NationStates

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:45 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Uieurnthlaal wrote:Wait, you think this is Obama doing that? Oh no. Obama has no reason to do so, when he knows full well that Congress will never and can never repeal his healthcare law. He has America's mandate, right now. America as a country does not want healthcare do be repealed.

What's happening is that Boehner has yielded to extremist pressure in the House, and now they refuse to pass any law keeping the government running unless it also defunds the ACA.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24178690

O RLY?

Then apparently 54% of Americans don't know what they want. Republicans have fear mongered this issue. When the House went on recess the directive sent to the Republicans was "FEAR MONGER OBAMA CARE" they even made a horrid manual for how to survive it filled with total BS. Not : "speak with your fellow Citizens in your district"

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:46 am**

HumanSanity wrote:
Belmaria wrote:O RLY?

Then apparently 54% of Americans don't know what they want. Republicans have fear mongered this issue. When the House went on recess the directive sent to the Republicans was "FEAR MONGER OBAMA CARE" they even made a horrid manual for how to survive it filled with total BS. Not : "speak with your fellow Citizens in your district"

Do you have any evidence of this?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:46 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Divair wrote:lol Rasmussen. One of the only polling sites to claim Romney would win.

*Cough Cough*

Hm, yea, so unbiased.

Edit: Wait. Wtf. You're threadjacking. Stop it. This isn't about the Obamacare law.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:47 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Divair wrote:lol Rasmussen. One of the only polling sites to claim Romney would win.

*Cough Cough*

*Cough Cough*

Washington (CNN) - A majority of Americans still oppose the nation's new health care measure, three years after it became law, according to a new survey.

But a CNN/ORC International poll released Monday also indicates that more than a quarter of those who oppose the law, known by many as Obamacare, say they don't support the measure because it doesn't go far enough.

According to the poll, 43% of the public says it supports the health care law, a figure that's mostly unchanged in CNN polling since the measure was passed in 2010 by a Congress then controlled by Democrats and signed into law by President Barack Obama. Fifty-four percent of those questioned say they oppose the law, also relatively unchanged since 2010.

The survey indicates that 35% oppose the health care law because it's too liberal, with 16% saying they oppose the measure because it isn't liberal enough.

So, you take that as meaning that those opposed would support the Republican proposal? If you account for those that like the Republican idea even less, than you find that only 35% oppose it on the GOP side, noticeably smaller than the 43% that support it on the Democrat side.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:48 am**

The Red Star Union wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/politics/shutdown-groundhog-day/index.html
So apparently, because of the Obamacare standoff, the US government might shutdown. What do you think NSers? Im blaming the Republicans, but please do not turn this into a flaming debate.

Discuss.

its simple grandstanding on the part of congressional republicans. the house passed a CR that had no chance of passing the senate even if it didn't include defunding obamacare.

if you have a legislative goal, in this case "defunding obamacare", you give the other side an INCENTIVE to vote for your bill by putting in other things that they really really want to vote for (or at least that if the don't vote for it you can dis them later for not doing so).

they didn't do that so they aren't making a serious effort.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:49 am**

Divair wrote:
Belmaria wrote:*Cough Cough*

Hm, yea, so unbiased.

Edit: Wait. Wtf. You're threadjacking. Stop it. This isn't about the Obamacare law.

Well, it's sort of about the ACA. GOP wants to defund ACA, and they refuse to pass the law keeping the government running unless it defunds the ACA. Whether or not they have the mandate of the people to do that is a large part of the discussion.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:50 am**

Divair wrote:
Belmaria wrote:*Cough Cough*

Hm, yea, so unbiased.

Edit: Wait. Wtf. You're threadjacking. Stop it. This isn't about the Obamacare law.

How is taking an average of all the polls performed by major polling companies biased? It would be impossible to do that, considering the number of polls listed on that site.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:50 am**

Uieurnthlaal wrote:
Divair wrote:Hm, yea, so unbiased.

Edit: Wait. Wtf. You're threadjacking. Stop it. This isn't about the Obamacare law.

Well, it's sort of about the ACA. GOP wants to defund ACA, and they refuse to pass the law keeping the government running unless it defunds the ACA. Whether or not they have the mandate of the people to do that is a large part of the discussion.

Does it matter when they've failed for over 40 times and already went through a Supreme Court case?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:52 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Hm, yea, so unbiased.

Edit: Wait. Wtf. You're threadjacking. Stop it. This isn't about the Obamacare law.

How is taking an average of all the polls performed by major polling companies biased? It would be impossible to do that, considering the number of polls listed on that site.

I don't know whether RealClearPolitics is biased or not, but the report certainly fails to account for the 16% of americans that would prefer it to nothing at all, despite not liking it (me included).

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:52 am**

Belmaria wrote:How is taking an average of all the polls performed by major polling companies biased? It would be impossible to do that, considering the number of polls listed on that site.

Did you bother reading what I posted?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:53 am**

Whenever conservatives cite so called "majorities" against Obamacare, they abuse the fact that there are a lot of Americans (like me) who have an issue with the Affordable Care Act because it didn't go nearly far enough and think we should transition to single-payer.

The biggest problem with Obamacare is that it was a half-measure, so to speak. But I wouldn't want to see it repealed. The fact that I can stay on my parents' insurance 4 more years is really important to me and helpful for making transitions in my life after I graduate college next spring. No more insurance denial for preexisting conditions is a bare minimal step forward that should have been done decades ago. Insurance companies having to spend 80% of peoples' premiums on health care costs is a good thing.

