The T in LGBT

[Souseiseki]

I am trans, and your inability to read seems to have allowed you to miss that. I'm also polysexual, so you're not coming from any sort of unique perspective here. If you have to make the declaration that they're separate issues, fine. That's your right. But you're doing it with an agrresive, ignorant voice that somehow comes out as, "FUCK LGBT IT SHOULD BE TWO SEPERATE GROUPS" even though there's clear evidence that each stride for sexual equality has aided gender equality, and the two could be dealt with together, at once.

Hence the reason why the LGBT movement exists

....I thought you were cis. The more you know.

half the forum is actually part of the secret trans cabal. even some of the mods. we run this place. don't tell anyone though it's secret.

[Grenartia]

Liking androgyne non-binary males and women in the start or in-between of a transition from their biological male start points is feeling attracted to maleness in a degree

Transgender is no androgyny.

.... It is a specific kind of point somewhere between bisexual and heterosexual. If people want to identify with it (and they do, there is even the label T-lover where I live) for sure they are sexual minorities.

That's cute but those t-lovers are fetishists. The sexuality they express is a part of their sexual play - not their sexual or gender identity.

They are in most countries denied rights to marry them and to be protected from societal discrimination too.

Indeed. I've endured discrimination based upon my preference as well - from the trans community (who think, at first, that I am a fetishists), the homosexual community (who tend to view me in denial of my homosexuality) and the heterosexual community (who tend to view me in denial of my homosexuality). I'm not, however, homosexual. In the slightest. Masculine identity traits are a major turn off for me.

They may be shunned and attacked for offending God, manly honour or whatever.

Indeed. And it's a shame. Because God doesn't tend to be portrayed as taking offense with a binary gender identity - which the transexual community embraces.

Dis, have I ever told you that you're a scholar, an officer, and a gentleman?

[Luveria]

Oh they're different, no one's objecting to that.

You're not. Power to TSM. Trouble is, others are, or saying "They're so similar there's no point in differentiating." Which is wrong in the face.

I haven't said that. I've said it overlaps so much it's pointless splitting it into two separate movements. Not all of us are incapable of seeing how interconnected it is.

[Distruzio]

Isn't an inversion of a binary still a binary?

Oh that's a pedantic point and you know it .

In all seriousness the abolition of the binary is a fairly big thing within queer movements. Not the abolition of gender, something I don't support, but merely the abolition of the binary.

Perhaps it's pedantic, I'll admit. But it's how I reconcile my anti-egalitarianism with my tacit support of the LGBT movement. I don't want them to abolish the binary - I support that. I just don't want the binary to be used to forcibly define anyone. I'd like it to be chosen because its, in my view, more appropriate. If one doesn't like it, fine by me. I just won't be attracted to you. Not everyone wants Distruzio to be attracted to them.

I'm not supporting the controlling asshats who want to assert a particularity by being, perhaps, pedantic. And that isn't to say that those who do wish to abolish the binary are, necessarily, asshats in that regard. Every trans - and homosexual person I've met, in the end, agrees with my approximation and explanation of my views. They don't, at all, wish to reverse the coercive binary inversion. They, in reality, merely want it relaxed - which I can agree with.

My pedantry is so folks know exactly how I can be anti-egalitarian and, yet, favor LGBT rights recognition.

[Distruzio]

....I thought you were cis. The more you know.

half the forum is actually part of the secret trans cabal. even some of the mods. we run this place. don't tell anyone though it's secret.

We should beware the trans-agenda!

[Luveria]

half the forum is actually part of the secret trans cabal. even some of the mods. we run this place. don't tell anyone though it's secret.

We should beware the trans-agenda!

It's a good agenda.

[Jormengand]

You're not. Power to TSM. Trouble is, others are, or saying "They're so similar there's no point in differentiating." Which is wrong in the face.

I haven't said that. I've said it overlaps so much it's pointless splitting it into two separate movements. Not all of us are incapable of seeing how interconnected it is.

All right, I get that I'm an incapable transphobic troll. Cut back on the insults, for the lord's sake. I may be swearing as every other word, but I'm not insulting people for no reason.

It's connected enough that it can be one movement. I've said this six or seven times now. What it is not connected enough to be is one issue.

[Distruzio]

Transgender is no androgyny.



That's cute but those t-lovers are fetishists. The sexuality they express is a part of their sexual play - not their sexual or gender identity.



Indeed. I've endured discrimination based upon my preference as well - from the trans community (who think, at first, that I am a fetishists), the homosexual community (who tend to view me in denial of my homosexuality) and the heterosexual community (who tend to view me in denial of my homosexuality). I'm not, however, homosexual. In the slightest. Masculine identity traits are a major turn off for me.



