War on Christmas

[Warp Dwellers]

In case no one saw my question at the end. I believe Deism is a branch of Christianity anyways, yes?

Deism, unless I'm mistaken, is mutually exclusive from Christianity.

[Urzamalandi]

The assumption that you have to give gifts to a certain ammount of people in your life (which is deemed different according to each person ), is an assumption i don't like.

its traditionally done, you don't have to play much like you don't have to come to my Birthday party

I dont want gifts, people choose to get me gifts year on year despite my pleas against it

because they wov you dawwww

be the evil scrooge sitting in the corner who everyone else spent time buying gifts for but was too inconciderate to bother himself...

give people booze or something else you can also get fun out of (like some cheap anal lube for your sisters boyfriend)

...

er anyway like I said you do so to be polite its not consumerism its simply your British-ness

The 25th of December is a great day to enjoy your closest family and/or friends company, the religious and consumeristic connotations shouldn't be forced on people as a prerequisite for enjoying the holiday.

you ever tried to have fun without spending any money? after about 5 it sorta gets old

I on the lube comment. How did you know i am British (glad to be out of the UK now though)... Spending a little money is usually required to have fun, drugs and alcohol arn't free sadly, although a bit of ladies and gentlemen... or gentlemen and gentlement... or ladies and ladies, is free.. usually

I'll be buying everyone alcohol for christmas this year!

[Maurepas]

In case no one saw my question at the end. I believe Deism is a branch of Christianity anyways, yes?

Not really, Deism makes a point of accepting anyone of any faith, only stipulating a belief in a God of some sort...
And here's a source on the Founding Fathers' Deism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist#Deism_in_the_United_States

[Pevisopolis]

[response to OP]

Isn't it a bit early to b talking about this? I mean, at least get your ass into December before going off on Christmas.

The US Christmas season starts on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving,

Exactly what I'm referring to. The "Christmas Season" should at least start sometime closer to its respective holiday.

[Maurepas]

I think the media probably does it for similar reasons...

A) the "debate" itself, generates alot of ratings, so if you fabricate a mass controversy about it every year, more people watch...

and B) the off chance that they'll lose the 0.00001%'s almighty Rating...

As always, its about the Money,

I don't think it's really to do with that. Or it may be for the top elite, but the people actually creating and presenting the media and influencing culture genuinely believe in what they are doing, I feel.

Maybe its a UK/US disconnect thing...as the Media in the US is entirely privatized, so thats how it almost always ends up here, for everyone involved...

[Maurepas]

[response to OP]

Isn't it a bit early to b talking about this? I mean, at least get your ass into December before going off on Christmas.

The US Christmas season starts on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving,

Exactly what I'm referring to. The "Christmas Season" should at least start sometime closer to its respective holiday.

Eh, it doesnt bother me, I quite like the Christmas atmosphere myself, despite being an Atheist...

[Wilgrove]

No, George Washington I know was a Christian. Take a look at his Thanksgiving adress. He says "Almighty God" a few times in there along with other Christian refrences. No matter what college proffesor who never read any documents from the time period tells you, they were Christian. You don't have to believe in Christianity to know that.

It hardly matters what the religion of the Founding Fathers was. What does matter is they believed in the principle of separating church and state. End of story. Some indisputable documents could come to light that proved that every single one of them worshipped Satan that wouldn't mean that its ok to have Satanic rituals on public property.

Hmm, do public parks count as public property? Because during the warmer months, we tend to have our rituals at a public park.

[Maurepas]

No, George Washington I know was a Christian. Take a look at his Thanksgiving adress. He says "Almighty God" a few times in there along with other Christian refrences. No matter what college proffesor who never read any documents from the time period tells you, they were Christian. You don't have to believe in Christianity to know that.

It hardly matters what the religion of the Founding Fathers was. What does matter is they believed in the principle of separating church and state. End of story. Some indisputable documents could come to light that proved that every single one of them worshipped Satan that wouldn't mean that its ok to have Satanic rituals on public property.

