A Critique of NS Moderation Policy

[Divair]

If this is a game where we can make every kind of nation we want, why we cannot use swastikas? I am going to make a WA proposal about this.

The WA doesn't determine the rules.

[Esternial]

Okey.

First point.

The current Moderation staff isn't perfect. I think we can all agree on that. They're only human, they're not infallible and both we and they should be willing too admit that everyone makes mistakes. Not often have I seen a Mod actually apologise for any mistake on their part, but every time they do I very much appreciate their honesty. If you make a mistake, own up to it. This counts for everyone on this board. Debaters, RP'ers and Moderation staff members. It's hard to admit a mistake, and being able to admit mistakes shows a lot of character. What you guys should remember is that you don't have to put yourself out there as some kind of paragon. You're only human.

Second point.

Our current playerbase isn't perfect. That's almost painfully obvious. Many refrain from reporting possible infractions because we're either too lazy, don't care enough or some other excuse. Honestly, that annoys me. This isn't about "snitching". This place isn't high school, nor an Italian Mafia. If we co-operate with the people that are tasked with enforcing the rules, we'd have less reason to complain, especially because our cause for complaint partly lies with ourselves. What we should remember is that going against the tide and being stubborn doesn't help the Moderation staff one bit. Complaining is easy to do, but it's not just the Mod staff that has to make an effort here. Co-operation is a vital part to sustaining a community. Act like a community.

[DesAnges]

You tell me

So, if the post said Japanese instead of Jap would Japanese be a slur for... Japanese?

If the propaganda men had used Japanese instead of Jap then highly possible.

[Luveria]

agreed its like "Paki"

I don't find Paki insulting either

So if someone called you a Wog, you wouldn't find that insulting at all?

[Nightkill the Emperor]

I don't find Paki insulting either

Could that be perhaps because you're not Pakistani, Indian or Bangaldeshi?

Admittedly, though this can be influenced by how I'm not British, I find the word amusing rather than insulting. But a British Asian may disagree with me there.

[Dakini]

Well, depends on where you are, really. Might be just me, but I've noted it used in Europe without pejorative intent, same way I hear "Negro" used without pejorative intent in some areas.

I tend to refrain from using those slang terms and others because bothering to explain the intent is too much trouble.

I didn't know it was a slur till someone here told me.
And God damnit I really need to start watching Breaking Bad...

And then after being informed that it was a slur, you continue to deny that it is a slur and continue to use it.

[Luveria]

I didn't know it was a slur till someone here told me.
And God damnit I really need to start watching Breaking Bad...

And then after being informed that it was a slur, you continue to deny that it is a slur and continue to use it.

"I know it's a slur to call black people niggers, but I don't find it offensive, so what's the problem?"

[Esternial]

No.

Actually, he has a point..

No he doesn't. I know you enjoy trolling the interwebs - you've even admitted it - but go do that elsewhere.

[Farnhamia]

If this is a game where we can make every kind of nation we want, why we cannot use swastikas? I am going to make a WA proposal about this.

The short answer is, displaying swastikas is illegal in some countries where some of our players live. Allowing them might lead to the site being banned in those countries.

[The Alexanderians]

I don't find Paki insulting either

mean either unless its somebody is saying it to abuse someone

Hey, I'm a "Ruskie" and a "Yank" I find neither to be inherently insulting. It's all about how you use a word that makes it an insult. He did say he was unaware of it being a slur so...

[Rabopari]

If this is a game where we can make every kind of nation we want, why we cannot use swastikas? I am going to make a WA proposal about this.

i agree yet you can make your nation islamophobic

[Delmonte]

If this is a game where we can make every kind of nation we want, why we cannot use swastikas? I am going to make a WA proposal about this.

The short answer is, displaying swastikas is illegal in some countries where some of our players live. Allowing them might lead to the site being banned in those countries.

If you are referring to Germany, the ban is specifically against displaying the Swastika as a show of Nazi sympathy. It is fine when used for creative purposes, which is why Iron Skies was allowed to air in Germany, for instance.

[DesAnges]

Could that be perhaps because you're not Pakistani, Indian or Bangaldeshi?

Admittedly, though this can be influenced by how I'm not British, I find the word amusing rather than insulting. But a British Asian may disagree with me there.

Well it depends on the context. I'm friends with a 3rd generation British Pakistani and I've known him to laugh the word off, albeit in some particular farcical circumstances.

On other occasions I imagine that would be different.

[Luveria]

mean either unless its somebody is saying it to abuse someone

Hey, I'm a "Ruskie" and a "Yank" I find neither to be inherently insulting. It's all about how you use a word that makes it an insult. He did say he was unaware of it being a slur so...

It doesn't change that Jap and Paki are slurs. Being ignorant about it being a slur doesn't make it stop being a slur.

[Delmonte]

If this is a game where we can make every kind of nation we want, why we cannot use swastikas? I am going to make a WA proposal about this.

i agree yet you can make your nation islamophobic

I hardly think that having a nation be afraid of Muslims is far-fetched. Especially given that plenty of RL nations are terrified of Muslims with varying degrees of validity. For instance, if someone were to, I don't know, roleplay as an Armenian nation...?

