Think Socialist

[Slobozhanshchyna]

MOD EDIT: Removed "Leftists Only" from the title. Really, we don't do exclusive threads here.

So much for a classless society, that the mods have to enforce it.

Hmm...

Free market socialism is the only viable socialism.

Why not? Small businesses competing on the market fit into modern socialist principles(I hope).

[Imperial Manila]

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America? -Fidel Castro-

[Sibirsky]

So much for a classless society, that the mods have to enforce it.

Hmm...

Free market socialism is the only viable socialism.

Why not? Small businesses competing on the market fit into modern socialist principles(I hope).

Why not what?

Sure, if those small businesses are socialist, then they fit into socialist principles. I don't see a problem.

[Sibirsky]

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America? -Fidel Castro-

Your source is a fucking moron.

There is very little capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America. And where it does exist, it has brought success.

[Slobozhanshchyna]

Why not? Small businesses competing on the market fit into modern socialist principles(I hope).

Why not what?

Sure, if those small businesses are socialist, then they fit into socialist principles. I don't see a problem.

I spock to you.

[Sibirsky]

Why not what?

Sure, if those small businesses are socialist, then they fit into socialist principles. I don't see a problem.

I spock to you.

I'm very open to free market socialism.

I think it has two massive things stacked against it, in the real world. One of them is mandated by the state and can be removed. The other is inherent.

[Yorkopolis]

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America? -Fidel Castro-

Your source is a fucking moron.

There is very little capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America. And where it does exist, it has brought success.

Oh let's not mind all the capitalist states in Middle, eastern and western Africa, no, and let's certainly not mind the mass-poverty over there while the elites get richer and richer. Way to ignore facts.

[Sibirsky]

Your source is a fucking moron.

There is very little capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America. And where it does exist, it has brought success.

Oh let's not mind all the capitalist states in Middle, eastern and western Africa, no, and let's certainly not mind the mass-poverty over there while the elites get richer and richer. Way to ignore facts.

Cronyism and corruption are not capitalism. I am not the one ignoring facts. You are.

[CTALNH]

Oh let's not mind all the capitalist states in Middle, eastern and western Africa, no, and let's certainly not mind the mass-poverty over there while the elites get richer and richer. Way to ignore facts.

Cronyism and corruption are not capitalism. I am not the one ignoring facts. You are.

here i was thinking thats the purest expression of capitalism we ever gonna get.

[Sibirsky]

Cronyism and corruption are not capitalism. I am not the one ignoring facts. You are.

here i was thinking thats the purest expression of capitalism we ever gonna get.

Who gives a shit what you were thinking?

You have no idea what capitalism, or socialism for that matter, are.

Fun fact. The more capitalist countries tend to be less corrupt.

[Slobozhanshchyna]

Cronyism and corruption are not capitalism. I am not the one ignoring facts. You are.

here i was thinking thats the purest expression of capitalism we ever gonna get.

The product of everyone having valid points is cognitive dissonance. Thank you, community.

And hey, cronyism is a byproduct of stalinism, too.

[CTALNH]

here i was thinking thats the purest expression of capitalism we ever gonna get.

Who gives a shit what you were thinking?

You have no idea what capitalism, or socialism for that matter, are.

Fun fact. The more capitalist countries tend to be less corrupt.

Yeah right.

[Slobozhanshchyna]

here i was thinking thats the purest expression of capitalism we ever gonna get.

Who gives a shit what you were thinking?

You have no idea what capitalism, or socialism for that matter, are.

Fun fact. The more capitalist countries tend to be less corrupt.

Yup, cause everyone's too busy accumulating capital to satisfy their greed. Neat.

[Sibirsky]

Who gives a shit what you were thinking?

You have no idea what capitalism, or socialism for that matter, are.

Fun fact. The more capitalist countries tend to be less corrupt.

Yeah right.

Yeah right what?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

[CTALNH]

Yeah right.

Yeah right what?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

What I am supposed to say to this?

[Dragonic Outland]

What I am supposed to say to this?

Admit the fact that capitalist nations are less corrupt instead of giving a "ROFL emoticon"

[CTALNH]

What I am supposed to say to this?

Admit the fact that capitalist nations are less corrupt instead of giving a "ROFL emoticon"

I have to admit that a survey made by capitalist wankers to express how good they are at wanking is legitimate proof?

[Dragonic Outland]

I have to admit that a survey made by capitalist wankers to express how good they are at wanking is legitimate proof?

How about giving a source/evidence to show that they have wanked instead of giving a biased view of capitalist nations?

[Vilkavis]

So much for a classless society, that the mods have to enforce it.

Hmm...

Free market socialism is the only viable socialism.

Why not? Small businesses competing on the market fit into modern socialist principles(I hope).

It doesn't. Not for a significant length of time.

Lenin said no such things. Lein ardently believed that a "final victory" could only arise by global revolution. Lenin spoke of having everything necessary to construct Socialism.

Lol. You don't actually understand Socialism in One Country:

'Can the victorious Socialism of one country, which is encircled by many strong capitalist countries, regard itself as being fully guaranteed against the danger of military invasion, and hence, against attempts to restore capitalism in our country?

Can our working class and our peasantry, by their own efforts, without the serious assistance of the working class in capitalist countries, overcome the bourgeoisie of other countries in the same way as we overcame our own bourgeoisie? In other words :

Can we regard the victory of Socialism in our country as final, i.e., as being free from the dangers of military attack and of attempts to restore capitalism, assuming that Socialism is victorious only in one country and that the capitalist encirclement continues to exist?

Such are the problems that are connected with the second side of the question of the victory of Socialism in our country.

Leninism answers these problems in the negative.'