Hmm, do public parks count as public property? Because during the warmer months, we tend to have our rituals at a public park.

Yes it does...But, I dont see any particular issue with it personally, I've went to a few of the rituals we have down here with my Mom(Wiccan) and thought it was pretty fun...

[Wilgrove]

The ones who do are the businesses like Walmart and other chains stores that fear about losing that 0.00001%'s almighty dollar...

Actually it's not really when businesses do it, but more in the media.

I think the media probably does it for similar reasons...

A) the "debate" itself, generates alot of ratings, so if you fabricate a mass controversy about it every year, more people watch...

and B) the off chance that they'll lose the 0.00001%'s almighty Rating...

As always, its about the Money,

He's right. I have decorations up at my business, but I usually keep it pretty secular, just some lights, greenery, some snow flake. I try to exclude all religion. It's better to do that than try to include all of them.

[Chetssaland]

In case no one saw my question at the end. I believe Deism is a branch of Christianity anyways, yes?

Not really, Deism makes a point of accepting anyone of any faith, only stipulating a belief in a God of some sort...
And here's a source on the Founding Fathers' Deism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist#Deism_in_the_United_States

Alright, so it at least gives a quote from Franklin stating he became a deist but nothing in there convinced me about Washington or all the others. I'll see if I can't find anything.

[Ifreann]

No, George Washington I know was a Christian. Take a look at his Thanksgiving adress. He says "Almighty God" a few times in there along with other Christian refrences. No matter what college proffesor who never read any documents from the time period tells you, they were Christian. You don't have to believe in Christianity to know that.

It hardly matters what the religion of the Founding Fathers was. What does matter is they believed in the principle of separating church and state. End of story. Some indisputable documents could come to light that proved that every single one of them worshipped Satan that wouldn't mean that its ok to have Satanic rituals on public property.

Hmm, do public parks count as public property? Because during the warmer months, we tend to have our rituals at a public park.

Its the government that's prevented from doing or endorsing these things. While the park may well be owned by the government, they'd probably let people do whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with other people there.

[Maurepas]

In case no one saw my question at the end. I believe Deism is a branch of Christianity anyways, yes?

Not really, Deism makes a point of accepting anyone of any faith, only stipulating a belief in a God of some sort...
And here's a source on the Founding Fathers' Deism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist#Deism_in_the_United_States

Alright, so it at least gives a quote from Franklin stating he became a deist but nothing in there convinced me about Washington or all the others. I'll see if I can't find anything.

Here's Thomas Jefferson's case:

For his part, Thomas Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he more often referred to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story.

Now, George Washington is a bit more complicated, he retained many of his Christian Beliefs, despite becoming a Freemason and participating/conducting Masonic Rituals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Was ... d_religion

As far as his views of Religion and Government, I think this quote serves a good point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Was ... us_beliefs

This was a relief to the Jewish community of the United States, since the Jews had been either expelled or discriminated against in many European countries.

...the Government of the United States ... gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. ... May the children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid. May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy.

[Kirav]

What is annoying though, is when one says 'Happy Holidays' but pretty obviously means 'Merry Christmas'.

Take for example the sign outside my local barbershop. It's green and red, with gingerbread men, candy canes, reindeer, and a CHRISTMAS TREE in the background, but it says 'Happy Holidays'.

[Tsa-la-gi Nation]

And Easter celebrates the rising of Christ, not the death.

no your thinking of Halloween

It's that magical time of year when the ghost of jesus rises from the dead to feed of the flesh of the living.

[Strykla]

Too bad I'm not Jewish. They get presents for, what, 12 days?

[Maurepas]

And Easter celebrates the rising of Christ, not the death.

no your thinking of Halloween

It's that magical time of year when the ghost of jesus rises from the dead to feed of the flesh of the living.

Thats why its always a good Idea to have a well thought out Zombie Escape plan, *nods*

[Maurepas]

Too bad I'm not Jewish. They get presents for, what, 12 days?

