Think Socialist

by **Arumdaum** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:45 pm

Draakonite wrote:
Threlizdun wrote:Why the hell would a libertarian socialist support authoritarian capitalist states?

As far as i understood it, he complains about people,, who call themselves communists, and still praise Venezuela Syria and the DPRK

Which is pretty interesting, considering that the DPRK shares more similarities with Nazi Germany than the USSR, other than the terminology involved.

by **Pacifornia** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:48 pm

Arumdaum wrote:
Pacifornia wrote:Gahh! I have so many books on my bucket list but I get sidetracked everyday yes that'll be my next nonfiction book after this book on the history of world communism.

Ack, same. I got a book on the history of socialism in the US a while back, but I still haven't gotten to reading it yet.

May I ask what the title is? Socialism was pretty prevalent in America during the early part of the twentieth century.

by **The Parkus Empire** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Arumdaum wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I saying that if you dislike East Germany it obviously doesn't mean you dislike Germans.

I... never claimed that.

This started with the claim that I like theocracy, totalitarianism, and starvation since I didn't dislike NK.

No, you simply don't dislike those things since that is what North Korea stands for. North Korea is recognized as a term for the government because we damn well know they aren't a Democratic People's Republic and they have no legitimacy over the Korean people, they're simply gangsters.

by **Arumdaum** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Pacifornia wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:Ack, same. I got a book on the history of socialism in the US a while back, but I still haven't gotten to reading it yet.

May I ask what the title is? Socialism was pretty prevalent in America during the early part of the twentieth century.

by **Forster Keys** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:51 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:I... never claimed that.

This started with the claim that I like theocracy, totalitarianism, and starvation since I didn't dislike NK.

No, you simply don't dislike those things since that is what North Korea stands for. North Korea is recognized as a term for the government because we damn well know they aren't a Democratic People's Republic and they have no legitimacy over the Korean people, they're simply gangsters.

The ruling clique aren't cool enough to be gangsters.

by **God Kefka** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:52 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
God Kefka wrote:Socialism is largely irrelevant... and I have no interest in being expropriated so...

How is it irrelevant?

Well it's irrelevant in the sense that it would need a revolution to happen and no one is going to start such a revolution because socialism's been bad-mouthed by the Cold War.

But just saying that's a good thing because I don't want it to be ever relevant. Once it's relevant I'll be in danger of getting expropriated and I'm not into that sort of stuff... People don't like giving up their properties so some peasant revolution or some such nonsense would no doubt repeat the whole Cold War nonsense again...

I want to keep my tv and everything... no expropriations and revolutions thank you.

by **Pacifornia** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:52 pm

Arumdaum wrote:
Pacifornia wrote:May I ask what the title is? Socialism was pretty prevalent in America during the early part of the twentieth century.

Shoot! I borrowed that book but I had to return it. Glad you brought it up!

by **TerraPublica** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:53 pm

Forster Keys wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:No, you simply don't dislike those things since that is what North Korea stands for. North Korea is recognized as a term for the government because we damn well know they aren't a Democratic People's Republic and they have no legitimacy over the Korean people, they're simply gangsters.

The ruling clique aren't cool enough to be gangsters.

But they do make some great crystal meth.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/world/asia/north-korea-drugs/index.html

Kim Jong-Un is the one who knocks!

by **Forster Keys** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:54 pm

TerraPublica wrote:
Forster Keys wrote:
The ruling clique aren't cool enough to be gangsters.

But they do make some great crystal meth.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/world/asia/north-korea-drugs/index.html

Kim Jong-Un is the one who knocks!

Well I concede.

by **Arumdaum** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:55 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:I... never claimed that.

This started with the claim that I like theocracy, totalitarianism, and starvation since I didn't dislike NK.

No, you simply don't dislike those things since that is what North Korea stands for. North Korea is recognized as a term for the government because we damn well know they aren't a Democratic People's Republic and they have no legitimacy over the Korean people, they're simply gangsters.

No. That's a pretty silly way of doing things. A physical location can't really stand for things. Starvation might be present, there may be personality cults, and the government might be totalitarian, but I doubt that it's something which communities or the place stand for.

The DPRK is the formal name of the nation-state, regardless of whether they're democratic, a republic, or for the people. While I'll agree that they're like gangsters, how is its legitimacy any different from South Korea's? Where does legitimacy even come from?

by **The Parkus Empire** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:55 pm

Forster Keys wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:No, you simply don't dislike those things since that is what North Korea stands for. North Korea is recognized as a term for the government because we damn well know they aren't a Democratic People's Republic and they have no legitimacy over the Korean people, they're simply gangsters.

