squids and octopus, too.

Octopus?

Octopuses?

Octopi?

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

Squids and octopus, too.

Octopus?

Octopuses?

Octopi?

Polvos, obviamente.

[Ayreonia]

Octopus?

Octopuses?

Octopi?

Polvos, obviamente.

Ei! Mustekaloja.

[Quintium]

That's called hypocrisy.

1. I am not a Christian, so the worst you could do is accuse me of having a double standard;
2. I explained why I think Islam is a primary cultural causal factor for this issue; if you disagree, feel free to explain your position, but don't just accuse me of hypocrisy.