Yeah, but who really wants 12 dreidels anyway,

[Milks Empire]

Back on topic: Is the War on Christmas caused by non-Christians making a stir about Christians celebrating a holiday in public, or by liberals succumbing to trolling from figureheads with persecution complexes? It's the former that's the initial catalyst, I'll grant, but people always tend to overreact.

I'd go with option C.

It's just a bunch of fundamentalist dickwads crying wolf and acting like victims of something that doesn't really exist.

[Wikine]

See, I don't get why everyone makes a fuss about putting a nativity scene up at town hall. This nation was founded on Christian beliefs and should stay that way. Go ahead and put up the Star of David if you'd like too. No one gets offended by a nativity scene, or at least they shouldn't. If I go to India, I'm not going to cry out in rage when I see Hinduism everywhere.

No it was not.

Founded on Enlightenment principles of education, personal freedom, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". God is not mentioned a single time in the Constitution. Of course, neither is secularism, but it's implied by the Establishment Clause.

[Chetssaland]

What is annoying though, is when one says 'Happy Holidays' but pretty obviously means 'Merry Christmas'.

Take for example the sign outside my local barbershop. It's green and red, with gingerbread men, candy canes, reindeer, and a CHRISTMAS TREE in the background, but it says 'Happy Holidays'.

I prefer Merry Christmas and a Happy Hanukkah. Quanza is as legit as Festivas .

[Conserative Morality]

Merry Christmas, a Pagan date for a Christian event that is now a cultural holiday.

[Andertion]

And Easter celebrates the rising of Christ, not the death.

no your thinking of Halloween

I'm gonna clear up a mistake I see continuously!
Easter=Christ's death and ressurection
Holloween= a Satanic holiday, now a day kids go door to door getting free candy
Christmas= Jesus's birth

regardless of what religion you belive thats what is celebrated on those days. Also I'm not gonna argue so please don't post any insulting or rude objections.

[Tunizcha]

And Easter celebrates the rising of Christ, not the death.

no your thinking of Halloween

I'm gonna clear up a mistake I see continuously!
Easter=Christ's death and ressurection
Holloween= a Satanic holiday, now a day kids go door to door getting free candy
Christmas= Jesus's birth

regardless of what religion you belive thats what is celebrated on those days. Also I'm not gonna argue so please don't post any insulting or rude objections.

Actually, no. Christmas has roots in the Winter Solstice, Halloween is the Celtic Samhain, as well as the Christian All Saints.

[Tsa-la-gi Nation]

And Easter celebrates the rising of Christ, not the death.

no your thinking of Halloween

I'm gonna clear up a mistake I see continuously!
Easter=Christ's death and ressurection
Holloween= a Satanic holiday, now a day kids go door to door getting free candy
Christmas= Jesus's birth

regardless of what religion you belive thats what is celebrated on those days. Also I'm not gonna argue so please don't post any insulting or rude objections.

Holloween is a pagan holiday not a satanic holiday. there is a difference.

[Yenke-Bin]

I'm boycotting this year's Christmas. After watching people beat each other for toys and gadgets today, while neglecting two homeless vets right down the road, I have decided to boycott it. I am bringing my own "war on christmas". I refuse to buy gifts for family or friends. Instead, I am using the money to send baby formula and school supplies to a reservation in S. Dakota. Instead of eating a meal with my family, I will fast and work at a homeless shelter here.

I see it like this: the greatest tragedy is not that people say "Happy Holidays", or Christians mistaking a pagan holiday for the birth of Christ. Heck, I am not even mad at people for not adoring Christ on this date. These are all minor to me.

What bothers me is that people will only think about the poor, downtrodden, and homeless this one day of the year. And even in that thought on that one day, they will not do anything to help these people out. This is the real war. There are real battles and casualties.

I mean, seriously, why the hell do people get mad at what you wish them, yet are not outraged by the situations so many people are in?

/ranting