[Farnhamia]

The short answer is, displaying swastikas is illegal in some countries where some of our players live. Allowing them might lead to the site being banned in those countries.

If you are referring to Germany, the ban is specifically against displaying the Swastika as a show of Nazi sympathy. It is fine when used for creative purposes, which is why Iron Skies was allowed to air in Germany, for instance.

And I'm sure all the players who periodically complain about the ban he would be doing it for "creative purposes." If the ban seems harsh, it's better to err on the side of caution with something like this. That's not the topic, however, I was merely offering an explanation.

[Esternial]

Admittedly, though this can be influenced by how I'm not British, I find the word amusing rather than insulting. But a British Asian may disagree with me there.

Well it depends on the context. I'm friends with a 3rd generation British Pakistani and I've known him to laugh the word off, albeit in some particular farcical circumstances.

On other occasions I imagine that would be different.

I strongly support only reporting things you actually find offensive.

If someone says a slur like "Paki", then I'm not particularly offended. It may be offensive to a Pakistani, but if so then they should report it. Reporting things only other people may find offensive doesn't make much sense if you think about it.

[Rabopari]

If you are referring to Germany, the ban is specifically against displaying the Swastika as a show of Nazi sympathy. It is fine when used for creative purposes, which is why Iron Skies was allowed to air in Germany, for instance.

And I'm sure all the players who periodically complain about the ban he would be doing it for "creative purposes." If the ban seems harsh, it's better to err on the side of caution with something like this. That's not the topic, however, I was merely offering an explanation.

its strange. You can't have a nazi flag yet you can have a flag of israel

[Tadmirtolia]

If this is a game where we can make every kind of nation we want, why we cannot use swastikas? I am going to make a WA proposal about this.

The short answer is, displaying swastikas is illegal in some countries where some of our players live. Allowing them might lead to the site being banned in those countries.

You could ban swastikas for only those countries; also I would like an option to hide and show swastikas in the settings menu; if every flag is verified already, it would be easy to implement.

[Luveria]

Well it depends on the context. I'm friends with a 3rd generation British Pakistani and I've known him to laugh the word off, albeit in some particular farcical circumstances.

On other occasions I imagine that would be different.

I strongly support only reporting things you actually find offensive.

If someone says a slur like "Paki", then I'm not particularly offended. It may be offensive to a Pakistani, but if so then they should report it. Reporting things only other people may find offensive doesn't make much sense if you think about it.

That's why no one reported DrakoBlaria's use of the slur "Jap".

[Delmonte]

If you are referring to Germany, the ban is specifically against displaying the Swastika as a show of Nazi sympathy. It is fine when used for creative purposes, which is why Iron Skies was allowed to air in Germany, for instance.

And I'm sure all the players who periodically complain about the ban he would be doing it for "creative purposes." If the ban seems harsh, it's better to err on the side of caution with something like this. That's not the topic, however, I was merely offering an explanation.

And I was pointing out that Swastikas on NationStates would not fall under prohibited usage in Germany because they are not being displayed to rally Nazi sympathy. The laws are rather clear on that. Nobody is banned from having Swastikas in movies, articles, or books. I would be shocked if NationStates did not fall under that umbrella of protection.

[Farnhamia]

And I'm sure all the players who periodically complain about the ban he would be doing it for "creative purposes." If the ban seems harsh, it's better to err on the side of caution with something like this. That's not the topic, however, I was merely offering an explanation.

its strange. You can't have a nazi flag yet you can have a flag of israel

Life is strange. Enough on this, the Nazi flag thing is not Moderation policy, its site policy and as such not really open for discussion. Not here, anyway, in this thread.

[Divair]

The short answer is, displaying swastikas is illegal in some countries where some of our players live. Allowing them might lead to the site being banned in those countries.

You could ban swastikas for only those countries; also I would like an option to hide and show swastikas in the settings menu; if every flag is verified already, it would be easy to implement.

No it wouldn't. There's no possible software that could ever recognize every possible modification a user could make to a swastika flag. All it would take is a minor edit and it bypasses whatever filter is created.

[Esternial]

I strongly support only reporting things you actually find offensive.

If someone says a slur like "Paki", then I'm not particularly offended. It may be offensive to a Pakistani, but if so then they should report it. Reporting things only other people may find offensive doesn't make much sense if you think about it.

That's why no one reported DrakoBlaria's use of the slur "Jap".

Aye. If nobody actually takes offence, it's not your job to play the "Protector of all Japanese forum dwellers".

[Delmonte]

And I'm sure all the players who periodically complain about the ban he would be doing it for "creative purposes." If the ban seems harsh, it's better to err on the side of caution with something like this. That's not the topic, however, I was merely offering an explanation.

its strange. You can't have a nazi flag yet you can have a flag of israel

This has been addressed before. The Nazi flag, as I recall, is banned because there is a stigma attached to it. Farnhamia's bit about it being illegal in some countries (I'm positive that it is not in this context) is news to me. Stop complaining. We can still use Turkish flags too.