But people from the left have actually offered an alternative (single payer). When the right-wing says "repeal and replace", they have no "replace" in mind, except for replacing Americans' right to health care with even more insurance company profits.

And yes, it's the GOP holding the nation hostage. The White House noting they would veto something totally unreasonable is not unreasonable.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:53 am**

The Red Star Union wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/politics/shutdown-groundhog-day/index.html
So apparently, because of the Obamacare standoff, the US government might shutdown. What do you think NSers? Im blaming the Republicans, but please do not turn this into a flaming debate.

Discuss.

Comes up every few months. Blah blah blah. They'll reach an eleventh-hour agreement that screws the tax-payers over - just like they always do.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:54 am**

Divair wrote:
Belmaria wrote:How is taking an average of all the polls performed by major polling companies biased? It would be impossible to do that, considering the number of polls listed on that site.

Did you bother reading what I posted?

Yes, but that has nothing to do with this. There is no way to insert bias into an average of polls. An average is an average. Plain and simple.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:55 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Did you bother reading what I posted?

Yes, but that has nothing to do with this. There is no way to insert bias into an average of polls. An average is an average. Plain and simple.

There is. Selection of what you're averaging. If I average Rasmussen and a Fox News poll, I'd end up with a huge win in favour of Romney, despite Obama winning very clearly.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:55 am**

the only way to force reform in a tremendously flawed law is to de-fund it. The President and the Senate can compromise or the government shuts down.

While they're at it they should defund the EPA, Homeland Security, The department of Energy, Dept of Education, there are probably more useless agencies but space is limited on the servers

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:57 am**

Divair wrote:
Belmaria wrote:Yes, but that has nothing to do with this. There is no way to insert bias into an average of polls. An average is an average. Plain and simple.

There is. Selection of what you're averaging. If I average Rasmussen and a Fox News poll, I'd end up with a huge win in favour of Romney, despite Obama winning very clearly.

The same way PPP is averaged in as well, considering they are a leftist polling group?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:57 am**

Divair wrote:
Uieurnthlaal wrote:
Well, it's sort of about the ACA. GOP wants to defund ACA, and they refuse to pass the law keeping the government running unless it defunds the ACA. Whether or not they have the mandate of the people to do that is a large part of the discussion.

Does it matter when they've failed for over 40 times and already went through a Supreme Court case?

In what context? In reality, it's conclusive proof of the exasperating impossibility of the GOP to do anything other than meaningless gestures doomed to fail, while condemning the US to ruin.

In their alternate universe, however, it is a crusade against the evil ACA that will somehow ruin the economy and that supposedly everyone would be better without.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:57 am**

Belmaria wrote:
HumanSanity wrote:Then apparently 54% of Americans don't know what they want. Republicans have fear mongered this issue. When the House went on recess the directive sent to the Republicans was "FEAR MONGER OBAMA CARE" they even made a horrid manual for how to survive it filled with total BS. Not : "speak with your fellow Citizens in your district"

Do you have any evidence of this?

Well there's this...

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:59 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Divair wrote:There is. Selection of what you're averaging. If I average Rasmussen and a Fox News poll, I'd end up with a huge win in favour of Romney, despite Obama winning very clearly.

The same way PPP is averaged in as well, considering they are a leftist polling group?

For all its leftist bias, despite being spot on.

PPP Ohio poll: Obama 51, Romney 47

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:59 am**

Uieurnthlaal wrote:
Divair wrote:Does it matter when they've failed for over 40 times and already went through a Supreme Court case?

In what context? In reality, it's conclusive proof of the exasperating impossibility of the GOP to do anything other than meaningless gestures doomed to fail, while condemning the US to ruin.

In their alternate universe, however, it is a crusade against the evil ACA that will somehow ruin the economy and that supposedly everyone would be better without.

In two years you will be saying something more like "It isn't an utter failure. The ACA has flaws that we didn't see at the time so we just need to reform it." Wait and see.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:01 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Uieurnthlaal wrote:In what context? In reality, it's conclusive proof of the exasperating impossibility of the GOP to do anything other than meaningless gestures doomed to fail, while condemning the US to ruin.

In their alternate universe, however, it is a crusade against the evil ACA that will somehow ruin the economy and that supposedly everyone would be better without.

In two years you will be saying something more like "It isn't an utter failure. The ACA has flaws that we didn't see at the time so we just need to reform it." Wait and see.

Let me do a test. What flaws? I dare you to name one.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:01 am**

Xeng He wrote:
Belmaria wrote:Do you have any evidence of this?

Well there's this...

An article written by a leftist accusing rightists of misinforming the public? Not biased at all.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:02 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Xeng He wrote:Well there's this...

An article written by a leftist accusing rightists of misinforming the public? Not biased at all.

The results are from Kaiser polling. Are you suggesting that that's a leftist organization?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:04 am**

Belmaria wrote:
Xeng He wrote:Well there's this...

An article written by a leftist accusing rightists of misinforming the public? Not biased at all.

It wasn't accusing anyone of misinforming the public, just saying they were misinformed.

But if you want a non-partisan source, you can have that too.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:04 am**

Belmaria wrote:The same way PPP is averaged in as well, considering they are a leftist polling group?

Do you understand mathematically how averaging works?

NationStates

US Government Shutdown? Not any more!