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... /01/18.htm

Also, your Marxist sig sucks. How about a nice quote from the First Edition Preface to Das Kapital: "I welcome every opinion based on scientific criticism."

What about now? Does it meet your standards? Yeah, it's been some time since I updated my sig.

Marx's a great pal anyway, wish I could know his opinion on what happened to the left today. He'd become a Democratic Socialist now, I guess.

No.

revolution smevolution. marx wasn't about 'revolution'. he was about the kind of world people have to live in.

What?

'The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.'

The Manifesto.

What Stalin did was send absolutely anybody to the gulag for doing something he didn't like.

Uh, at its peak, the Gulags had a mere fraction more prisoners than US prisons...

Creating inequity in a state where everyone's meant to be equal is no socialism

Socialism isn't about equality at all costs.

That's what I call the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Your DoP will crumble faster than the Paris Commune. Socialism isn't a utopia. There needs to be a lengthy purge of all capitalist remnants.

Te only real problem with the wannabee communist governments is that they can't seem to emulate "True communism".

While European and American countries are successful at capitalism, because it is easier, communism is harder to emulate.

Why?

Communism is the right thing, and doing exactly the right thing is always hard.

True Pure Communism was the stateless society. Socialism - such as that in the Soviet Union under Stalin - is a transitional stage. It is not communism, i.e. stateless, classless society.

<Lengthy Post>

Your understanding of socialism is incredibly flawed.

Protip: socialism isn't classless and private property =/= personal property.

---

Yeah, whatever, that's enough of this shitfest.

[CTALNH]

I have to admit that a survey made by capitalist wankers to express how good they are at wanking is legitimate proof?

How about giving a source/evidence to show that they have wanked instead of giving a biased view of capitalist nations?

Do I need to?

Do I need to say anything about the wests neocolonialist attacks on other countries?

The rampant crime and poverty?

The Rape culture whose roots originate from capitalism itself?

[Asigna]

The real reason why most of the world doesn't give marxism a chance it's because they have been trained by mostly capitalist societies to dislike the idea of socialism or the left.

To those of many who say that "Leftism? Ew..... disgusting people...dirty socialists. Commie drunk bastards..."

What have you experienced under these governments to conclude the Marxism and socialism is an evil ideology?

While for many who conclude it well just because "They had heard" of what happens to the innocent men "oppressed" under the elements of Stalinism, yet they chose not to give the ideology a chance and serve it's purpose, that's why still, millions of workers in different societies, let's choose not to only limit our view of our society's state by not looking only on the US alone, they had it all too good for too long, millions of workers and labourers are still under the pain of the existence of the proletariat and the effects of the oppressive societal elements in many other different societies deemed as "Part of the third world" and other societies falling from the grip of what capitalism can offer due to it's labourers collapsing, many are still being corrupted from what they truly deserve.

If some people give the misunderstood liberator, Marxism and the left, a chance, oh how far have we gone in integrating this revolutionary genius idea into our societies, how far have we gone in revising it to a time where many choose it over the capitalism, a system seemingly unfit for many third world nations. Marxism could have become a catalyst ideology for development before we revise the ideas of the developing societies when they have grown enough.

[CTALNH]

http://theredphoenixapl.org/2010/11/22/ ... %E2%80%9D/

[Aurora Novus]

Lol. You don't actually understand Socialism in One Country:

Don't tell me you're another Stalinist nutjob.

'Can the victorious Socialism of one country, which is encircled by many strong capitalist countries, regard itself as being fully guaranteed against the danger of military invasion, and hence, against attempts to restore capitalism in our country?

Can our working class and our peasantry, by their own efforts, without the serious assistance of the working class in capitalist countries, overcome the bourgeoisie of other countries in the same way as we overcame our own bourgeoisie? In other words :

Can we regard the victory of Socialism in our country as final, i.e., as being free from the dangers of military attack and of attempts to restore capitalism, assuming that Socialism is victorious only in one country and that the capitalist encirclement continues to exist?

Such are the problems that are connected with the second side of the question of the victory of Socialism in our country.

Leninism answers these problems in the negative.'

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... /01/18.htm

If you think that's a rebuttle against me, it's you, not I, that doesn't understand what Socialism In One Country is.

[CTALNH]

Vilkavis their all entrenched capitalist apologists personally I gave a while ago trying to have an actual debate with them.

You know them rejecting anything I said us Stalinist bullshit and calling me nationalist,idiot,Stalinist luckey and stuff made rather angry.

Also calling anything Stalin wrote us a monsters designs....Because you know dehumanizing people is so in fashion these days.

[Vilkavis]

Lol. You don't actually understand Socialism in One Country:

Don't tell me you're another Stalinist nutjob.

Marxist-Leninist.

'Can the victorious Socialism of one country, which is encircled by many strong capitalist countries, regard itself as being fully guaranteed against the danger of military invasion, and hence, against attempts to restore capitalism in our country?

Can our working class and our peasantry, by their own efforts, without the serious assistance of the working class in capitalist countries, overcome the bourgeoisie of other countries in the same way as we overcame our own bourgeoisie? In other words :

Can we regard the victory of Socialism in our country as final, i.e., as being free from the dangers of military attack and of attempts to restore capitalism, assuming that Socialism is victorious only in one country and that the capitalist encirclement continues to exist?

Such are the problems that are connected with the second side of the question of the victory of Socialism in our country.

Leninism answers these problems in the negative.'

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... /01/18.htm

If you think that's a rebuttle against me, it's you, not I, that doesn't understand what Socialism In One Country is.

You said that Lenin said that socialism can be built in the USSR, but it will not be the 'final victory'. That's exactly what Stalin said in the extract I provided.