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A Critique of NS Moderation Policy

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Delmonte
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Founded: Oct 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Delmonte » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:53 pm

Seperates wrote:
Delmonte wrote:At some point when rules become complex enough, rulings via precedent are called for.

How would these precedents be saved?

Would they be public information or mod-access only?

If they were public information would ignorance of precedence count towards innocence?

As it stands, mod rulings are public knowledge. Ignorance of the rules does not count towards innocence as far as I know. So none of that would change. It's really just about codification and consistency. So if someone had violated a certain rule once and a certain ruling was given, that ruling would guide future rulings. I would like to see some other things codified. For instance, you have a right to defend yourself if you are reported, but you may not have the opportunity to. People who report are not required to inform the person they report that they are being accused of an offense and time isn't necessarily given for them to speak on their own behalf. It just doesn't sit right with me. We could stand to have outlined procedure as to how you can defend yourself and that procedure ought to allow for a period for you to do so and, hopefully, make it so that someone would inform them they were being reported ffs. As it stands, I just do a search for my name in Moderation every once in a while. Only way I can think of to keep up on it.
Last edited by Delmonte on Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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TaQud
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Ex-Nation

Postby TaQud » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:53 pm

Divair wrote:
Falapatorius wrote:@DesAnges: So this is the Glorious Revolution 2.0? :lol:

Glorious Revolution 1.2: "Just an Update"

Hopefully a better update than iOS 7 :unsure:
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Bezombia
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Founded: Apr 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bezombia » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:53 pm

Dakini wrote:
Bezombia wrote:I visit another forum called GameFAQs. It's massive, and mod abuse is fairly rampant.

But the difference between that forum and this one is that the mod abuse there is completely perpetual. Everyone knows that everyone's days are numbered that that there isn't much they can do about it. Even the mods know this.
That isn't the case here. On GameFAQs basically everyone hates the mods and most of the mods hate the community. That isn't the case here. Shit isn't going to change here because even though we're such a close knit community (well...the regulars know the regulars) the moderation staff still isn't doing jack shit about our concerns.

I can think of at least one mod who has made it clear that they do not care for the community.


Here?

Which one?

TG me.
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Beta Test
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Founded: Jan 06, 2013
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Postby Beta Test » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:53 pm

Dakini wrote:
Bezombia wrote:I visit another forum called GameFAQs. It's massive, and mod abuse is fairly rampant.

But the difference between that forum and this one is that the mod abuse there is completely perpetual. Everyone knows that everyone's days are numbered that that there isn't much they can do about it. Even the mods know this.
That isn't the case here. On GameFAQs basically everyone hates the mods and most of the mods hate the community. That isn't the case here. Shit isn't going to change here because even though we're such a close knit community (well...the regulars know the regulars) the moderation staff still isn't doing jack shit about our concerns.

I can think of at least one mod who has made it clear that they do not care for the community.

Who? If your going to say things like that you should be completely honest.
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Divair
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Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:54 pm


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Beta Test
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Ex-Nation

Postby Beta Test » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:55 pm



Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.
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Mad Jack
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:57 pm

Beta Test wrote:


Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

Jenrak: II.

Ard: WAGA

Sedge, CG, Blaat: Gameplay

Arch: Sports/NSG

DLN: NS/NSG

Nervun, Farn: NSG

We've had forum specific mods for years...
Where is Someone Special?
<@Unibot> I don't care about defender unity.

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Lost heros
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Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:57 pm

Beta Test wrote:


Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

I'm pretty sure we have forum specific mods.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


You can send me a TG. I won't mind.

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Franklin Delano Bluth
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Founded: Apr 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Franklin Delano Bluth » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:57 pm

Dakini wrote:
Bezombia wrote:I visit another forum called GameFAQs. It's massive, and mod abuse is fairly rampant.

But the difference between that forum and this one is that the mod abuse there is completely perpetual. Everyone knows that everyone's days are numbered that that there isn't much they can do about it. Even the mods know this.
That isn't the case here. On GameFAQs basically everyone hates the mods and most of the mods hate the community. That isn't the case here. Shit isn't going to change here because even though we're such a close knit community (well...the regulars know the regulars) the moderation staff still isn't doing jack shit about our concerns.