Indeed. And it's a shame. Because God doesn't tend to be portrayed as taking offense with a binary gender identity - which the transexual community embraces.

Dis, have I ever told you that you're a scholar, an officer, and a gentleman?

Don't forget that when it comes to economic discussions, my friend.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Oh they're different, no one's objecting to that.

You're not. Power to TSM. Trouble is, others are, or saying "They're so similar there's no point in differentiating." Which is wrong in the face.

Oh, there's plenty of point in differentiating, for sure! The struggles we face and quite different than the struggles gay people face, but Luveria's also right. there's a ton of interconnectedness too, hence the unifying movement.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Oh that's a pedantic point and you know it .

In all seriousness the abolition of the binary is a fairly big thing within queer movements. Not the abolition of gender, something I don't support, but merely the abolition of the binary.

Perhaps it's pedantic, I'll admit. But it's how I reconcile my anti-egalitarianism with my tacit support of the LGBT movement. I don't want them to abolish the binary - I support that. I just don't want the binary to be used to forcibly define anyone. I'd like it to be chosen because its, in my view, more appropriate. If one doesn't like it, fine by me. I just won't be attracted to you. Not everyone wants Distruzio to be attracted to them.

I'm not supporting the controlling asshats who want to assert a particularity by being, perhaps, pedantic. And that isn't to say that those who do wish to abolish the binary are, necessarily, asshats in that regard. Every trans - and homosexual person I've met, in the end, agrees with my approximation and explanation of my views. They don't, at all, wish to reverse the coercive binary inversion. They, in reality, merely want it relaxed - which I can agree with.

My pedantry is so folks know exactly how I can be anti-egalitarian and, yet, favor LGBT rights recognition.

Fair enough, no opposition there.

[Condunum]

"FUCK LGBT IT SHOULD BE TWO SEPERATE GROUPS"

Spoiler alert here:

That
Is
Not
What
I'm
Saying

I'm saying that trans issues are not "Close enough" to gay issues, and you should realise that they're different and there is a point in treating them differently.

I do know they're different, holy fuck. It's not like I haven't acknowledged that a half dozen times this past hour alone. I'm also saying that the LGBT movement is LGBT Because it's not just for sexuality, and it's not just for gender, hence why they are approached together.

Holy fucking shit a rights activism group doesn't have a single issue in their scope, but they actually deal with the issues that run parallel to each other, oh my god! It's like they can deal with both simultaneously without the need to scream about how different they are!

[Agritum]

We should beware the trans-agenda!

It's a good agenda.

I for once welcome my new transgender overlords.

[Luveria]

It's a good agenda.

I for once welcome my new transgender overlords.

You'll go far in the new order.

[Condunum]

....I thought you were cis. The more you know.

half the forum is actually part of the secret trans cabal. even some of the mods. we run this place. don't tell anyone though it's secret.

You're giving away the secrets too fast...

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

In other words, I like to fuck women. I don't like to fuck "chicks with dicks".

I don't want to fuck a man. I don't want to fuck a man with a cunt.

Make sense?

That reminds me of how gay men by definition aren't interested in transgender women, so that really puts a hole into the belief that being attracted to a woman who happens to have a dick, is somehow homosexuality.

If they do, it would be a specific kind of bisexuality.

But if they only like these kinds of women rather than the female-born ones as well, they would be fetishist bisexuals?

[Jormengand]

rights activism group

For the last time, I am not talking about the fucking rights activism group. I'm talking about your comment that it's pointless to differentiate between trans issues and gay issues because they're "Close enough."

[Distruzio]

Well, lets be clear about the term, "fetishists." Fetishist isn't an identity. It's a preference.

Except in this context it can't even be considered a fetish because attraction to transwomen isn't a fetish in any way by the meaning of the word.p

I hear you. I was merely pointing out that both the attraction to transwomen and the fetishizing of transwomen are preferences, rather than identities.

I prefer attractive slender women. I only find feminine women attractive. Ergo, I am a fetishist in that regard.

Not really. That's just your preference for feminine women.

I was being, for the purposes of this conversation, rather... relaxed, if you catch my drift.

It's a way of making a distinction between those like myself, who find the gender of a transgender attractive rather than the sexuality of that transgender.

That's how I am too, and that's what the preference itself is.

In other words, I like to fuck women. I don't like to fuck "chicks with dicks".

I don't want to fuck a man. I don't want to fuck a man with a cunt.

Make sense?

That reminds me of how gay men by definition aren't interested in transgender women, so that really puts a hole into the belief that being attracted to a woman who happens to have a dick, is somehow homosexuality.

It is a curious thing, I agree.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Spoiler alert here:

That
Is
Not
What
I'm
Saying

I'm saying that trans issues are not "Close enough" to gay issues, and you should realise that they're different and there is a point in treating them differently.