The ruling clique aren't cool enough to be gangsters.

by **Pacifornia** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:56 pm

TerraPublica wrote:
Forster Keys wrote:
The ruling clique aren't cool enough to be gangsters.

But they do make some great crystal meth.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/world/asia/north-korea-drugs/index.html

Kim Jong-Un is the one who knocks!

I bet there's a NK version of Breaking Bad over there. Lololol

by **Arumdaum** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:58 pm

Pacifornia wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:
(Image)

Shoot! I borrowed that book but I had to return it. Glad you brought it up!

Borrowed it from where? Do libraries have books like these?

by **The Parkus Empire** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:00 pm

Arumdaum wrote:
Pacifornia wrote:Shoot! I borrowed that book but I had to return it. Glad you brought it up!

Borrowed it from where? Do libraries have books like these?

Libraries have a fuckton of books on socialism. If there isn't a copy at your local one, check online and see if they can order it from another library.

by **Blassland** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:02 pm

What is some good socialist literature? I have always been a leftist of sorts, but ideologically have bounced around from center-left to marxist-lenninst

by **Pacifornia** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:02 pm

Arumdaum wrote:
Pacifornia wrote:Shoot! I borrowed that book but I had to return it. Glad you brought it up!

Borrowed it from where? Do libraries have books like these?

Yeah of course! I got mine from my college's library.

by **Shnercropolis** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:03 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:Borrowed it from where? Do libraries have books like these?

Libraries have a fuckton of books on socialism. If there isn't a copy at your local one, check online and see if they can order it from another library.

My hometown library has some pretty obscure sci-fi books as well.

by **Pacifornia** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:06 pm

Blassland wrote:What is some good socialist literature? I have always been a leftist of sorts, but ideologically have bounced around from center-left to marxist-lenninst

I used to be a democrat here in the US. I would start with both the Manifesto and Das Kapital. Consider your political spectrum and country. What interests you? Lenin? Tito? Allende? Debs? Castro? Guevara? A lot of exploration is necessary

by **The Parkus Empire** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:08 pm

Shnercropolis wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:
Libraries have a fuckton of books on socialism. If there isn't a copy at your local one, check online and see if they can order it from another library.

My hometown library has some pretty obscure sci-fi books as well.

Nine tenths of the books I check out my library doesn't even carry. I find my titles by browsing the central database and then ordering from there.

by **The Parkus Empire** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:11 pm

Blassland wrote:What is some good socialist literature? I have always been a leftist of sorts, but ideologically have bounced around from center-left to marxist-lenninst

Das Kapital is a must. Are you interested in Cultural Marxism or just economic?

by **Blassland** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:26 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Blassland wrote:What is some good socialist literature? I have always been a leftist of sorts, but ideologically have bounced around from center-left to marxist-lenninst

Das Kapital is a must. Are you interested in Cultural Marxism or just economic?

Cultural, I have worked my way through the manifesto (sent me into my most extreme stint of leftism)

by **Trotskylvania** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:28 pm

Blassland wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Das Kapital is a must. Are you interested in Cultural Marxism or just economic?

Cultural, I have worked my way through the manifesto (sent me into my most extreme stint of leftism)

Then Gramsci and the Frankfurt school are essential.

by **Blassland** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:38 pm

Pacifornia wrote:
Blassland wrote:What is some good socialist literature? I have always been a leftist of sorts, but ideologically have bounced around from center-left to marxist-lenninst

I used to be a democrat here in the US. I would start with both the Manifesto and Das Kapital. Consider your political spectrum and country. What interests you? Lenin? Tito? Allende? Debs? Castro? Guevara? A lot of exploration is necessary

I have read the manifesto, but not Das Kapital
I am an American and I can safely say that I am a Social Democrat with egalitarian tendencies
I know little about Allende, Debs, or Tito (I have generally been drawn to the idolized revolutionary communists of the past century)

by **Aurora Novus** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:41 pm

I'm primarily interested in the economic side of things. I've read big works like the Manifesto and Capital, but most of what I know I've learned by debating, watching debates, reading articles and essays by other Marxists and getting their perspective, and self-research into the history of the movement and prominent members. So aside from big works and works from well-known people like Marx, Engles, Lenin, and Trotsky, what other works might you reccomend?

by **The Parkus Empire** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:46 pm

Blassland wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Das Kapital is a must. Are you interested in Cultural Marxism or just economic?

Cultural, I have worked my way through the manifesto (sent me into my most extreme stint of leftism)

Worked your way? Shit, that thing is short as fuck.

Trots answered your question pretty well.

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