I can think of at least one mod who has made it clear that they do not care for the community.


This thread made that abundantly clear.

They're only interested in the power-trip.
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Delmonte
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Founded: Oct 02, 2012
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Postby Delmonte » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:58 pm

Beta Test wrote:


Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

It seems kind of silly to me. There are only a few rules that are really open to interpretation. For instance, should truly held beliefs be considered trolling all the time? Well there goes the 20% of the community that's ancap and ancom.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Beta Test
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Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Beta Test » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:58 pm

Mad Jack wrote:
Beta Test wrote:
Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

Jenrak: II.

Ard: WAGA

Sedge, CG, Blaat: Gameplay

Arch: Sports/NSG

DLN: NS/NSG

Nervun, Farn: NSG

We've had forum specific mods for years...


Where did you get that list from?
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Michael Ferreira: President of the Senate
Philip Awad: Former Secretary of Rural Development

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Todlichebujoku
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Founded: Feb 24, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Todlichebujoku » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:59 pm

Mad Jack wrote:
Beta Test wrote:
Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

Jenrak: II.

Ard: WAGA

Sedge, CG, Blaat: Gameplay

Arch: Sports/NSG

DLN: NS/NSG

Nervun, Farn: NSG

We've had forum specific mods for years...

Hmph. No F7 mods.
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Divair
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Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:59 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Beta Test wrote:
Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

It seems kind of silly to me. There are only a few rules that are really open to interpretation. For instance, should truly held beliefs be considered trolling all the time? Well there goes the 20% of the community that's ancap and ancom.

It's not the beliefs. It's how they're posted.

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Falapatorius
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Founded: Sep 28, 2013
Anarchy

Postby Falapatorius » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:00 pm

u wot m8


Sorry about that. I meant I was kidding around.

I've got to admit the traffic here is brisk. Gonna take some adjusting. :blush:

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Mad Jack
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Posts: 978
Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:00 pm

Beta Test wrote:
Mad Jack wrote:Jenrak: II.

Ard: WAGA

Sedge, CG, Blaat: Gameplay

Arch: Sports/NSG

DLN: NS/NSG

Nervun, Farn: NSG

We've had forum specific mods for years...


Where did you get that list from?

Knowledge of the mods and watching them work.
Todlichebujoku wrote:Hmph. No F7 mods.

Trans.
Where is Someone Special?
<@Unibot> I don't care about defender unity.

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Beta Test
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Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Beta Test » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:02 pm

Mad Jack wrote:
Beta Test wrote:
Where did you get that list from?

Knowledge of the mods and watching them work.
Todlichebujoku wrote:Hmph. No F7 mods.

Trans.

That's an assumption really. It's not official.
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Michael Ferreira: President of the Senate
Philip Awad: Former Secretary of Rural Development

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Lost heros
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Posts: 9622
Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:02 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Beta Test wrote:
Forum specific mods was something I was going to suggest. It would definitely make moderation more efficient.

It seems kind of silly to me. There are only a few rules that are really open to interpretation. For instance, should truly held beliefs be considered trolling all the time? Well there goes the 20% of the community that's ancap and ancom.

I'm pretty sure it's only trolling when the stance is made to incite anger. So truly held beliefs are not considered actionable unless they exist because it makes another poster angry. But I could be completely wrong.
Last edited by Lost heros on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


You can send me a TG. I won't mind.

"The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot." - Salvador Dali

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Lost heros
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Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 pm

Beta Test wrote:
Mad Jack wrote:Knowledge of the mods and watching them work.
Trans.

That's an assumption really. It's not official.

It may as well be.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


You can send me a TG. I won't mind.

"The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot." - Salvador Dali

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Delmonte
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Founded: Oct 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Delmonte » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:04 pm

Lost heros wrote:
Delmonte wrote:It seems kind of silly to me. There are only a few rules that are really open to interpretation. For instance, should truly held beliefs be considered trolling all the time? Well there goes the 20% of the community that's ancap and ancom.