I do know they're different, holy fuck. It's not like I haven't acknowledged that a half dozen times this past hour alone. I'm also saying that the LGBT movement is LGBT Because it's not just for sexuality, and it's not just for gender, hence why they are approached together.

Holy fucking shit a rights activism group doesn't have a single issue in their scope, but they actually deal with the issues that run parallel to each other, oh my god! It's like they can deal with both simultaneously without the need to scream about how different they are!

I'm fairly sure you two are just talking past one another at this point.

[Condunum]

rights activism group

For the last time, I am not talking about the fucking rights activism group. I'm talking about your comment that it's pointless to differentiate between trans issues and gay issues because they're "Close enough."

So you're taking a comment out of context to bash it? Nice. If you want to comment on what I'd said, refer to it in context and not just my saying it's "pointless to differentiate"

[Lynnakrynn]

It's that the struggle is so interconnected, they're in the same movement. Since most things that benefit one do or can benefit the other, it's one movement together. That's what happens when sexuality and gender are interconnected issues in society.

There's also an an inseparable overlap for reasons such as if a transgender person transitions, they end up being subjected to marriage restrictions for now being in a same-sex relationship. It's pointless separating it when it's the same movement for acceptance.

Not necessarily so. In my birth state, the requirements to change the sex on my birth certificate is SRS and a court order. This would make me, in all legal aspects including marriage, female.

Besides, being told by a now ex straight girlfriend after coming out to her, and a gay male I met that being trans was a poor "life choice", I don't see a lot of 'solidarity' in this supposed community.

Let's hear the views of another person who actually has experience of both issues, shall we?



Yeah, so basically, stop trying to pretend they're the same. They're not. As a person with experience of both, and how they're different, they're different. And another person who actually knows what she's talking about agrees.

Jesus fucking christ, I'm not pretending they're the same. I'm saying they're so interconnected that there's no point in separating the two. Obviously you cannot fucking see that, but at this point that's not surprising to me in the slightest.

Both of you. Breathe. Please. What's so bad about having differing opinions and civil discourse?

[Ylkaeenplypkhkos]

you people saying fetish fetish fetish. they arn't exclusive. often times people who have a fetish their fetish is their primary sexual attraction.

[The Steel Magnolia]

There's also an an inseparable overlap for reasons such as if a transgender person transitions, they end up being subjected to marriage restrictions for now being in a same-sex relationship. It's pointless separating it when it's the same movement for acceptance.

Not necessarily so. In my birth state, the requirements to change the sex on my birth certificate is SRS and a court order. This would make me, in all legal aspects including marriage, female.

Besides, being told by a now ex straight girlfriend after coming out to her, and a gay male I met that being trans was a poor "life choice", I don't see a lot of 'solidarity' in this supposed community.

Gay people can be plenty transphobic, but they're still queer, despite it all. As are we.

[Grenartia]

Dis, have I ever told you that you're a scholar, an officer, and a gentleman?

Don't forget that when it comes to economic discussions, my friend.

I can still debate you under a table in those matters.

I for once welcome my new transgender overlords.

You'll go far in the new order.

Indeed. Agri will make a good pet...

[Condunum]

There's also an an inseparable overlap for reasons such as if a transgender person transitions, they end up being subjected to marriage restrictions for now being in a same-sex relationship. It's pointless separating it when it's the same movement for acceptance.

Not necessarily so. In my birth state, the requirements to change the sex on my birth certificate is SRS and a court order. This would make me, in all legal aspects including marriage, female.

Besides, being told by a now ex straight girlfriend after coming out to her, and a gay male I met that being trans was a poor "life choice", I don't see a lot of 'solidarity' in this supposed community.

No one said bigots don't exist within the movement. There's a lot of hate for bisexuals, too, because they aren't "truely" oppressed or something.

Although, to your first point, that's good for you. However, people who identify with alternative genders are, unfortunately, required to use one of the choices legally recognized.

Jesus fucking christ, I'm not pretending they're the same. I'm saying they're so interconnected that there's no point in separating the two. Obviously you cannot fucking see that, but at this point that's not surprising to me in the slightest.

Both of you. Breathe. Please. What's so bad about having differing opinions and civil discourse?

I recognize with full clarity that this argument is an exercise in futility. It's two very similar opinions bickering over things we agree on 90% of the way, and then language gets in the way.

I still maintain that he's a big stinky poopyhead and I'm never gonna play on the jungle gym with him again!

[Distruzio]

Don't forget that when it comes to economic discussions, my friend.

.

What happens under the table stays in Vegas... or something... somehow. Shit... that joke went tits down quickly didn't it?

Oh the entendres!