I'm pretty sure it's only trolling when the stance is made to incite anger. So truly held beliefs are not considered actionable unless they exist because it makes another poster angry. But I could be completely wrong.

I am ninety percent sure that I read in the rules that something can still be trolling if the poster holds that as an actual belief. I think they used something about the Holocaust as an example. I can find it if you don't believe me.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Mad Jack
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Posts: 978
Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:04 pm

Beta Test wrote:
Mad Jack wrote:Knowledge of the mods and watching them work.
Trans.

That's an assumption really. It's not official.

Which is a good thing.

By stating a mod is 'x mod' or 'y mod' you open them up to people telling them to get back to 'x forum' or 'y forum'.
Where is Someone Special?
<@Unibot> I don't care about defender unity.

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Verdum
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Founded: Aug 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Verdum » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:05 pm

It also doesn't help that if you have a conversation about something not OMG DIRECTLY RELATED to the OOC topic you are a apart of its considered spamming.
Wop wop wooop....

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Seperates
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Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:05 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Seperates wrote:How would these precedents be saved?

Would they be public information or mod-access only?

If they were public information would ignorance of precedence count towards innocence?

As it stands, mod rulings are public knowledge. Ignorance of the rules does not count towards innocence as far as I know. So none of that would change. It's really just about codification and consistency. So if someone had violated a certain rule once and a certain ruling was given, that ruling would guide future rulings. I would like to see some other things codified. For instance, you have a right to defend yourself if you are reported, but you may not have the opportunity to. People who report are not required to inform the person they report that they are being accused of an offense and time isn't necessarily given for them to speak on their own behalf. It just doesn't sit right with me. We could stand to have outlined procedure as to how you can defend yourself and that procedure ought to allow for a period for you to do so and, hopefully, make it so that someone would inform them they were being reported ffs. As it stands, I just do a search for my name in Moderation every once in a while. Only way I can think of to keep up on it.

Codified in a different sense than it already is?

And I agree, every wo/man should have their day in court. But I am simply wondered about the organizational strategy of it.
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Souseiseki
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Posts: 19622
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:05 pm

Mad Jack wrote:
Beta Test wrote:That's an assumption really. It's not official.

Which is a good thing.

By stating a mod is 'x mod' or 'y mod' you open them up to people telling them to get back to 'x forum' or 'y forum'.

honestly, maybe they should. you want generalites who don't give a shit about roleplay moderating gameplay?

but maybe this is just me getting annoyed at mods who i never see post mysteriously popping up out of nowhere
Last edited by Souseiseki on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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The Corparation
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Posts: 34105
Founded: Aug 31, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Corparation » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:05 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Lost heros wrote:I'm pretty sure it's only trolling when the stance is made to incite anger. So truly held beliefs are not considered actionable unless they exist because it makes another poster angry. But I could be completely wrong.

I am ninety percent sure that I read in the rules that something can still be trolling if the poster holds that as an actual belief. I think they used something about the Holocaust as an example. I can find it if you don't believe me.

Its not the belief itself that determines if its trolling. How they phrase the belief is the deciding factor. To paraphrase MAx, they're allowed to have silly opinions and we're allowed to try and correct those opinions.
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Bezombia
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Posts: 29250
Founded: Apr 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Bezombia » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:06 pm

Verdum wrote:It also doesn't help that if you have a conversation about something not OMG DIRECTLY RELATED to the OOC topic you are a apart of its considered spamming.
Wop wop wooop....


^^This guy's seen some serious shit.
Our weary eyes still stray to the horizon...but down this road we've been so many times...
Please, call me Benomia. Post count +14623, founded Oct. 23, 2012.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
Verdum wrote:Hey girl, is your name Karl Marx? Because your starting an uprising in my lower classes.
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Spreewerke wrote:The metric system is the only measurement system that truly meters.
Spreewerke wrote:Salt the women, rape the earth.
Equestican wrote:Ben is love, Ben is life.
Sediczja wrote:real eyes realize real lies
I'm a poet. Come read my poems!

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